76 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

There used to be a time when lights could actually face the remaining 4 mechs in a match and actually have a chance to win the match so long as the stars lined up right. However due to the multiple changes in the games, most lights life expectancy is much smaller.

Modes is part of the problem and here is why. For any light to be truly effective it has to be able to fight on its own terms. Hit and run for the most part and to rely on the only defense we really have and that is maneuverability.

However modes like Domination force lights into basically a kill zone that we can not really survive especially if our opponents are not really damaged. Now I have no idea what can be done to fix this.

So please critique this and let me know if there was anything else I could have done to change this outcome?

[Sjorpha]

I think it's fine that different game modes favor different mechs and weight classes so i don't really see this a problem.

[Tarogato]

Stop aiming at mechs and start aiming at components. Lower your sensitivity if you have to, it looks like it might be too high.

Don't facetank. You did this several times and ate it to the CT. Twist more.

Don't face your rear CT straight at the enemy and run away in a straight line. You did this several times, and ate it to the CT.

Don't split fire with that build. Always always always alpha. (The only scenario you should split fire is when you know an enemy is one-touch and you only need a scrape to finish the component off.)

Clean up your peeking technique. Use your jumpjets to halt momentum so that you can return to cover more quickly. Also, reverse your leg direction sometimes. Back out of cover so that you can use the faster throttle of W to accelerate into cover after firing your shot. Don't be exposed for any longer than you have to.

You spent too much time on the north side of the map after your last teammate died. This gave the enemy more opportunity to shoot you in the place you haven't moved from in a while. You should have abandoned and jumped the gap across theta sooner, would have saved you from taking some unnecessary damage.

Don't expose unnecessarily. If you can't get all weapons on target, don't expose. A few times you were retreating you exposed to the enemy without facing them, and ate unnecessary damage.

Awareness. At the end when you were up top you were getting shot by something that was coming from the direction of theta, but you didn't even bother seeking cover from it until you already had taken a lot of damage from it. You should have dropped down and abandoned the location. You could have gone back to the north, because you knew that three of the four enemies were caged up in the south west, and you could have isolated what turned out to be a somewhat hurt EBJ.

[MrMadguy]

Starvation tactic is illegal in almost all games. Most game modes have anti-passive-playing objective, that prevents Lights from taking other team as hostage. It's Skirmish only, that allows this crap, as devs are too lazy to implement engagement timer there.

[aardappelianen]

Nah the real problem for lights on domination is urge to be the first to circle and leave a gap between them and their team, if you are the only fast light in a drop then your better off letting the enemy team cap 20 seconds so your entire team arrives as a unitt
The timer usually doesn't start running again until one team is beaten down so those 20 second won't have mattered in most cases

Edit: i watched the video and im like wth man that was a great game for you, it was quite clear that you were able to deal with the remaining mechs for a long time
All it would've taken for you win was to keep outsmarting those mechs with you greater movement, catching them off guard so you can aim properly

all you need to do is git gudder

Edited by aardappelianen, 07 April 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Well, no lights can't outmanouver completely the guns on their opponents. Even when you can do it well, enemy will fire you few times. It will quickly wear out of health.

Lights real defence is bigger friendly mechs because those hostile enemy mechs prefer to shoot easier to hit targets. Those have a lot longer runtime than outmanouvering the guns of enemies that are aiming at you.


I see no particular problem with domination and lights, more like an advantage. Just because some people on voip will say someone /or some light needs to go to the cirlcle, it's not true. Playing on the outside of circle is just as fine.

Fast light can take advantage of domination as it forces most players to much smaller area. Which is not entirely the domination circle specially on on maps.

1 vs 4 is always really difficult situation unless you are really good player and can effectively outtrade nearly all single opponents.

[Ted Wayz]

Was in that match. With that map a light with jump jets has a huge advantage.

Another reason why this match is a bad example is that our team didn't try and cap and instead chased you in heavies and assaults. Was seriously worried we were going to blow the match because frankly lights are too durable and we were spread all over the map. One mech was cherry all over, mostly isolated and you ignored him. The rest were not in much better shape.

You were in a lot better position to win than you might of thought. GG though.

[Ted Wayz]

Darian DelFord, on 07 April 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

There used to be a time when lights could actually face the remaining 4 mechs in a match and actually have a chance to win the match so long as the stars lined up right.

Stars didn't have to line up when the Spider had broken hit boxes. Saw one pull off a 1 v 6 just by jumping around...in the open. But back then PGI actually bothered to fix hit boxes and the Spider was brought back to earth.

Cheater...I mean Cheetah...same thing. Face tanking taking 3 AC20 shots. PGI doesn't fix hit boxes now so still broken.

Speed lag...broken hit boxes...additional structure and armor such that an AC20 can't leg a light in one shot...

Lights have it good. Enjoy!

Edited by Ted Wayz, 07 April 2018 - 09:53 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Light mechs are by far the most powerful mechs on the battlefield and due how hard it is to actually land damage on a tiny light mech moving at 120-150 kph, require firepower orders of magnitude higher to put than than even your most robust assault mech. In any sort of pack they are devastating and even their presence on the battle field can totally alter the shape of the match. No other class of mech has even remotely to same level of impact on the match as a light mech, if piloted decently well.

This is why I don't have a huge sympathy for light mechs. I own and play probably two dozen variants, maybe even three dozen so understand why light pilots might feel that they are being treated unfairly but when you be objective, look at the bigger picture and take into account a light mechs influence and impact on a match, you really can't call them anything but OP in the grand scheme.

[Nightbird]

Viktor Drake, on 07 April 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

Light mechs are by far the most powerful mechs on the battlefield and due how hard it is to actually land damage on a tiny light mech moving at 120-150 kph, require firepower orders of magnitude higher to put than than even your most robust assault mech. In any sort of pack they are devastating and even their presence on the battle field can totally alter the shape of the match. No other class of mech has even remotely to same level of impact on the match as a light mech, if piloted decently well.

This is why I don't have a huge sympathy for light mechs. I own and play probably two dozen variants, maybe even three dozen so understand why light pilots might feel that they are being treated unfairly but when you be objective, look at the bigger picture and take into account a light mechs influence and impact on a match, you really can't call them anything but OP in the grand scheme.

If you're being objective, lights are the most UP weight class in the game.

https://mwomercs.com...and-suggestion/

[LordNothing]

i tend to think any light that is the last alive at the end of the match didnt work hard enough. also dont use a jenner.

[Exilyth]

The faster team usually has it easier in domination - a fast light grabs the circle, everyone else moves in behind, as soon as a team mate touches the circle, the light can go squirrel and scout.
Only maps I wouldn't do that on are the bowl shaped frozen city (city high ground is a huge advantage) and grim plexus (where sniper hill side can benefit from an F7 push and building side can do the same depending on who is faster).

Unfortunably many teams in QP fail to move out immediately on match start (there's only two places to go: the circle or an advantageous position near it) or are too afraid to get into the circle.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Just a couple thoughts:

1. You were really passive early in the match. If you're running a build with decent range and you can't shoot anyone, you should be relocating to a place where you can--you have the speed and JJs to get you out of bad spots. Ferex, it can be nice to get onto the central platform and then jump back once they start pushing onto it. By the time you got engaged almost a quarter of your team had died, which means fewer distractions and meatshields.

2. You pretty frequently poked before you were ready to fire and poked much farther than you needed to. One of the easiest ways to take damage unnecessarily is exposing more than you have to for longer than you have to. Generally you should be shooting as soon as you accelerate out of cover and accelerating back into cover as the lasers finish their firing cycle.

Also, as others have said, try to twist farther and move in a jankier pattern when running away -- they should need to swipe their aim back and forth and still end up hitting your side as often as your rear.

3. When you're using a hotter build like ERMLas (as opposed to MLas/MPLas/SPLas), leverage the extra range you bought with that heat. A lot of times you went in to brawl at <100m when the enemy had no way of closing with you. That's just giving them more chances to hurt you for no real gain -- it's harder to keep lasers on target while circling at close range, and you'll do full damage out to ~400m anyways. Even with mediums and medium pulses it's usually better to try to fight at the outer edge of their ideal range.

The situation wasn't great, but it was hypothetically winnable. What you were doing with moving between the two edges to string them out and abuse high ground is essentially the right approach there, you just took too much damage both in the process and prior to it.

Again, it's not really a thing where you can point to one specific moment and say "Wow you really ****** up there", just lots of minor engagements where you were less efficient with your armor and heat than you could have been.

Actually, I've got a decent example of what I'm talking about with movement, exposure, and aggression. Just bear in mind that if you're not an asymmetric build you need to expose farther to get your whole alpha out. Is a little old, hence the oblique reference to GaussPPC at the start.

(Skip to ~2:10 to avoid rambling, can't embed URLs with timestamps)

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 07 April 2018 - 02:24 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Use lights that can fight back?

I see so many locust etc players at the end of a match that literally did nothing all match but the odd chase other lights and spot.. as the last mech alive on the team they are useless their firepower is nothing.. yes they are fast woopee..

Use a light with some firepower so if you are the last mech left standing you at least have a chance of winning.. Osiris, urbies, wolfhounds even commandos do ok..

[Alexander of Macedon]

Samial, on 07 April 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

Use lights that can fight back?

I see so many locust etc players at the end of a match that literally did nothing all match but the odd chase other lights and spot.. as the last mech alive on the team they are useless their firepower is nothing.. yes they are fast woopee..

Use a light with some firepower so if you are the last mech left standing you at least have a chance of winning.. Osiris, urbies, wolfhounds even commandos do ok..

Wait, aren't you one of the ones constantly berating lights for killing things instead of holding locks and chasing enemy lights away from assaults?

Also, you're displaying your ignorance of how lights work. 6t of weapons is pretty typical armament for lights. A lot of variants are mostly or totally unplayed because they can only mount 4t of weapons. Something like the WLF-2 that can potentially carry 12t of weapons (but which usually takes 10t for extra heatsinks) is a strong outlier, and a big part of the reason why Wolfhounds are one of the few good chassis left.

Also also, LCTs would be in a better spot if spuds hadn't cried until SPLas got nerfed into the ground.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 07 April 2018 - 05:34 PM.

[Villainy]

Samial, on 07 April 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

Use lights that can fight back?

I see so many locust etc players at the end of a match that literally did nothing all match but the odd chase other lights and spot.. as the last mech alive on the team they are useless their firepower is nothing.. yes they are fast woopee..

Use a light with some firepower so if you are the last mech left standing you at least have a chance of winning.. Osiris, urbies, wolfhounds even commandos do ok..

In QP I'm consistently the last mech alive in my LCTPB or LCT1V, and not for lack of trying. I'll end matches with 300-500 damage, a couple kills and 6+ assists. My LCT is certainly viable.

Also, skirmish is the worst game for lights, whereas objectives are where lights shine. Who tf cares if I barely get kills if I cap the enemy's base or finish the game 750 to 200? This mindset that all light mechs MUST perform like a piranha is total cancer.

[Jackal Noble]

I'm sorry, but what does the title mean?
Lights themselves?
Light pilots?
Is aggravated meant to be aggravating?

[Deathlike]

The best Light play is when intelligence is involved. The thing is, the disparity in intelligence between most Light mechs and their targets determines surviveability... that is when a Light pilot makes a horrible mistake against a competent opponent, they are usually screwed. When the opponent is not as intelligent, it tends to be opponent's mistake as to why they died (and occasionally vocalize their failure despite ironically letting everyone know they are not a good a player they think they are). Mistakes in Light play are always plentiful - the skill and awareness of the opponent always dictates how long a Light survives.

Lights are not remotely a threat when you are aware of your surroundings. Most people don't think in/of their positioning (they don't ask the question: can something/a Light be behind you?).

It doesn't matter - the vocalizing players that die by Lights will complain they got touched by the mean old Light, while the good Light pilots still get vaporized by the likes of EmP and others. I guess that's "working as intended".

[JediPanther]

Not much lights can do in dom mode. Get the hell out of that kill zone asap mostly. Go blow the gens or go back stab a lone mech. 4 to 1 you did pretty good. As for all that lights op I call bs on a lot of it. Many crying bout it have never piloted a light. You mess up in a light you most likely are dead. That's how it is for ones with is xls.

[Darian DelFord]

First time I have played a Jenner since just after the Skill tree update as well as the rescale. They are still trash for the most part. Could have played better but I had no illusion that I was going to be able to pull this out not with a Jenner. I used the ER's vs the Med's for the extra range and frankly 6 ML's even on a Jenner is no where near as strong as it used to be, the range difference just adds a bit more protection to the Jenner

I'm aggravated for a few reasons.... the lack of JJ power for lights depsite having the max number. Used to be a time that lights could jump more easily... but the whiners got them nerfed because the heavies were doing bad things with them. I'm aggravated at the Rescale.... my god the Jenner is the size of a tank and handles like one even being maxed out in mobility. Im aggravated at the continual nerfing of lights for no damned reason other than players want EZ mode against them. And I'm aggravated at the mode. A mode which puts lights at a severe disadvantage because we have to stay within a 400 to 500 meter circle that we usually can not maneuver in. Had this been assault or skirmish or hell even conquest, the odds would have been a bit better.

Just tired of people bitching and moaning who really have no idea what they are talking about.