76 replies to this topic

[Xiphias]

Ted Wayz, on 07 April 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

Was seriously worried we were going to blow the match because frankly lights are too durable and we were spread all over the map.

You think that Jenners are too durable? Have you played Jenners?

Ted Wayz, on 07 April 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

Speed lag...broken hit boxes...additional structure and armor such that an AC20 can't leg a light in one shot...

So you think one shot from a single weapon should be able to leg (basically kill) a fresh light. First, even without any additional structure, armor, or hitreg issues all lights have more than 20 HPs of combined armor/structure. If you want to leg lights in one shot should we removed doubled armor values from all mechs (they benefit heavy mechs far more than lights). You seem less interested in a balanced game and more on being able to easy kill lights.

Viktor Drake, on 07 April 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

Light mechs are by far the most powerful mechs on the battlefield and due how hard it is to actually land damage on a tiny light mech moving at 120-150 kph, require firepower orders of magnitude higher to put than than even your most robust assault mech. In any sort of pack they are devastating and even their presence on the battle field can totally alter the shape of the match. No other class of mech has even remotely to same level of impact on the match as a light mech, if piloted decently well.

This is why I don't have a huge sympathy for light mechs. I own and play probably two dozen variants, maybe even three dozen so understand why light pilots might feel that they are being treated unfairly but when you be objective, look at the bigger picture and take into account a light mechs influence and impact on a match, you really can't call them anything but OP in the grand scheme.

That's just not true and the numbers show it. Lights consistently underperform compared to other weight classes. You'll also notice that in FW PGI balances by increasing the tonnage. In group queue large groups get less tonnage. If as you say lights were the most powerful class you'd see people taking lights instead of heavies and assaults.

The better your opponents get the weaker light mechs become. The reason assault mechs die quickly is in part because they are a higher threat so they get focused sooner. Watch comp matches, outside of capping most teams are going to focus down heavy targets first because they are the most dangerous. Also watch how fast a light mech can be killed when it's being focused on by people that can shoot.

LordNothing, on 07 April 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

i tend to think any light that is the last alive at the end of the match didnt work hard enough. also dont use a jenner.

While that's sometimes true (spider running around the corner of the map) in general it's not. Lights become better the longer they stay up. Since lights don't have the raw firepower to easily punch through fresh targets. As a match wears on mechs become damaged and this is where lights really shine. The ability to pick off crit mechs and control objectives is what lights are good at. Good light pilots will focus on staying alive because you can win a 4v1 against crit mechs if you play well and still move fast enough not to lose on caps.

Samial, on 07 April 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

Use lights that can fight back?

I see so many locust etc players at the end of a match that literally did nothing all match but the odd chase other lights and spot.. as the last mech alive on the team they are useless their firepower is nothing.. yes they are fast woopee..

Use a light with some firepower so if you are the last mech left standing you at least have a chance of winning.. Osiris, urbies, wolfhounds even commandos do ok..

Jenners have reasonable firepower to fight back. If you're referring to Locusts the 1E and 3M both have enough hardpoints to carry sufficient weapons. The main issue of both is that they are squishy. Commandos are actually the weak ones on the firepower side, they make up for it by being very durable though.

Regardless of the light you should be putting fire on the enemy team the whole match (ideally on the heavier targets first).

Villainy, on 07 April 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

In QP I'm consistently the last mech alive in my LCTPB or LCT1V, and not for lack of trying. I'll end matches with 300-500 damage, a couple kills and 6+ assists. My LCT is certainly viable.

Also, skirmish is the worst game for lights, whereas objectives are where lights shine. Who tf cares if I barely get kills if I cap the enemy's base or finish the game 750 to 200? This mindset that all light mechs MUST perform like a piranha is total cancer.

The game is about killing mechs, playing pure cap objectives is boring. While not all mechs should necessarily perform like the Piranha, all mechs should be able to fight. The locust is a capable fighter and has the speed to deal with objectives (though that shouldn't be the focus). After losing its super quirks the 1V just really isn't a very good mech anymore. It's just worse than the 1E, 3M, and PB. Too little damage output is overall being a detriment to your team. One ERLL or LPL just isn't enough firepower to contribute a lot in the average match and other mechs can go just as fast with better weapons. Skirmish isn't actually that bad of a mode for lights, you can absolutely pick off damaged mechs against the odds at the end of the match if played well. You are rarely going to win assault on caps so it's basically skirmish.

The worst modes for lights are escort and incursion because they have turrets and towers/radar sweeps that counter lights. Also, the objects both favor high DPS which is where lights are weakest compared to the other classes.

Darian DelFord, on 07 April 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

First time I have played a Jenner since just after the Skill tree update as well as the rescale. They are still trash for the most part. Could have played better but I had no illusion that I was going to be able to pull this out not with a Jenner. I used the ER's vs the Med's for the extra range and frankly 6 ML's even on a Jenner is no where near as strong as it used to be, the range difference just adds a bit more protection to the Jenner

I'm aggravated for a few reasons.... the lack of JJ power for lights depsite having the max number. Used to be a time that lights could jump more easily... but the whiners got them nerfed because the heavies were doing bad things with them. I'm aggravated at the Rescale.... my god the Jenner is the size of a tank and handles like one even being maxed out in mobility. Im aggravated at the continual nerfing of lights for no damned reason other than players want EZ mode against them. And I'm aggravated at the mode. A mode which puts lights at a severe disadvantage because we have to stay within a 400 to 500 meter circle that we usually can not maneuver in. Had this been assault or skirmish or hell even conquest, the odds would have been a bit better.

Just tired of people bitching and moaning who really have no idea what they are talking about.

While I think it could use some buffs the Jenner isn't in a terrible spot. Its real key is that it's really manuverable (only beaten by things like the Locust and Commando) compared to other lights, the best of any 35 tonner I think. You have to use that manuverability to make up for how easy to hit you are. ERMLs are a good fit for pug queue because the extra range lets you be more flexible. Putting max JJs on the Jenner is a mistake, the tonnage is better spent on having more heatsinks.

Domination really isn't a big problem for lights, sure it limits you to some extent, but it can also work to your advantage. The biggest thing to keep in mind is the fact that you don't actually have to stand in the circle. As long as you are putting damage into the circle the timer won't go down. You can use this fact to stay outside the circle and put glancing shots in while they are forced to stay inside of it. If there are lots of them left they can chase you while staying in the circle which can make it harder, but it also means you may have more targets in the circle to shoot.

Here's an example of a domination match I had tonight that myself and the cheetah carried back from 2v6.


I actually died in that match due to being rammed (Commando was out of ammo and I had stripped the other two mechs). My point being that both the Jenner and domination can work fine if you play them right. I actually prefer domination to assault as a light at the end of a match because you have a much larger area to work in. In assault the base locations are usually quite sheltered to the point where it can be hard to push targets off the base.

As to feedback on your match specifically. You seem to focus too much on being on the high ground on the sides. You start on one side, run more or less straight to the other side, and then run back. On that map the domination circle extends to the low ground on either side so you can run around the center and use that area to hold the circle. That can make your movements a lot less predictable. Really focus on working the angles to your advantage so that you minimize the enemies you have to fight at the same time.

As others have mentioned your situational awareness could use improvement. One thing in particular you did is rush your shot on that annihilator. You didn't have a readout and if you had you would have seen he was basically fresh. If you'd focused on something like the EBJ you could have easily taken the torso. That said, it was a hard situation to be in, I'm not sure you could have pulled it back, but being more unpredictable in your movements, being more situationally aware (mentally tracking damage locations too), and picking targets better could have helped.

I don't generally record so I don't have a lot of videos, but this one partially demonstrates the area you should be using. I have a range advantage and this is back when the Locust 3M was super agile, but it shows how much space you have to work with (more if you have JJs) and how you can use that space to control the circle even without being inside of it. If you have the time you can afford to run in and out of the circle to get away even if it costs you a few seconds. In this specific case I'm using it to get range, but it works for other things too.

The advantage of the sides (with MLs or ERMLs) is that you can get just far enough out to take a shot over the top and you can close in to the edge to avoid return fire. If they drop off the top you can maneuver around the side and they have to jump back up or go around. If you stay where you were they can basically sit in the middle and take pot shots at you on either side. Taking the long way can drag mechs out letting you isolate them or at least get a free shot or two.

[evilauthor]

I've played Lights and I've watched good players in Lights. From that, I've concluded I'm **** as a Light pilot.

Honestly, I have no idea how good pilots in speed demon Lights do it. Running at high speed and torso twisting like crazy means their field of view is literally all over the place such that I lose complete situational awareness just watching these guys do that AND fight effectively, sometimes downing three or four other mechs before they go down. I can't even understand how they know where they're going, let alone aiming and hitting the other guy with anything resembling accuracy, but I've seen them do just that.

I recall one Incursion match where the last guy standing was in a Locust facing FIVE guys in Mediums to Assaults in various states of damage. He went on to kill FOUR of them, and the only reason he failed to kill the last one (a Medium hiding on top of a building) and win the match was because he ran out of SRM ammo (he only had SRM launchers).

[Xiphias]

evilauthor, on 07 April 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

Honestly, I have no idea how good pilots in speed demon Lights do it. Running at high speed and torso twisting like crazy means their field of view is literally all over the place such that I lose complete situational awareness just watching these guys do that AND fight effectively, sometimes downing three or four other mechs before they go down. I can't even understand how they know where they're going, let alone aiming and hitting the other guy with anything resembling accuracy, but I've seen them do just that.

Aside from knowing the maps well (which is important) a huge part of piloting a light is situational awareness. One thing you need to be able to do is take a quick glance, gauge where things are, and then remember that information as you look away.

Basically, if I look in front of me and know the ground is clear I can look away to scan for targets. If I see a target I determine if it's looking at me or not and usually try to break line of sight. I remember where the cover is, how much of a sight line they had on me and then look back where I'm going to get to cover. Glancing back and forth as needed. Similarly, if I see a mech going one way around a corner I can anticipate when and where they will pop up on the other side.

Another key skill for lights (any mech really) is memorizing where targets are damaged. If I fight another light early in the match and open up their right leg I remember that there's a Cheetah with an open right leg. If I'm fighting something else and that Cheetah runs up, I instantly know to shoot it in the right leg (and usually will switch my fire to do so), even without targeting. Cycle targets when you can and make mental note of where they are damaged. Knowing that will save you a lot of time later and will let you quickly kill targets while otherwise engaged.

Accuracy is just mechanical skill, that like anything else takes time and practice to build. A lot of players have their mouse sensitivity set way to high so it's something worth checking if you haven't already reduced it. It helps a lot with aiming.

[Mystere]

LordNothing, on 07 April 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

dont use a jenner.

[Lykaon]

Darian DelFord, on 07 April 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

Well...

My light piloting technique is radicaly different from what I see in this vid.

I utilize my mech's speed and agility to harass and distract the enemy keeping as many enemy mechs either chasing me (away from the battle lines) or twitchy as all hell watching their backs (distracted from focusing 100% on my team mates)

Once my team has a kill lead ( from fighting a distracted enemy) I switch over to "vulture" mode and secure kills on mauled enemy mechs trying to avoid front line fire.


Option two is I play as a rear guard for the first quarter to half of a match to protect my team's fatties from enemy harassers and then switch to harassing the enemy after we have taken out the enemy light harassers ourselves. This choice is mostly based on map and mode.

I also avoid the huge walking CT the Jenner is these days ( I havn't piloted a Jenner since shortly after rescale) And mainly use Wolfhounds (grinner or WF-2) or Arctic Cheetahs (various builds ) Raven Huginn (it's structure is quirked to the point that it's a pocket medium like an Urbie)

[PocketYoda]

When i play lights i 99% of the time back up heavies and Assaults.. Its why i use things like urbies and such i enjoy being their little bodyguards and such.. if things attack them i do my best to keep them alive so the team can win..

These light players that start off and run across the map right into the enemy doing the circle jerk with a team of other lights and become the first to die... Yeah that i don't get.. Not fun for me and makes no sense..

I see those lights nearly every match..

[Xiphias]

Samial, on 08 April 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

When i play lights i 99% of the time back up heavies and Assaults.. Its why i use things like urbies and such i enjoy being their little bodyguards and such.. if things attack them i do my best to keep them alive so the team can win..

These light players that start off and run across the map right into the enemy doing the circle jerk with a team of other lights and become the first to die... Yeah that i don't get.. Not fun for me and makes no sense..

I see those lights nearly every match..

While staying with the assaults can work for slower lights like the Urby, it really wastes to potential of faster lights. Fast lights should rarely be immediately with their team, rather they should be a grid or two away getting flank shots. Close enough than they can return to the team, but far enough away that they split the attention away from the main body.

The lights than run towards the enemy and die right away are just bad. I run straight at the enemy, but I've played long enough to usually know just how close I can get without overextending myself. Paying attention is key though, if you don't catch the light lance sneaking up on you and egress before they get in range you're going to have a bad time.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Samial, on 08 April 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

When i play lights i 99% of the time back up heavies and Assaults.. Its why i use things like urbies and such i enjoy being their little bodyguards and such.. if things attack them i do my best to keep them alive so the team can win..

These light players that start off and run across the map right into the enemy doing the circle jerk with a team of other lights and become the first to die... Yeah that i don't get.. Not fun for me and makes no sense..

I see those lights nearly every match..

You know a little about piloting light mechs, just like those who "run across the map right into the enemy" all the time. Screening your fatties is easiest way to play "lights" like Urbanmech, Panther, Adder, Kit Fox and any other sub 130~ kph. Its okay. You need more practice and expirience to play aggressive and solo(ganking, duel other lights at vast maps, coordinated wolfpacking, narcing and sneaking behind whole enemy team) when most of ur allies can not help you.

[evilauthor]

Xiphias, on 07 April 2018 - 09:52 PM, said:

Aside from knowing the maps well (which is important) a huge part of piloting a light is situational awareness. One thing you need to be able to do is take a quick glance, gauge where things are, and then remember that information as you look away.

Basically, if I look in front of me and know the ground is clear I can look away to scan for targets. If I see a target I determine if it's looking at me or not and usually try to break line of sight. I remember where the cover is, how much of a sight line they had on me and then look back where I'm going to get to cover. Glancing back and forth as needed. Similarly, if I see a mech going one way around a corner I can anticipate when and where they will pop up on the other side.

I get that. My point is that the really good Light pilots are glancing around so fast that I get dizzy just looking through their cockpit window. They spend like one or two frames looking in one direction before spinning to look at another, and they do it so fast that I can't even tell which way they're going let alone see how they navigate around obstacles.

If I tried to do what these guys do (and I have tried), I'd be forever running into random obstacles because they're not registering in my "quick glance" to see where I'm going. And these mechs move fast enough that these obstacles might not have been there when I was looking.

Hell, I have trouble avoiding terrain obstacles when I'm just looking straight forward while running at full speed and not torso twisting at all.

[JediPanther]

evilauthor, on 08 April 2018 - 07:32 AM, said:

I get that. My point is that the really good Light pilots are glancing around so fast that I get dizzy just looking through their cockpit window. They spend like one or two frames looking in one direction before spinning to look at another, and they do it so fast that I can't even tell which way they're going let alone see how they navigate around obstacles.

If I tried to do what these guys do (and I have tried), I'd be forever running into random obstacles because they're not registering in my "quick glance" to see where I'm going. And these mechs move fast enough that these obstacles might not have been there when I was looking.

Hell, I have trouble avoiding terrain obstacles when I'm just looking straight forward while running at full speed and not torso twisting at all.

Being a light does take a lot of practice and something akin to a sports player's dedication to getting better by doing. There's far too many "little things" that make a really great light pilot to type up. I could write up a small book about how I pilot my lights and it will be as noted above completely different to how someone else might pilot a light.

Four of the main factors of how you will learn a light are:
1. Speed.
2. Clan light or IS
3. Engine type for IS. This directly related to Speed.
4. ECM or lack of.

1A. Speed is life. Literately in any light pilot's case. The faster you can move the more you are able to correct mistakes and live such as suddenly finding all of the enemy alpha lance on a cap point and you are the only friendly after it. Time to run away while zig zaging and launching a uav.

2A. Clan mechs are generally slower under 100kph until they have speed tweak. They (generally) have more weapons and firepower to compensate for this.Slow sub 100kph mechs should act as satellite weapons around assaults then vulture during brawls as they are less focus fired on when next to the bigger target/threat.

3A. The engine you use in an IS mech directly affects it's speed and survival. XL will give you maximum speed which you will want. As always with XL torso twist like mad under fire to avoid st death. Light engines don't cause instant death on side torso loss, their drawback is weighting more than XL and loss of much needed speed;they are the halfway point between XL and STD. STDs weigh a lot, don't instant die on torso loss and will cripple the one thing that makes lights worth taking robbing them of their speed. Very rare on IS lights and mostly seen on troll builds.

4A. ECM. It can be great thinking that it will make you 'stealth-y.' In reality it just makes you harder to spot and slows lock-on time for lock-on weapons. As one of the lights who learned to pilot Jenners before the Raven 3L added ECM to the game I find far too many new-er pilots rely on ECM far too much. Learn to use a light mech without ecm then go to a light with ecm or you'll form really bad piloting mistakes. I find myself making them from time to time from using 3L when ECM was god mode.

ECM does let you get around the map easier and within optimal weapon range. It's just as easily countered by an experienced pilot who has situational awareness. The first things I look for when I think an ECm mech is around? The ecm jamming icon on the right of my HUD then I look for damage direction indicator (the you just got shot red bar that flashes) and I check my armor paper dool to see if any armor just took damage. Don't rely on the sound fxs of weapon fire hitting your mech. sometimes they fail to play or on HPG are very low volume drowned out by a team mate's weapon fire.

If I haven't taken damage but suspect an ECM still about I launch a uav if I have one, switch to thermal and night modes to see if it might be stealth-ed (which can be spotted fairly easy if it is moving as only mechs move not buildings or map features) or look for the tattle tale of laser fire which would point directly to the ECM's last location it fired from. It remains a mystery why people think er lls are good sniping weapons on ecm lights. Thanks for waving that here-i-am sign buddy.

[Xiphias]

JediPanther, on 08 April 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

As one of the lights who learned to pilot Jenners before the Raven 3L added ECM to the game I find far too many new-er pilots rely on ECM far too much. Learn to use a light mech without ecm then go to a light with ecm or you'll form really bad piloting mistakes. I find myself making them from time to time from using 3L when ECM was god mode.

I think the Jenner makes a good training mech for learning how to be actually good as a light mech pilot. It's fast and agile with good hardpoints so you can learn how to run around and shoot. More importantly, it's a big easy to hit target so it will force you to use cover or die. Playing the Jenner you have to use terrain and agility to the maximum advantage. I agree that ECM will let you get away with a lot more mistakes and can make you sloppy, particularly when you actually have to play against really good pilots who will spot you ECM or not.

[JediPanther]

Xiphias, on 08 April 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

I think the Jenner makes a good training mech for learning how to be actually good as a light mech pilot. It's fast and agile with good hardpoints so you can learn how to run around and shoot. More importantly, it's a big easy to hit target so it will force you to use cover or die. Playing the Jenner you have to use terrain and agility to the maximum advantage. I agree that ECM will let you get away with a lot more mistakes and can make you sloppy, particularly when you actually have to play against really good pilots who will spot you ECM or not.

I agree. The IS jenner along with the spiders and commandos are good light mechs to learn on as they all have 130 plus speed with spiders and coms hitting the max. Those mechs are far more easier and forgiving compared to the hard mode* of the locusts. They have slightly more armor to take a bit more damage and are not an outlier such as the urban mech with max armor and tree armor buffs up to a medium's level of armor. Fun Fact: Panthers and Wolfhounds have just as much armor making them the 'tank-iest' IS lights when combined with an lfe.

*hard mode: Only learn to master the Locusts when you've gotten fairly good in other lights...Locusts have only 10 armor side torsos when you evenly armor them and nearly anything can one-shot it with the isxl. Only it's size and speed make it seem OP. You can drop some speed for lfe but I prefer XLs. If it were the size of Jenner no one would probably use it. I've been killed many times in mine and own/use them all minus the (c) variant of the 1E. Even got and posted my first Ace of Spades with the 1E.

[Nightbird]

JediPanther, on 08 April 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

*hard mode: Only learn to master the Locusts when you've gotten fairly good in other lights...Locusts have only 10 armor side torsos when you evenly armor them and nearly anything can one-shot it with the isxl.

Please 18/2 them and then add survival tree. When running away, turn sideways so your arm is point back, always zig-zag

[JediPanther]

Nightbird, on 08 April 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

Please 18/2 them and then add survival tree. When running away, turn sideways so your arm is point back, always zig-zag

Why? Do you face tank? Mobility on max and only 18 survival needed for most the armor nodes. 2 rear armor you must be using your bugs as mini snipers. I run mine as back stabers and anti-light hunters so taking friendly fire and not so friendly fire is expected. 10 front armor is more than enough to get you 2-3 kills easy.

The only need for a locust to really run away is when an enemy wolf pack is after it. And you should have learned to zig and zag long before you even looked at a locust in the store from playing other lights.

[Nightbird]

I aim for 6-8 kills per match, 4 solo, so I need that front armor.

[dario03]

JediPanther, on 08 April 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Why? Do you face tank? Mobility on max and only 18 survival needed for most the armor nodes. 2 rear armor you must be using your bugs as mini snipers. I run mine as back stabers and anti-light hunters so taking friendly fire and not so friendly fire is expected. 10 front armor is more than enough to get you 2-3 kills easy.

The only need for a locust to really run away is when an enemy wolf pack is after it. And you should have learned to zig and zag long before you even looked at a locust in the store from playing other lights.

you can play those roles and still front load your armor.

[Wil McCullough]

JediPanther, on 08 April 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Why? Do you face tank? Mobility on max and only 18 survival needed for most the armor nodes. 2 rear armor you must be using your bugs as mini snipers. I run mine as back stabers and anti-light hunters so taking friendly fire and not so friendly fire is expected. 10 front armor is more than enough to get you 2-3 kills easy.

The only need for a locust to really run away is when an enemy wolf pack is after it. And you should have learned to zig and zag long before you even looked at a locust in the store from playing other lights.

It's a "meta" decision. Basically, you're expecting to nibble on the butts of stragglers which means there won't be enemies behind you. After all, you're supposed to be behind the last guy. In that case, the only incoming fire would be from your front as the guy tries to fend you off.

If there's a need to retreat, the locust's "apache" shape means that you can twist to spread damage using the frontal side torsos, so front loading your armor would be the best decision.

I actually think it's possible to run the locust with zero back armor. You die to half-decent laser burns anyway. May as well put it all on the front so at least you're less vulnerable from one direction - the one you fight from.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 08 April 2018 - 12:11 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Darian DelFord, on 07 April 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

I'm aggravated for a few reasons.... the lack of JJ power for lights depsite having the max number. Used to be a time that lights could jump more easily... but the whiners got them nerfed because the heavies were doing bad things with them.

Jump jets are a flawless example of how badly Paul failed to understand the game he was building MWO from.

Rather than nerfing fire-while-airborne (period), he nerfed jump jet mobility. Worse, he had no idea that jump jets were linked to engine rating, so we get weird outliers like a chassis that can mount 12 JJ but still use a 100-rated engine if you wanted to be that kind of silly.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...bc72738ec3a1f89

(This would be blatantly illegal in tabletop, but then you'd need to have a 360-rated engine to get 12 JJs on a Spider, which MWO prevents it from mounting to begin with.)

[Xiphias]

JediPanther, on 08 April 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

I agree. The IS jenner along with the spiders and commandos are good light mechs to learn on as they all have 130 plus speed with spiders and coms hitting the max. Those mechs are far more easier and forgiving compared to the hard mode* of the locusts.

*hard mode: Only learn to master the Locusts when you've gotten fairly good in other lights...Locusts have only 10 armor side torsos when you evenly armor them and nearly anything can one-shot it with the isxl. Only it's size and speed make it seem OP. You can drop some speed for lfe but I prefer XLs. If it were the size of Jenner no one would probably use it. I've been killed many times in mine and own/use them all minus the (c) variant of the 1E. Even got and posted my first Ace of Spades with the 1E.

I think the Commando is a bit too tanky to be a trainer mech, it can teach you bad habits against easier opponents. Similarly, against weaker opponents the Locust/Commando can let you get away with things you shouldn't because people are bad at aiming. You can speed tank in a Locust, you can't really do that in a Jenner, that's why I think it's better.

JediPanther, on 08 April 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Why? Do you face tank? Mobility on max and only 18 survival needed for most the armor nodes. 2 rear armor you must be using your bugs as mini snipers. I run mine as back stabers and anti-light hunters so taking friendly fire and not so friendly fire is expected. 10 front armor is more than enough to get you 2-3 kills easy.

The only need for a locust to really run away is when an enemy wolf pack is after it. And you should have learned to zig and zag long before you even looked at a locust in the store from playing other lights.

As for running a 10/10 split, you absolutely shouldn't be doing that. I run max/near max agility and close to max structure tree (throw the rest in cooling).

If you are playing your job right you shouldn't be getting shot in the back. If you are in a situation where mechs have a clean line on your back you probably messed up your positioning. Even if you are backstabbing you should be picking the target that's in the back and doesn't have someone covering it. As for the anti-light role. If you go 1v1 with another light and you've 10/10 split your armor, you're just asking to get front cored, that's not a fight you can win against a good pilot with a front loaded split.

If you're regularly taking a lot of team damage to your back it means that you're getting into bad positions and not keeping clear fire lines. Ideally, you're going to be on the opposite side of your target as your team so any FF would hit your front armor. The Locust has a wide yaw angle so you can effectively shield your rear torsos just using torso twist. If you're dying from the back a lot it indicates piloting errors that you should fix, not something to be compensated for by stripping front armor. Not everyone should run a full 18/2, but 10/10 is way too much. I wouldn't go past 16/4 or at very most 15/5.

As for running away, there are plenty of situations where a Locust should run away, being in a position where you're likely to get shot in the back is one of them.

Listen to Nightbird, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to lights.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Xiphias, on 08 April 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

If you are playing your job right you shouldn't be getting shot in the back. If you are in a situation where mechs have a clean line on your back you probably messed up your positioning. Even if you are backstabbing you should be picking the target that's in the back and doesn't have someone covering it. As for the anti-light role. If you go 1v1 with another light and you've 10/10 split your armor, you're just asking to get front cored, that's not a fight you can win against a good pilot with a front loaded split.

True but front loading armor also carries risks. For example a Piranha, Commando or Flea can all move fast enough to get and stay behind your Locust and one or two shot it from behind.

A brawling locust like the 1M or 3S also needs a lot of back armor to survive a knife fight in the middle of an enemy team. In order to get in and finish off wounded mechs in the back line often requires running through or past the front line and opening yourself up to rear shots. You simply don't have the time in clutch matches to make an end round around the map to get into ideal backstabbing position every time. You need to run in and kill as fast as possible before your team collapses.

A lot of this comes down to play style. Some light pilots are good at peeking and poking so front loading armor works best. Others tend to get alphaed in the face when they try that so they prefer the drive by laser slashing or SRM bomber style of gameplay where you need more back armor to survive.

I remember having a conversation with Wispsy years ago, where we agreed that the most dangerous time for a light mech is not the attack run into an enemy team, but actually the extraction phase on the way out. It may seem counterintuitive that you're most at risk when you're running away rather than attacking, but that's when you've lost the element of surprise and the maximum number of enemies have seen you and are shooting at you.

So you can't necessarily skimp back armor. Even in a light.