182 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Prototelis, on 24 December 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

MUH ASSULT!

MUH JENNERS!!!!!

[MrMadguy]

Bush Hopper, on 24 December 2018 - 02:42 PM, said:

These people will never admit that their aim, positioning, awareness of their surroundings etc is to blame because they cannot handle those mechs.

It is much easier to cry on the forum than admit that sometimes you made mistakes and simply have to get better. And this comes from someone with mediocre aiming skills


What makes me chuckle is that I see now and then matches with 6 assaults. I cannot remember if I have ever seen a match with 6 lights on one team - especially outside an event. Considering that people gravitate the most powerful stuff in a pvp environment this says all, plus the queue numbers.

Standard misconception when some players try to justify OPness of their 'Mechs. They just say, that it's not their 'Mechs, that are OP, but their skill, that is so high. "Piranha isn't OP. I'm just sooooooooo skilled." Well. Our game has matchmaker, so we should have equal skills. At least on average. Shouldn't we?

[Brauer]

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

Standard misconception when some players try to justify OPness of their 'Mechs. They just say, that it's not their 'Mechs, that are OP, but their skill, that is so high. "Piranha isn't OP. I'm just sooooooooo skilled." Well. Our game has matchmaker, so we should have equal skills. At least on average. Shouldn't we?

The matchmaker is based on tiers, the tiers are essentially an XP bar, so folks end up in Tier 1 eventually. If the playerbase was large enough, and the matchmaker was based off of something that was a reasonable measure of skill it still wouldn't mean we'd have equal skill, just that skill should be on average more fairly distributed between teams, and potentially that players would be in games with others of more similar skill.

[MrMadguy]

Brauer, on 24 December 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

The matchmaker is based on tiers, the tiers are essentially an XP bar, so folks end up in Tier 1 eventually. If the playerbase was large enough, and the matchmaker was based off of something that was a reasonable measure of skill it still wouldn't mean we'd have equal skill, just that skill should be on average more fairly distributed between teams, and potentially that players would be in games with others of more similar skill.

Anyway, it's also about saying "ALL players, who play Piranhas, are skilled, and ALL players, who play other 'Mechs - are noobs". This just reminds me Paladins back in WotLK. "Paladins aren't OP, it's players, who play them, who are so skilled". You know, Having lower entry skill threshold - is part of being OP. I.e. even if something is balanced in terms of power, but requires much lower skill to be played and much higher skill to be countered - it's still OP, you know.

Edited by MrMadguy, 24 December 2018 - 08:19 PM.

[Papaspud]

It is OP in the right hands, it has it's weaknesses, but the ability to kill quickly is unmatched- especially for 20 tons.

[MrMadguy]

Papaspud, on 24 December 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

It is OP in the right hands, it has it's weaknesses, but the ability to kill quickly is unmatched- especially for 20 tons.

So again, you try to say, that all Piranhas, I've ever met in my life, were in "right" hands? I just can't believe it.

[Brauer]

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

So again, you try to say, that all Piranhas, I've ever met in my life, were in "right" hands? I just can't believe it.

I think the argument actually is that people piranhas are feasting on are either not hitting the piranha, or are making mistakes with their positioning, like wandering off. Piranhas can be countered well with streaks, lasers (especially pulse) and gauss rifles. The things are made of glass, and those first two counters are not high skill.

FWIW outside of when I drop FW on the clan side I hardly ever run piranhas. We're only clan half the time, and if I have the tonnage I prefer an ACW over a piranha, so it's rare that I'm in a fish.

[Y E O N N E]

Playing the fish is like playing the Locust before it got quirks, only with actual firepower and not a piddly little 20.4 damage from 6x SPL at 90 meters. It is incredibly fragile, even poorly-aimed sweeps with Clan ER Mediums hurts a lot. And getting caught in a strike? RIP.

[Weeny Machine]

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

Standard misconception when some players try to justify OPness of their 'Mechs. They just say, that it's not their 'Mechs, that are OP, but their skill, that is so high. "Piranha isn't OP. I'm just sooooooooo skilled." Well. Our game has matchmaker, so we should have equal skills. At least on average. Shouldn't we?

Who says he is op? As I said before I am a mediocre shot and even I can get PIRs off my mech. Here we have your misconception.

I don't even play the PIR 1s regularly. The only thing I can say that the results of the mech are quite unreliable. I have had games where the assaults are plain dumb and I can literally run up to them and DPS their back torso about 4 seconds without them even reacting. I end the game somewhere between 700-1000 damage and 3-5 kills. Then I have games where assaults react at once and I have to run off or risk getting killed or their teammates pay attention and I can't get really close and do 200-400 damage and get a kill by finishing off a damaged opponent (as all lights usually do).

The point is: the PIR 1 is a first-rate potato killer who lives and dies by the mistakes of the opponent. When I read the whines here in this thread, I can imagine what kind of pilots those are.

Also in general when it comes to light mechs. I wouldn't call any mech op which gets hardcountered by streaks (and if you cannot keep a light in your sights for a lock...well, then we do not even need to talk any further), soft countered by ATMs and LRMs and literally one-shot by dual heavy gauss and other alphas. But hey, I bet that's totally ok because it is a light mech, right?

[ShiverMeRivets]

First point, 12 cMGs will be OP on any light chasis. Same goes for 15 laser hardpoints and even more so when they are clantech. It is absolutely stupid that piranahs can even take such loads.

Second point is that piranahs do not get one-shotted. If an enemy fires at you 10 times until he finally hits the tiny ironman suit that is running and pulling 15G turns - that is not 1 shot, that is 10 shot. Being difficult to hit is durability, same as the ability to spread damage. Tiny 20 tonners have good resistance to LB10s for example because the pellets cluster hits 5 of their components while on bigger mechs most of them would hit ansingle component. Armor values do not tell the whole story.

Third, if piranahs are OP why don’t everyone play them? Well, for the same reason we dont all play counter stike - we don’t like that game! 150 kph mechs with very short ttk & ttd are not what I want from a mechwarrior game. I have the Javelin gift mech and an Osiris hero that I recently got in a MC purchse deal. They are good mechs. Both are unskilled and except for a few rounds to check them out, I have no wish to spend my precious playing time on them. If I could sell them for 150 MC (discount mech bay price), I would.

[Weeny Machine]

ShiverMeRivets, on 25 December 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

First point, 12 cMGs will be OP on any light chasis. Same goes for 15 laser hardpoints and even more so when they are clantech. It is absolutely stupid that piranahs can even take such loads.

Second point is that piranahs do not get one-shotted. If an enemy fires at you 10 times until he finally hits the tiny ironman suit that is running and pulling 15G turns - that is not 1 shot, that is 10 shot. Being difficult to hit is durability, same as the ability to spread damage. Tiny 20 tonners have good resistance to LB10s for example because the pellets cluster hits 5 of their components while on bigger mechs most of them would hit ansingle component. Armor values do not tell the whole story.

You aim for the torso of a fast moving light mech and you whine that the shots spread. First of all it is a general mistake against lights. Shoot their legs. Heck, even if half of your damage doesn't hit, the light cannot take much on the legs. A PIR has 16 leg armour.

You see, that's why I brought up stats because people like you who have hardly any experience with lights (sorry, but 33 games in season 23 with a K/D Ratio of 0.81 abd 212 matchscore in those little über light killing machine doesn't convince me of them being op) do not really understand how to counter them.


Also, if you need 10 salvos to destroy or chase off a PIR who needs to stay close to you, we have your problem. Heck, a LB-10X on close range saws through PIRs and if you go for the legs they soon come off.

ShiverMeRivets, on 25 December 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

Third, if piranahs are OP why don’t everyone play them? Well, for the same reason we dont all play counter stike - we don’t like that game! 150 kph mechs with very short ttk & ttd are not what I want from a mechwarrior game. I have the Javelin gift mech and an Osiris hero that I recently got in a MC purchse deal. They are good mechs. Both are unskilled and except for a few rounds to check them out, I have no wish to spend my precious playing time on them. If I could sell them for 150 MC (discount mech bay price), I would.

I am sorry but keep your strawman for you because you basically argue that it is all about taste (but hey, then we do not have a problem here because YOU complain about power levels not taste). We all know that people in a pvp environment gravitate towards the easiest to use most rewarding and performing mechanic/avatar/gun/combo whatever (read: op thing). Now you claim that MWO is the only online game where the broad masses aren't behaving like that? Really?

Edited by Bush Hopper, 25 December 2018 - 12:57 AM.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Bush Hopper, on 25 December 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

You see, that's why I brought up stats because people like you who have hardly any experience with lights (sorry, but 33 games in season 23 with a K/D Ratio of 0.81 abd 212 matchscore in those little über light killing machine doesn't convince me of them being op) do not really understand how to counter them.

Those games are the Javelin and Osiris that I took out for a spin unskilled, as I mentioned in my post. They confirmed to me that I have no desire to play the smaller light mechs, OP or not. If that was the only way to play MWO, I would not be here.

Bush Hopper, on 25 December 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

Also, if you need 10 salvos to destroy or chase off a PIR who needs to stay close to you, we have your problem. Heck, a LB-10X on close range saws through PIRs and if you go for the legs they soon come off.

Theorycraft.
I didn’t say I needed 10, I said that if you need 10 than they are not getting one shotted. From this example you can extend that even if I need on average 2 shots because the first missed, this is not one-shot. You miss the point worse than I miss piranah legs.
Besides, nobody gets 10 shots on a piranah - after the second either the undersized vermin is under your knees, or all your weapons are critted and gone.

Bush Hopper, on 25 December 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

I am sorry but keep your strawman for you because you basically argue that it is all about taste (but hey, then we do not have a problem here because YOU complain about power levels not taste). We all know that people in a pvp environment gravitate towards the easiest to use most rewarding and performing mechanic/avatar/gun/combo whatever (read: op thing). Now you claim that MWO is the only online game where the broad masses aren't behaving like that? Really?

Luckily piranah is not the only OP mech in the game, and piranahs smell like fish.
Yes, I say that enough players dislike the playstyle of the smallest mechs to such a degree, that if any reasonable alternative exists, they will not play a 20 ton mech, OP or not.

[Mystere]

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

Standard misconception when some players try to justify OPness of their 'Mechs. They just say, that it's not their 'Mechs, that are OP, but their skill, that is so high. "Piranha isn't OP. I'm just sooooooooo skilled." Well. Our game has matchmaker, so we should have equal skills. At least on average. Shouldn't we?

He has a point though. It's easier to seek blame somewhere else than look in front of the mirror. Also:

Mystere, on 18 December 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

Remember, online gaming is a "monkey see, monkey do" environment. As such, if lights were really OP, almost

***EVERYONE***

will be playing them.

Edited by Mystere, 25 December 2018 - 07:45 AM.

[bilagaana]

People should lay off the PIR. I don't like getting reamed out by the little f***ers any more than anyone else but at least it's not just more of the same and actually adds some excitement and spice to the game. Good teams still win matches, regardless.

[No, I don't own a PIR and never will, because I know my limitations. Kudos to anyone who can succesfully pilot one.]

[K O Z A K]

Hunting piranhas with a dual heavy gauss victor is like my favourite thing to do in mwo right now, they just go pop, extremely rewarding for some reason, lol

[Khobai]

Nightbird, on 10 April 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

Yes, everyone knows that a 100 ton mech should have 5 times more damage and kills than a 20 ton mech.

of course it should. because youre paying 100 tons of drop weight and not 20 tons.

if that isnt how its supposed to be then drop weight limits shouldnt be a thing.

PGI cant have it both ways. they cant say assaults are supposed to be equal (or as close to equal as possible) to lights and then make assaults cost disproportionately more tonnage than lights. its contradictory and bad for game balance.

if assaults and lights are supposed to be equal they should be treated equally in all ways.

#socialjusticeforassaultmechs


as for the pirahna being OP... its definitely better than other similar tonnage mechs like the locust. thats pretty much undeniable. you cant have one mech outperform all other mechs of similar tonnage or it defeats the purpose of having different mechs. Whether its OP or other lights are UP theres still a very apparent balance problem.

I personally would just like to see ghost heat on 8+ machine guns. pirahnas wouldnt be so bad if they actually had to manage heat for their assault level dps. instead of having no heat which is dumb. worst case scenario you could fire 12 machine guns in short bursts and have to drop down to 8 machine guns when you start to overheat, thats not that bad and it would balance them better.

Edited by Khobai, 25 December 2018 - 10:17 AM.

[dario03]

Khobai, on 25 December 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

of course it should. because youre paying 100 tons of drop weight and not 20 tons.

if that isnt how its supposed to be then drop weight limits shouldnt be a thing.

PGI cant have it both ways. they cant say assaults are supposed to be equal (or as close to equal as possible) to lights and then make assaults cost disproportionately more tonnage than lights. its contradictory and bad for game balance.

if assaults and lights are supposed to be equal they should be treated equally in all ways.

#socialjusticeforassaultmechs

They don't need to have a 100t mech equal 5x20t mechs. All modes are 1 or 4 mechs per player, you don't get extra mechs if you take a lighter mech. Now if all the modes were take as many mechs as you can within a tonnage limit then they could do something like that. But as it is now the big thing with a good light mech is it lets you take more of the even better assault and heavy mechs. So its more of the combo of mechs, like how when the Thunderbolt 5ss was really good you would see 3 or 4 of them in drop decks because they were light enough to make that one of the best combos in the game.

If all mechs were about equal we could get rid of drop weight limits since instead of finding the best combo of mechs within a certain weight we could just take whatever mechs we like.

Edited by dario03, 25 December 2018 - 11:33 AM.

[tutzdes]

Khobai, on 25 December 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

as for the pirahna being OP... its definitely better than other similar tonnage mechs like the locust. thats pretty much undeniable. you cant have one mech outperform all other mechs of similar tonnage or it defeats the purpose of having different mechs. Whether its OP or other lights are UP theres still a very apparent balance problem.

There are only three 20 mechs currently. Locust, Piranha and Flea.

Some Locust variants are bad (3M, 1E, PB are good IMO) and could use another round of buffs.

As for Fleas, I'd take some variants over best Piranhas any time of the day and night. For me Piranha's salt generator is the nicest safety buffer for the Fleas. Piranhas are here, so nobody complains about gorgeous Fleas, profit! Also huge power difference occasionally caused PGI to buff some other lights (I know! I know! but they at least tried!). Viper is much better now too.

"All lights are utter garbage" state is not good for the game.

[Sorbic]

evilauthor, on 10 April 2018 - 08:57 AM, said:

When I read the title, I thought this was going to be a challenge to the complainers to buy and pilot the Piranha for themselves. After all, if Piranhas are OP, shouldn't everyone who wants to be OP themselves be driving one? Ditto for Lights in general.

My favorite/most played mechs are usually pretty subpar overall. Assault slow (or slower when running a STD60 Urbie, laser Treb support Kitfox. I actually do have a Piranha but the only reason I bought it was to run with quad AMS and see how well that worked. I and many others shoot for fun not OP or top of the line.

[Jay Leon Hart]

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

So again, you try to say, that all Piranhas, I've ever met in my life, were in "right" hands? I just can't believe it.

So you say all PIRs you have ever played with have been top kills/damage/match score? Or were most of them actually rubbish and you only remember the ones that kill you / steal your kills?