116 replies to this topic

[Impetus Lux]

Brand new player, just started two days ago and bought my first non-trial mech (Highlander IIC).

I'm an older guy and I have a dgenerative nerve condition. I'm not handicapped by any means, but I'm not great at twitch aiming. When I discovered LRMs were auto-guided, I was happy. I read up about the role of an "LRM boat" with what I could find on google, and built mine based on the info I found here: https://mwo.smurfy-n...17e4b53703e2cce

I try to spread harassment around anyone on the enemy front line, and use the LRM as a "cover fire" mechanic to try and force them to keep their heads down when our front is advancing out of cover. Unless someone's taken charge and is calling targets - in which case I just follow their direction.

The attached picture is a pretty normal representation of how my matches go (now that I have a basic grasp on how to play.) I'm never MVP, but I feel like I'm at least contributing decently.



But 4 different times now, I've gotten comments of "LRM 60 Highlander? Screw you man, you're not helping your team with that nonsense"

The first time I shrugged it off as epeen waving, but the repetitions put me in doubt.

Is LRM really that un-helpful? If it is that bad, is there a different mech or playstyle recommended for someone who's not so talented with the twitchy targeting?

Edited by Lucius Antonius Ursus, 12 April 2018 - 08:18 PM.

[Tesunie]

LRMs have far worse of a reputation than they deserve. If used well and with people willing to stay with their team (rather than out back way behind their allies), they can be effective. They improve in effectiveness the closer to minimum range (180m) they are, and stop being effective outside 600m range (not saying they can't be used out beyond that, but your chances of hitting become... limited...).

I personally love using LRMs, but I don't really boat them. A couple larger launchers paired with significant direct fire weapons tend to be the way I mix them, and I find it effective. With two LPLs on there, I'd say you have plenty of direct fire punch, so you are far from helpless when it comes to that.


Basically, don't sit too far behind your allies and be willing to get your own locks, and all should work out well. If you shoot only indirectly, you hurt your team by not "sharing armor", which is presenting yourself as an additional target.

Most times LRMs are accredited poorly and not entirely due to the weapon system but mostly by how people typically use them. Due to poor typical use of them, LRMs in general have received a poor reputation. Thus, their comments.

[Eisenhorne]

LRMS -can- be very detrimental to your team, for the following reasons:

1) You did 871 damage, but the vast majority of it is spread over the entire enemy instead of one or two specific components. An Annihilator, for example, has 150 CT armor and like 80 torso health. If you do ONLY CT damage to it, you can kill it in 230 damage. If you're firing LRM's, you'll require a LOT more to kill it, because most of your damage will impact arms / side torsos. The damage is spread around.

2) Many people use LRM's very ineffectively. Doing lots of spread damage is still pretty useful, but a lot of people sit back at 900 meters with their LRM's, firing them at anything that is locked for a quarter second. They lose the lock, the LRMs impact harmlessly into the ground. Or the fire on things that are in hard cover, and the LRM's impact on the cover doing nothing.

3) Your team only has 3-4 assault mechs. They have the heaviest armor. If you're behind everyone else, they are taking all the hits, while normally you would draw some fire if you're on the front lines. Your team effectively is acting as your meat shield. Ideally, you want all mechs to take damage equally. When someone takes a few hits, ideally they fall back behind cover, someone else pops out, shoots, takes a few hits, and effectively armor is "shared" across everyone in the fight. If you're behind cover in an assault, the biggest source of that armor is lessened, and everyone else takes more.

4) Some maps effectively hard counter LRM's. If you run them on, like, River City, there are so many buildings, you won't do much damage unless you have speed enough to get a good angle on the enemy and launch around their cover. This means assault mechs are very bad for LRM boats on these maps.

This isn't to say you -can't- use LRM's. I would just suggest that the best use of them is on medium mechs or heavy mechs. They are generally more fragile, so aren't expected to share armor as much. They are faster as well, so they can get into much better firing positions. If you're interested in playing clans, a Mad Dog would be an excellent choice. It's purpose built to fire LRM's, You can run a very similar loadout, just without the large pulse lasers. The Night Gyr D would also be a good choice, it can run a LOT more missiles than you have now, with an ER Large Laser in the head for some direct fire support.

Other lock on systems that you can explore are ATM's and SSRM's. ATM's play similarly to LRM's, but have a much flatter trajectory. They do -amazing- damage, if you're between 120 and 270 (I think) meters, and much worse as you get further. They encourage you to get close, but not too close, and unload on an enemy in plain sight. Pretty much any LRM mech can run ATM's, you just play them more aggressively.

SSRM's are guided short range missiles, excellent light killers. You run those on faster mediums and lights, find enemy light mechs, and unload on them. You can be your team's savior in this case. NOBODY hates on streak boats, because light mechs can be the bane of any assault mechs.

So yea, don't stop playing, but I'd suggest getting some heavies or mediums to use as LRM boats instead of your assault, since they can run similar missile loads. Maybe explore faster streak boats as well, because they are probably more useful to the team in general.

[JediPanther]

Despite what the general forums threads in general would have you believe, lrms can be very helpful. As a lrm boat-er since closed beta days when only 4 mechs were play-able lrms do take a lot of skill to maximize their usefulness. Lower tiers will see grievers because they can. An experienced lrm boat can turn the tide of battle. I've been in many matches where lrms were the deciding factor or cause or loss depending on how they were used. Used effectively lrms can help the team win. Focus on doing more kill assists and kills rather than by going for double or triple damage scores on the end of match screen. A mech that did only 300 damage but got two kills is a good mech vs one that did say 567 and zero kills.

Your build is pretty good as it allows you to chain fire, fire in groups of 2-3 launchers, or just dump it all when you have no heat build up. The 2 lpls are ok for defense but as myself as a light pilot it will make you easy prey to lights. Read up a lot on how to counter lights. Also I'd increase your back armor to 12-15 minimal. As you get higher in tiers and into matches with more experienced lights you are very under-armored.

Here's a few tips to get you started to being one of us lrm-ers that gen dis whines about nerfs so much:

1. Be active. Never stand still for long periods of time. Always move with the team much as possible. Stay close to your team mates not only for protection from enemy lights but also to decrease range to target. Lrms have the slowest projectile speed in the game. As your using clan lrms you do not need worry about the 180m minimal range that IS have.

2. Always use R key for target info. It tells you the three most important things good lrm-ers need: Range-to-Target,Target damage, Type of target. You want to idealy fire at 400-500m to give your target less time to go for cover. Target damage will show you how badly if at all your target is. Type is what class of mech.

3. Communicate. Spaming R is become second nature reflex over time. Always carry and use the UAV consumerble. you get 1 for free and it only costs 40,000 c-bills. If you are worried about expense and not making a profit uncheck its auto-refil option. Pop that uav the moment a mech is on you as a distress flare. It will cancel out ecm and show the enimes near you to the entire team plus all the spotting bonuses.

You not only live longer thus doing more damage and getting kill asists or kills on weaker mechs but it can save your butt from a light wolf pack or fast mediums. You should be using R to target as it also give your trget info to every one else on your team. Don't be afraid to use team chat as well. There is also the comunication wheel by holding down 'E' by default. Spam the help me. as a last ditch resort.

4. Prioritize your Targets. Cycle through targets and go from least threat to attack-now. Should you lrm an ecm light in the distance whith full health or are you better off lrm-ing an agressive medium attacking a team mate? You'll have to decide for yourself. A good lrm-er is a god send in a brawl. When one of your teammates is face tanking an assault or heavy and has it locked help them by lrm-ing that target.

5. Ditch the lrms. That doesn't mean to go to other missile types. It simply means learn when it is better to use your back up weapons rather than trying to lrm a mech. You should always have a few back up weapons. While clan lrms do damage at under 200m and have no minimal range they also do jack do do for damage up close. I've seen many lrm-ers continue to lrm a close target that was attacking them such as a light only to die far to many times to count.

6. Break the circle of death. It is the attack pattern of light mechs. Reverse your mech and torso twist to keep them infront of you. Switch to your back up weapons and aim for the legs. No light pilot will continue to fight you when they realise you are aiming only for legs. the ones that do die very shortyly as they limp at 50kph. beack into a wall or other structure if you're near one.

You'll learn a lot with more experience from using lrms. Only practice will make you a good,decent or meh lrm-er.

[Eisenhorne]

Oh, one other thing. If you're having trouble aiming, go into settings and dial your mouse sensitivity WAY the heck down. Mine is extremely low, because its a hell of a lot easier to aim that way. The faster my mech, or the closer range I plan on engaging at, the higher i'll turn it up, but I never have the bar more than a quarter of the way up.

[Impetus Lux]

Eisenhorne, on 12 April 2018 - 08:57 PM, said:

LRMS -can- be very detrimental to your team, for the following reasons:

1) You did 871 damage, but the vast majority of it is spread over the entire enemy instead of one or two specific components. An Annihilator, for example, has 150 CT armor and like 80 torso health. If you do ONLY CT damage to it, you can kill it in 230 damage. If you're firing LRM's, you'll require a LOT more to kill it, because most of your damage will impact arms / side torsos. The damage is spread around.

2) Many people use LRM's very ineffectively. Doing lots of spread damage is still pretty useful, but a lot of people sit back at 900 meters with their LRM's, firing them at anything that is locked for a quarter second. They lose the lock, the LRMs impact harmlessly into the ground. Or the fire on things that are in hard cover, and the LRM's impact on the cover doing nothing.

3) Your team only has 3-4 assault mechs. They have the heaviest armor. If you're behind everyone else, they are taking all the hits, while normally you would draw some fire if you're on the front lines. Your team effectively is acting as your meat shield. Ideally, you want all mechs to take damage equally. When someone takes a few hits, ideally they fall back behind cover, someone else pops out, shoots, takes a few hits, and effectively armor is "shared" across everyone in the fight. If you're behind cover in an assault, the biggest source of that armor is lessened, and everyone else takes more.

4) Some maps effectively hard counter LRM's. If you run them on, like, River City, there are so many buildings, you won't do much damage unless you have speed enough to get a good angle on the enemy and launch around their cover. This means assault mechs are very bad for LRM boats on these maps.

This isn't to say you -can't- use LRM's. I would just suggest that the best use of them is on medium mechs or heavy mechs. They are generally more fragile, so aren't expected to share armor as much. They are faster as well, so they can get into much better firing positions. If you're interested in playing clans, a Mad Dog would be an excellent choice. It's purpose built to fire LRM's, You can run a very similar loadout, just without the large pulse lasers. The Night Gyr D would also be a good choice, it can run a LOT more missiles than you have now, with an ER Large Laser in the head for some direct fire support.

Other lock on systems that you can explore are ATM's and SSRM's. ATM's play similarly to LRM's, but have a much flatter trajectory. They do -amazing- damage, if you're between 120 and 270 (I think) meters, and much worse as you get further. They encourage you to get close, but not too close, and unload on an enemy in plain sight. Pretty much any LRM mech can run ATM's, you just play them more aggressively.

SSRM's are guided short range missiles, excellent light killers. You run those on faster mediums and lights, find enemy light mechs, and unload on them. You can be your team's savior in this case. NOBODY hates on streak boats, because light mechs can be the bane of any assault mechs.

So yea, don't stop playing, but I'd suggest getting some heavies or mediums to use as LRM boats instead of your assault, since they can run similar missile loads. Maybe explore faster streak boats as well, because they are probably more useful to the team in general.

This is what I failed to understand and where I was letting my team down, apparently. I largely lived behind cover, only doing direct fire when I or my team were getting hard-rushed. I didn't realize assaults were depended upon for their armor as well as their firepower. I've just bought a Night Gyr, and will save up to equip it. I'll give a smaller streak boat a try as well, when I have the credits for that. Thank you for the help.

[General Solo]

@OP
Like you said, your a new player, most likely in T4 or T5 where Lerms are highly effective.
As you climb tiers they get less effective against players who understand the lerm mechanic and can easily counter lerms.

Enjoi da lerms while their working for you.
Consider direct fire options when the lerms stop performing to your exceptions.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 12 April 2018 - 09:38 PM.

[Impetus Lux]

JediPanther, on 12 April 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Always carry and use the UAV consumerble. you get 1 for free and it only costs 40,000 c-bills. If you are worried about expense and not making a profit uncheck its auto-refil option. Pop that uav the moment a mech is on you as a distress flare. It will cancel out ecm and show the enimes near you to the entire team plus all the spotting bonuses.

I've mostly been using the coolant one, as an emergency pop if I get rushed and need to mass-strike everything. Is the UAV that much preferable?

[JediPanther]

In most cases the UAV will be a lot more benefit than one more alpha. The uav shows all enemy mechs including ecms until it is either shot down or expires as they have a limited life span. It also shows them to your entire team as well. You get small xp and c-bill bonuses from it when your team mates damage enemy under the uav. Most the time you can easily recoup the 40,000 c-bill cost just by doing damage,kill assists and kills. The auto-refil function will do as it says so you don't have to manually re-equip it on your mech.

You can also upgrade the UAV in the auxiliary tree to make it have longer range,longer life and carry a max of 2. for slower mechs it works great as a distress beacon. For the faster mechs they can 'uav farm' trying to put a uav above as many enemy they can for the small bonuses and damage bonus from team mates' fire.

Pay attention to your mini-map-radar. A sudden blob of red triangles is a uav above the enemy. Your highest priority targets when that happens are going to be either ECM heavies, ECM assaults, or dual guass, dual ac 20 mechs. The more ECM mechs you can take out early in a match the less ecm cover the enemy has and the more damage you can do while doing area denial so your brawler mechs can move in. Ideally you'll have damaged several mechs to yellow-red armor so they are easier kills for the mid and short ranged friendly mechs.

[B0oN]

Yo OP, try playing "aggressive" with your LRMs (min range 200m -max range 500m), that way you keep your flight times low, your locks fresh and your armour in rotation, it also efficiently shuts down the "LRMs are detrimental" crowd inna second or less if they see their LRM guy pushing right with them .

Furthermore, do not (!!!!!!!) rely on others to bring you locks on a silver platter, if somebody gets you a lock without suiciding take it, but don´t go around forcing people to lock for you, that's just bad manners.

The best LRMers are extremely self-sufficient, via good mappositioning (incredibly helpful to paint those ballistic curves into the sky in your minds eye, makes you waste less ammo if there´s hard cover intervening in your flight path) and spotting by themselves, TAG or NARC .

P.s.: Make sure to have some backup weapons with you at ALL times .

[Pineapple Salad]

Eisenhorne, on 12 April 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

Oh, one other thing. If you're having trouble aiming, go into settings and dial your mouse sensitivity WAY the heck down. Mine is extremely low, because its a hell of a lot easier to aim that way. The faster my mech, or the closer range I plan on engaging at, the higher i'll turn it up, but I never have the bar more than a quarter of the way up.

This is the single most useful tip you can give to a new player. Many people play with default sensitivity and then think like "I'm too old/slow/bad/whatever to play the game when in reality the default sensitivity is just through the roof.

I keep my sensitivity at 0.15 and mouse dpi around 800. It's still enough to do fast movements and torso twist between shots.

[MiZia]

Pineapple Salad, on 13 April 2018 - 01:31 AM, said:

This is the single most useful tip you can give to a new player. Many people play with default sensitivity and then think like "I'm too old/slow/bad/whatever to play the game when in reality the default sensitivity is just through the roof.

I keep my sensitivity at 0.15 and mouse dpi around 800. It's still enough to do fast movements and torso twist between shots.

Another Pro Tipp is just click the Signature of Pinneapple (Bottom of his Post) and just follow Tips of People that r at least in 90% percentile. Those perform generally better in Game and therefore r just a bit better Teacher.

Edited by MiZia, 13 April 2018 - 01:45 AM.

[Horseman]

Lucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

This is what I failed to understand and where I was letting my team down, apparently. I largely lived behind cover, only doing direct fire when I or my team were getting hard-rushed. I didn't realize assaults were depended upon for their armor as well as their firepower. I've just bought a Night Gyr, and will save up to equip it. I'll give a smaller streak boat a try as well, when I have the credits for that. Thank you for the help.

There's another approach to LRMs that you could try: put a TAG in one of your energy hardpoints (ideally arm, if you unlock arms you can target your missiles more freely). TAG speeds up target locks, allows you to lock ECM'ed opponents and improves missile tracking onto moving targets - using your own encourages a more active playstyle (also, Artemis' spread reduction buff only works while you have the target in LOS).

Another thing to note is that your ammo complement is nowhere near sufficient for a full match - I regularly run an Awesome 8R with 3xALRM15 and that thing can chew through 20 hundred missiles easily. Take more ammo and be more aggressive with how you utlize it.

Lucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

I try to spread harassment around anyone on the enemy front line, and use the LRM as a "cover fire" mechanic to try and force them to keep their heads down when our front is advancing out of cover. Unless someone's taken charge and is calling targets - in which case I just follow their direction.

Stay on one target as long as you can - LRMs may not be very efficient means of dealing damage, but in large amount you can strip armor and force them to keep their heads down - or, if you're lucky enough to leg them, just rain them to death.

Edited by Horseman, 13 April 2018 - 03:27 AM.

[Koniving]

Lucius Antonius Ursus, on 12 April 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Brand new player, just started two days ago and bought my first non-trial mech (Highlander IIC).

I'm an older guy and I have a dgenerative nerve condition. I'm not handicapped by any means, but I'm not great at twitch aiming. When I discovered LRMs were auto-guided, I was happy. I read up about the role of an "LRM boat" with what I could find on google, and built mine based on the info I found here: https://mwo.smurfy-n...17e4b53703e2cce

I try to spread harassment around anyone on the enemy front line, and use the LRM as a "cover fire" mechanic to try and force them to keep their heads down when our front is advancing out of cover. Unless someone's taken charge and is calling targets - in which case I just follow their direction.

The attached picture is a pretty normal representation of how my matches go (now that I have a basic grasp on how to play.) I'm never MVP, but I feel like I'm at least contributing decently.



But 4 different times now, I've gotten comments of "LRM 60 Highlander? Screw you man, you're not helping your team with that nonsense"

The first time I shrugged it off as epeen waving, but the repetitions put me in doubt.

Is LRM really that un-helpful? If it is that bad, is there a different mech or playstyle recommended for someone who's not so talented with the twitchy targeting?

There's players that... hark on LRMs a lot because they find when they are on the receiving end they are slaughtered...
They find it cowardly, because you're not out there taking damage too.

There's some that claim that they have no trouble avoiding missiles, etc., let them say what they say.

But for the most part the most well founded argument is if you're bombarding from the back, you're not helping to spread the enemy's damage around.

As such, I tend to be more of a fighting LRM boat when I'm an LRM assault.
Here's an example.


Nowadays I'd change the AC/2 out, probably for a RAC/2. Will have to see and try it out.
But take note; I'm using LRMs as I close in, and I'm very aggressive.

You may find fewer players "crying" about it then. And so long as you're producing scores like that, let them say what they will say.

[Koniving]

Some old, but additional videos showing valuable LRM support.

The Stalker in this foursome is bringing the LRMs. The Atlas is tanking the damage, and the Jagermechs are bringing the pain.


Hunchback defending base. LRM support is on point,but LRM speeds at the time were much slower than they are now.

(Another reason they often get a bad reputation, they used to be so slow that a stationary light could dodge them.)

Though I don't have recent videos, I do have recent scores.


This is a combination quad LRM-15, twin ATM-6, twin ML rig (found left of this image)

LRM-Stalker.

Stalker 3F2, Twin LRM-15s + Artemis, twin Light PPCs, four medium lasers. AMS, ECM.

To follow up on some of the others. Try to keep your kills within 200 damage, for many it takes between 35 and 50 damage to get the most 'efficient kill', so 4x that is a good goal per kill. You're already getting more "Kill by most damage dealt" than actual kills, which means you're hitting them good and that provides others with armor penetration needed to get the kills safely.

Your 800 damage to 10 targets is good and very useful. Out of 800+ damage you got 6 body parts destroyed. Could more efficient but it is good already. A consideration is to trade one or two of your LRM launchers to upgrade them to Artemis-enhanced launchers. This will significantly improve the concentration of your damage for direct-fire LRMs.

As you can see in the latest image above, 5 kills with 2 solo kills for 652 damage is well within the 200 damage per kill range, meaning that it is fairly efficient even by the stingiest standards of the elitists. If they want to cry, let them, I shall bathe in their salty tears.

Edited by Koniving, 13 April 2018 - 06:47 AM.

[Koniving]

(Correction on earlier; Stalker 3FB not 3F2).

On the subject of UAVs... I'm not certain how useful they would be for assaults, given that assaults are not necessarily close enough to "Behind enemy lines" to make the most out of them, but a UAV's camera can spot things that sensors cannot, such as stealth armored mechs, ECM mechs, etc.

Don't launch them near cover, though... They can only detect and point out what they can "See" and if there's a bridge, literally anything can be under it and you won't be telling anyone with the UAV since, well, it can't see through the bridge.


Took this shot just before shooting the enemy UAV with my arm mounted medium lasers (the o crosshair).
This UAV was able to spot me despite my ECM (had Stealth armor off but it wouldn't have mattered).
Soon the enemy team rolled in, though I had been harassing their team for a reasonable while and killed a few of their loners.

[Tesunie]

B0oN, on 13 April 2018 - 01:21 AM, said:

Yo OP, try playing "aggressive" with your LRMs (min range 200m -max range 500m), that way you keep your flight times low, your locks fresh and your armour in rotation, it also efficiently shuts down the "LRMs are detrimental" crowd inna second or less if they see their LRM guy pushing right with them .

I wont tell you how many times I still hear this, while I'm looking at them going "get on up here, your LRM user is in FRONT OF YOU"... Wont tell you how many times I was point man with my LRM builds (which admittedly have heavier direct fire than most other people's LRM builds). Even then, I still sometimes have people complain about the LRMs on their team... be it mine or someone else. (Though one time I did have someone say something about LRMs, I comment back, and then they gave me the all clear because they weren't talking to me and was referring to someone else... )

[Impetus Lux]

Eisenhorne, on 12 April 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

Oh, one other thing. If you're having trouble aiming, go into settings and dial your mouse sensitivity WAY the heck down. Mine is extremely low, because its a hell of a lot easier to aim that way. The faster my mech, or the closer range I plan on engaging at, the higher i'll turn it up, but I never have the bar more than a quarter of the way up.

I made this change and tried a laser heavy and it definitely went more smoothly. I still didn't remotely approach the damage or lifespan I'm able to get with an LRM/laser mix heavy, but I feel like I can improve it with practice.

In regards to your advice for trying a light SRM - is there a chassis you'd recommend?

[B0oN]

Tesunie, on 13 April 2018 - 07:11 AM, said:

I wont tell you how many times I still hear this, while I'm looking at them going "get on up here, your LRM user is in FRONT OF YOU"... Wont tell you how many times I was point man with my LRM builds (which admittedly have heavier direct fire than most other people's LRM builds). Even then, I still sometimes have people complain about the LRMs on their team... be it mine or someone else. (Though one time I did have someone say something about LRMs, I comment back, and then they gave me the all clear because they weren't talking to me and was referring to someone else... )

Yea, but I´ve seen you pushing faces INWARDS with those builds of yours and the way HOW you use them, so you shouldn´t let those whiners get to you since you have nothing to be ashamed of in the first place anyway, Tesunie

Lucius Antonius ?

Good SRM lights could be Jenner Oxide (or any other Jenner with at least four missile hardpoints if you don't wanna commit to buying a hero mech), Commando( "TankMando^TM" ^^), Jenner IIC, Arctic Wolf .

Medium class has a bunch of very interesting SRM bombers, like Assassin, Javelin, Trebuchet, Griffin, Hunchback-IIC, Stormcrow, etc .

Someone please correct me or expand on the SRM bomberlist if they want I cant recall them all from the top of my head, ´cause I´m still as high as a kite

Edited by B0oN, 14 April 2018 - 12:30 AM.

[Horseman]

Javelin has a variant with six hardpoints. For mediums, Bushwacker P1 is pretty good ( I run it as a streakboat )