116 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

White Knights please explain to me again how 12 machine guns on a light mech isn't a complete and utter outlier of the rest of the game ?

[Monkey Lover]

For now the only 12 machinegun mech can be killed with a few streaks or alpha to the face

If you put a 12 machineguns on a fast medium there might be issues

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 April 2018 - 02:51 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Well, I'm no white knight, but I think it goes like this:

12 MG on a fast, small mech is by definition an outlier since no other mech can do it.

Now is such an outlier "OP"? Only PGI can say.

I suspect it is not "OP" in the same sense that the Deathstrike is not "OP". Sure, in the hands of a competent player it may be. Said competent player may very well do better with the thing than they can with any other mech in the chassis or weight class in question. BUT...and this is the key...for every competent player cleaning house and giving evidence to the OP nature of the mech in question, there are a dozen potatoes trying and failing...often miserably...to emulate the performance that said competent player is regularly demonstrating.

The net of the statistical analysis in this situation is 1 match of OPness and 12 matches of laughable results giving you an average performance of blah to even less than blah. For all PGI knows from these numbers is that the Piranha is actually an under performer...statistically it may very well be across all tiers and modes.

Edited by Bud Crue, 15 April 2018 - 02:53 PM.

[Prototelis]

Did you get touched in your "bad spot" again?

Was this really worth a second thread?

[Requiemking]

Well, said 12 MG is built from plastic coathangers and old tinfoil, so one good shot and it's down.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Prototelis, on 15 April 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Did you get touched in your "bad spot" again?

Was this really worth a second thread?

Yes, it does until they fix the balance of it.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Bud Crue, on 15 April 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Well, I'm no white knight, but I think it goes like this:

12 MG on a fast, small mech is by definition an outlier since no other mech can do it.

Now is such an outlier "OP"? Only PGI can say.

I suspect it is not "OP" in the same sense that the Deathstrike is not "OP". Sure, in the hands of a competent player it may be. Said competent player may very well do better with the thing than they can with any other mech in the chassis or weight class in question. BUT...and this is the key...for every competent player cleaning house and giving evidence to the OP nature of the mech in question, there are a dozen potatoes trying and failing...often miserably...to emulate the performance that said competent player is regularly demonstrating.

The net of the statistical analysis in this situation is 1 match of OPness and 12 matches of laughable results giving you an average performance of blah to even less than blah. For all PGI knows from these numbers is that the Piranha is actually an under performer...statistically it may very well be across all tiers and modes.

Echos pretty much my observations and what I've stated in other threads. Some people do consistently really well in the piranha >700, but most matches I see the average fish pilot with very low damage at the end of the match, often <200.

[Seranov]

Papa Seranov's Guide to Getting 10+ Page Threads

Step 1: Complain about Machine Guns
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Everybody loses their goddamn minds.

[Requiemking]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Yes, it does until they fix the balance of it.

What exactly are they supposed to do? It's a glass cannon that boats 12 extremely short-ranged, ammo hungry weapons who's sole purpose is to empty your torso of weapons. It's sole advantage is speed, since it dies in pretty much one hit from a decent splat alpha.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Requiemking, on 15 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

What exactly are they supposed to do?

Wait for players to buy it when it comes out for cbills, then shortly after nerf it into the ground, never to be heard from again.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Requiemking, on 15 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

What exactly are they supposed to do? It's a glass cannon that boats 12 extremely short-ranged, ammo hungry weapons who's sole purpose is to empty your torso of weapons. It's sole advantage is speed, since it dies in pretty much one hit from a decent splat alpha.

The mech should have never entered the game .. nothing else like it. It VAPORIZES any component it focuses on. a dps of 13 on a fast mech seems like a pretty substantial list of advantages, especially when you compare it to any number of Innersphere mechs.


jam bar after 6 machine guns

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 15 April 2018 - 03:15 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Yes, it does until they fix the balance of it.

We just don't know if it's "balanced" or not. All we have is our subjective game play experience. I mean yes I had a match last week (group queue) were several members of several comp teams were in an 6-7 man and they ran three Piranha 1s right into the heart of our push, not even bothering to go for backs, they just focused one target down after anther while the rest of their team did the same. It was a blood bath and they each had well over 500 damage at the end (the B33F may have even streamed it). On the other hand, I have been screen shot-ing all my matches for the last couple of weeks and the VASTLY more common trend is 1-2 Piranhas (the 1 and other variants) in a drop and they die with less than 100 pts of damage.

I can ***** at PGI for a lot of stuff, but I can't fault them here. It is impossible for them to take into account all of our subjective experiences of getting owned by a given mech, other than with stats. if the over all stats show that the Piranhas are no better or worse than others what are they supposed to do? Take your word for it?

Now we can put forth our various conspiracy theories about how PGI handles their data,etc. but the fact is that we don't know if the thing is truly over performing. I mean this isn't like when the Arctic Cheetah dropped and there were videos of the thing getting alphad by multiple Stalker 5Ns and walking away with nary a scratch. This is straight up stats, and only PGI can say what they show.

[Requiemking]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

The mech should have never entered the game .. nothing else like it. It VAPORIZES any component it focuses on. a dps of 13 on a fast mech seems like a pretty substantial list of advantages, especially when you compare it to any number of Innersphere mechs.

Plus, they are already nerfing all Clan MGs on Tuesday, so I don't see what the problem is. Kill it like you would a Locust, Commando, or MLX.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Requiemking, on 15 April 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Plus, they are already nerfing all Clan MGs on Tuesday, so I don't see what the problem is. Kill it like you would a Locust, Commando, or MLX.

... from 8 to 7 is NOT a nerf and it does nothing to address the imbalance of 12 guns vs 4 on the innersphere side in same weight class.

[DeadEye COTP]

PGI already 'spoke' to this with their Solaris divisions. MLX and PIR being the highest rank light mechs, which subsequently, are the two that can boat the most MG's.

It's not so much the amount of MG's as it is the exponential crit bonus they get to basically rip off components and weapons with zero effort.

Edited by DeadEye COTP, 15 April 2018 - 03:21 PM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Bud Crue, on 15 April 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

We just don't know if it's "balanced" or not. All we have is our subjective game play experience. I mean yes I had a match last week (group queue) were several members of several comp teams were in an 6-7 man and they ran three Piranha 1s right into the heart of our push, not even bothering to go for backs, they just focused one target down after anther while the rest of their team did the same. It was a blood bath and they each had well over 500 damage at the end (the B33F may have even streamed it). On the other hand, I have been screen shot-ing all my matches for the last couple of weeks and the VASTLY more common trend is 1-2 Piranhas (the 1 and other variants) in a drop and they die with less than 100 pts of damage.

I can ***** at PGI for a lot of stuff, but I can't fault them here. It is impossible for them to take into account all of our subjective experiences of getting owned by a given mech, other than with stats. if the over all stats show that the Piranhas are no better or worse than others what are they supposed to do? Take your word for it?

Now we can put forth our various conspiracy theories about how PGI handles their data,etc. but the fact is that we don't know if the thing is truly over performing. I mean this isn't like when the Arctic Cheetah dropped and there were videos of the thing getting alphad by multiple Stalker 5Ns and walking away with nary a scratch. This is straight up stats, and only PGI can say what they show.

Only thing that matters in a game is fun .. Anyone facing a piranha with a competent pilot is not going to have much fun.

This is the Kodiak-3 all over again ... Its not fun

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 15 April 2018 - 03:22 PM.

[Requiemking]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

... from 8 to 7 is NOT a nerf and it does nothing to address the imbalance of 12 guns vs 4 on the innersphere side in same weight class.

And if said Piranha wants any ammo, he needs to be using LMGs, which means he is going to be doing nothing to armor even with 12, and again, they die in one hit to any decent splat alpha.

[Bud Crue]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

Only thing that matters in a game is fun .. Anyone facing a piranha with a competent pilot is not going to have much fun.

No doubt.

But if we apply that standard, well then we better get rid of about a third of the mechs in this game including Annihilators and MK-IIs, all the way down to Assassins and Arctic wolves.

Edited by Bud Crue, 15 April 2018 - 03:24 PM.

[Seranov]

Requiemking, on 15 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

And if said Piranha wants any ammo, he needs to be using LMGs, which means he is going to be doing nothing to armor even with 12, and again, they die in one hit to any decent splat alpha.

Clan MGs and LMGs weigh the same.

[Requiemking]

Seranov, on 15 April 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

Clan MGs and LMGs weigh the same.

LMGs have double the ammo of Standard MGs and a slightly higher crit chance, but lower damage, so they are more useful as vulturing weapons.