116 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

Only thing that matters in a game is fun .. Anyone facing a piranha with a competent pilot is not going to have much fun.

Well call me shocked!

Any potato facing anything with a competent pilot is not going to have much fun.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Requiemking, on 15 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

And if said Piranha wants any ammo, he needs to be using LMGs, which means he is going to be doing nothing to armor even with 12, and again, they die in one hit to any decent splat alpha.

They do not die in 1 hit, just stop with that narrative. Its not as easy as you make it sound.

[Requiemking]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

They do not die in 1 hit, just stop with that narrative. Its not as easy as you make it sound.

But it is. One direct hit from an LB40X Hunchie IIC evaporates Locusts, and most Splat mechs reach way over that in terms of alpha power. So again, if you think there is a gunfish about, put your back to a wall and shoot on sight. I guarantee if he isn't dead in the first salvo, he is either crippled(and thus will be dead in the second) or he will run away for an easier target.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Requiemking, on 15 April 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

But it is. One direct hit from an LB40X Hunchie IIC evaporates Locusts, and most Splat mechs reach way over that in terms of alpha power. So again, if you think there is a gunfish about, put your back to a wall and shoot on sight. I guarantee if he isn't dead in the first salvo, he is either crippled(and thus will be dead in the second) or he will run away for an easier target.

.... could you make a more narrow scenario to back up your claim that it dies from one hit. It doesn't just sit there. It can be fragile yes but this magical yea just shoot it once and is dead thing is silly

[Angel of Annihilation]

You know people can say all they want that a 12 MG Piranha isn't OP but it very much is. I know because I own one. You can tell it is OP because enemy mechs all run away from you when you concentrate your fire on them. Doesn't matter how much firepower they have or their size, they all start seeking to avoid you the second you open up on them because they know your going to strip them apart in seconds. Hell being on the opposite side of that on numerous equations, if your not in pristine armor condition, 5-10 seconds is all a Piranha needs to take you out or neuter you completely and make you unable to effectively be able to continue to fight.

The only reason that the 12 MG Piranha or any mech mounting more than 6 MGs doesn't always put up impressive numbers, is because they are a priority target for anyone who has any sense at all. You just know you have to put down that mass MG mech ASAP or else you and your team are going to have a bad day, period. Get 2-3 of those mass MG mechs on a team and that team is almost guaranteed to win.

So seriously, people just need to stop defending MGs. Honestly I feel the way mass MGs work currently is the most broken mechanic this game as ever had. It is 10x worse that the Poptart epidemic that saw JJ nerfed into uselessness so I honestly don't know why PGI doesn't actually do anything about them.

Also this is coming from a guy who constantly blast PGI for their nerf now, nerf again and nerf some more attitude to balancing. Out of over 8000 posts, I don't think I have ever had much more than a couple dozen or so of them that ever condoned any nerf in this game yet here I am screaming my head off that Mass MGs need a nerf and the reason why is very obvious to anyone playing this game whether they want to admit it or not. I will gladly take a nerfed to hell, useless Piranha and other mass MG mech if that is what is required to remove this cancer from the game.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 15 April 2018 - 03:44 PM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Viktor Drake, on 15 April 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

You know people can say all they want that a 12 MG Piranha isn't OP but it very much is. I know because I own one. You can tell it is OP because enemy mechs all run away from you when you concentrate your fire on them. Doesn't matter how much firepower they have or their size, they all start seeking to avoid you the second you open up on them because they know your going to strip them apart in seconds. Hell being on the opposite side of that on numerous equations, if your not in pristine armor condition, 5-10 seconds is all a Piranha needs to take you out or neuter you completely and make you unable to effectively be able to continue to fight.

The only reason that the 12 MG Piranha or any mech mounting more than 6 MGs doesn't always put up impressive numbers, is because they are a priority target for anyone who has any sense at all. You just know you have to put down that mass MG mech ASAP or else you and your team are going to have a bad day, period. Get 2-3 of those mass MG mechs on a team and that team is almost guaranteed to win.

So seriously, people just need to stop defending MGs. Honestly I feel the way mass MGs work currently is the most broken mechanic this game as ever had. It is 10x worse that the Poptart epidemic that saw JJ nerfed into uselessness so I honestly don't know why PGI doesn't actually do anything about them.

Also this is coming from a guy who constantly blast PGI for their nerf now, nerf again and nerf some more attitude to balancing. Out of over 8000 posts, I don't think I have ever had much more than a couple dozen or so of them that ever condoned any nerf in this game yet here I am screaming my head off that Mass MGs need a nerf and the reason why is very obvious to anyone playing this game whether they want to admit it or not. I will gladly take a nerfed to hell, useless Piranha and other mass MG mech if that is what is required to remove this cancer from the game.

Thank You.

[BTGbullseye]

Bud Crue, on 15 April 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

But if we apply that standard, well then we better get rid of about a third of the mechs in this game including Annihilators and MK-IIs, all the way down to Assassins and Arctic wolves.

You get rid of my MCII's, and I'll be both pissed, and not having fun... I prefer just about every other variant to the Deathstrike as well.

[VitriolicViolet]

they really arent hard to kill, ac20 SnPPC will wipe the floor with them, same with clouds of SRMs. hook on at least one JJ and you can generally keep up enough to end them. My mobility tree Highlander enjoys hunting lights, including the wall of MGs.

If players are fleeing your 20 ton mg box then they are bad players, obviously. An assault fleeing a light is either using a build specifically designed to destroy other assualts, or they are just a bad pilot. You should (in most cases) simply facedown a light unless your build is wrong or its one of the better light pilots, in which case you have to hope your good in the mech you have.

Once again, the counters to mechs like this are: Arm weapons, at least one JJ, learn to counter rotate lights, unlocking arms, taking weapons that are nasty close range, backing against a wall if things go bad.

If you know how to play 5-10 seconds is more than enough to take anything, short of an Anni with survival tree, out with most weapon combinations available. Its no where near as bad as the poptart meta, or even the las vom meta. A lot of people keep bringing up the 2 seconds and your dead which is false unless your under 50% health already, or your the kind of pilot who just stares at the enemy. in either case your likely dead anyway.

If the average player is anything like what ive spectated in game then i geuss i could see why the PIR is a problem. A lot of pilots are basically blind for one, the amount of times ive seen an enemy on screen and the pilot simply doesnt, or the guys who get shot in the back for literally 3 seconds before noticing, or the ones who somehow cant look at the minimap while playing, the hordes who wont or cant press R so they can target correctly on open sections, or the ones who cant move and aim at the same time.

The game is packed with bad players and that is why the PIR is considered 'OP'. i dont consider myself a good player but lights dont bother me, PIR included. If your a good player than any mech in the game can be made to work well and get high scores,if your bad than most good players will appear to be OP.

TL:DR Lights are easily destroyable, the PIR is only OP if you arent that good and If the pilot is good it doesnt matter what the mech is. I dont pilot lights, they are roughly 2% of all my matches whereas Assaults are 43%.

[kuma8877]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

Only thing that matters in a game is fun .. Anyone facing a piranha with a competent pilot is not going to have much fun.

This is the Kodiak-3 all over again ... Its not fun

Why is it just your fun that counts? What about the other pilot?

It's not fun either to get one shotted in MWO and it happens more often to PIR pilots than you're willing to admit or realize. So I call for a nef to anything over 50 tons, just for my enjoyment, because that would be more fun for me.......

[Judah Malganis]

Maybe then can limit machine gun crits to 6 guns critting per cycle max. It would fix boating without screwing mechs that carry less. Then again the extra guns would be replaced with lasers, and people would the complain that a PIR with 4-7 lasers + 6 machine gun combo eats up armor faster than 12 machine guns alone.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 15 April 2018 - 04:31 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Racerxintegra2k, on 15 April 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

White Knights please explain to me again how 12 machine guns on a light mech isn't a complete and utter outlier of the rest of the game ?

its not, no more than the NVA is with 14Energy, its just new, the PIR with 12 MG runs very little Ammo,
and with that even less Range which makes it very weak as 20Ton mech in 130m is a dead mech,
yes it can cause alot of trouble if ignored, but then again so can any mech if left alone,

also with no back up weapons a 12MG PIR only has 12DPS a second, full face time, thats not that good,
and with 130m range, that means it has to face hug inorder to do much, which is a bad place for a light to be,

my advice when a 12MG PIR comes after you, take a deep breath,
remember it will take him some time to get threw your armor, aim and hit him hard,
often you will kill the PIR or do enough damage to scare it away,

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Because it has an optimal range of 130m, spreads, has no alpha, and is only 12 DPS?

Speaking of DPS, lets talk on the concept of "Effective DPS" for a moment. Its a concept that shows that high alpha mechs have an extremely high boost to their effective DPS as the duration of the engagement shrinks.

For example a Wolfhound with a 36 damage alpha strike in 0.6 seconds has an effective DPS of 60 while a Piranha only has an Effective DPS of 14. In general a Wolfhound may make 3 attacks before running off to cool, this takes 7.4 seconds for it to deal its 108 damage, giving us an effective DPS of 14.6. Though in practice the Wolfhound takes cover between shots, lowering actual engagement time while keeping the damage high, making its effective DPS in practice much higher, this is something the Piranha is incapable of doing due to its constant face time weapon.

Since the Piranha has an alpha strike of 1.2 it practically gains nothing from the bonuses of effective DPS (basically just factoring in first shot not requiring a cooldown). It gets 75 "alphas" out in 7.4 seconds, or 90 damage, giving it an effective DPS of 12.2. Piranha has a lower effective DPS than most other lights when it comes to fighting against armored mechs, it excels at ripping up cored components at the cost of also being the lowest durability light in the game with the shortest range.


In what way is this mech OP?

[Vonbach]

Just shoot the fish! Everyone says. Yeah but you have to hit the thing first.
Its about the same size and speed as a locust. Plus we have the hit reg issues.
A 20 ton mech that can cripple most mechs with one volley is not fun.

[Jman5]

Viktor Drake, on 15 April 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

You know people can say all they want that a 12 MG Piranha isn't OP but it very much is. I know because I own one. You can tell it is OP because enemy mechs all run away from you when you concentrate your fire on them. Doesn't matter how much firepower they have or their size, they all start seeking to avoid you the second you open up on them because they know your going to strip them apart in seconds. Hell being on the opposite side of that on numerous equations, if your not in pristine armor condition, 5-10 seconds is all a Piranha needs to take you out or neuter you completely and make you unable to effectively be able to continue to fight.

The only reason that the 12 MG Piranha or any mech mounting more than 6 MGs doesn't always put up impressive numbers, is because they are a priority target for anyone who has any sense at all. You just know you have to put down that mass MG mech ASAP or else you and your team are going to have a bad day, period. Get 2-3 of those mass MG mechs on a team and that team is almost guaranteed to win.

So seriously, people just need to stop defending MGs. Honestly I feel the way mass MGs work currently is the most broken mechanic this game as ever had. It is 10x worse that the Poptart epidemic that saw JJ nerfed into uselessness so I honestly don't know why PGI doesn't actually do anything about them.

Also this is coming from a guy who constantly blast PGI for their nerf now, nerf again and nerf some more attitude to balancing. Out of over 8000 posts, I don't think I have ever had much more than a couple dozen or so of them that ever condoned any nerf in this game yet here I am screaming my head off that Mass MGs need a nerf and the reason why is very obvious to anyone playing this game whether they want to admit it or not. I will gladly take a nerfed to hell, useless Piranha and other mass MG mech if that is what is required to remove this cancer from the game.

Do you play this Piranha on another account? You're not showing up for any light mechs in any of the seasons since the Piranha has come out. I only ask because you're trying to use your experience as evidence for why you think the piranha should be nerfed, but I'm not seeing any light mech matches from your account since the Piranha released.

Regardless, Clan Machine guns are getting a nerf next patch and it will impact the Piranha's damage numbers.

Edited by Jman5, 15 April 2018 - 05:11 PM.

[PocketYoda]

These forums have it all backwards..

The definition of overpowered is when everyone can use something far beyond what everything else is capable of.. E.g the piranhas, 12 machine guns in anyones hands that can point and shoot the damn thing can over perform in it..

It has zero to do with the mech other than its size and speed, nearly all lights with 12 machine guns would be abusive, the fleas will be as well...

This in the hands of a top player bs is just that bs any even partially average player can abuse these and myst lynxs..

Yes i own them.. no i wont abuse the damn things just to prove a point.. Customers don't deserve that treatment in a game..

Edited by Samial, 15 April 2018 - 05:26 PM.

[kuma8877]

Vonbach, on 15 April 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Just shoot the fish! Everyone says. Yeah but you have to hit the thing first.
Its about the same size and speed as a locust. Plus we have the hit reg issues.
A 20 ton mech that can cripple most mechs with one volley is not fun.

One volley eh?

[TechChris]

Viktor Drake, on 15 April 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

You know people can say all they want that a 12 MG Piranha isn't OP but it very much is. I know because I own one. You can tell it is OP because enemy mechs all run away from you when you concentrate your fire on them. Doesn't matter how much firepower they have or their size, they all start seeking to avoid you the second you open up on them because they know your going to strip them apart in seconds. Hell being on the opposite side of that on numerous equations, if your not in pristine armor condition, 5-10 seconds is all a Piranha needs to take you out or neuter you completely and make you unable to effectively be able to continue to fight.

The only reason that the 12 MG Piranha or any mech mounting more than 6 MGs doesn't always put up impressive numbers, is because they are a priority target for anyone who has any sense at all. You just know you have to put down that mass MG mech ASAP or else you and your team are going to have a bad day, period. Get 2-3 of those mass MG mechs on a team and that team is almost guaranteed to win.

*claps*
Well put. Definitely one the more eloquent responses I've seen someone take the time to put up in response to this topic.

I agree on your analogy. How your average player "responds" to a mech speaks well for what the expected outcome will be of that mechs presence. I see an Anni, I think "ooh.... Cbill piñata.... If I can just get the right firing lane!?", I see a Fishgun, I think "**** ****, need to get to my nearest teammate(s) and call attention to that thing before it guts my team from behind, or I need to disappear so it doesn't target me!" But either way...... Just have to wait til it's out for Cbills, and see what happens. Personally, it's not the biggest thing to me. If it's dealt with, then nice and I won't shed a tear. If it's not, then just another thing that is what it is, and I'll adjust as I have to.



*sits back with a drink n waits for some chuckehead to check jarls list or some **** n hopes of finding some arbitrary reason to tell me to gitgud or L2P or some other ****, n leave there toy alone.*

Edited by TechChris, 15 April 2018 - 05:28 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 April 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

its not, no more than the NVA is with 14Energy, its just new, the PIR with 12 MG runs very little Ammo,
and with that even less Range which makes it very weak as 20Ton mech in 130m is a dead mech,
yes it can cause alot of trouble if ignored, but then again so can any mech if left alone,

also with no back up weapons a 12MG PIR only has 12DPS a second, full face time, thats not that good,
and with 130m range, that means it has to face hug inorder to do much, which is a bad place for a light to be,

my advice when a 12MG PIR comes after you, take a deep breath,
remember it will take him some time to get threw your armor, aim and hit him hard,
often you will kill the PIR or do enough damage to scare it away,

It doesn't need a lot of ammo and when these things come at you you're dead there is no ifs or buts you are dead because its hit you in the back for 2 secs and then its off to your team mates, and no matter what people say 75% of mechs here are so damn slow even watching your back they still core you faster than you can turn...

Yes once in a while you get lucky and kill a piranha but not very often..

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Samial, on 15 April 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

The definition of overpowered is when everyone can use something far beyond what everything else is capable of.. E.g the piranhas, 12 machine guns in anyones hands that can point and shoot the damn thing can over perform in it..

Well, seems the requirement for killing the thing is the exact same requirement as "over performing" in it.

[MechaBattler]

If you boat anything in the extreme it becomes an outlier. It's why we have ghost heat. I suggested this in another thread. But what if MGs had a bar like RACs do. Like an Ammo Feed Bar. The more MGs you have, the faster it fills. But past 4 MGs it increases the rate at which it fills. It could be a hard cap put your MGs on cooldown. Or it could effect rate fire or spread or both. But it would leave MGs still useful for mechs that can't boat them. And nerf mechs that are outliers.