116 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

Der Geisterbaer, on 19 April 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

At the same time I'm kinda "surprised" that people still make false claims about this mechs capabilities ... or rather straight up lie about what it can do.



Somehow my Mist Lynx regularly survives 3 full 4 x SSRM-4 alphas while my PIR-1 tends to bite the dust after the second one. Not to mention some Gauss + SSRM combos that my Lynx survived while the PIR died instantly.



Let's see:

MLX typically 27km/h slower but still fast enough to run circles around assaults.
MLX more armor and structure
MLX jump capable and thus more maneuverable
MLX with stronger energy alphas for breaching armor proteced zones
MLX with superior FoV due to less obstructed cockpit.



Maybe because that's yet another instance of moving goal posts? Let's just ignore the fact that the very premise of IS vs. Clan is that there are things that one side can while the other can't and just ask this: When did this "discussion" shift from "12 machine guns do insane damage" to "how is the PIR-1 balanced against IS?" exactly?

And where exactly is your proof? Because so far all we got from you are allegly "self-evident" claims about Piranhas being "cancer" or being "outright broken". The burden of (actual) proof for said claims is on you and not on those who don't share your POV.



I guess it never occurred to you that there are no "clan counterparts" to begin with. Both the MLX and ACH builds with 6 to 8 machine guns actually have a somewhat different role than the PIR and other mechs of the light weight class.



Yeah, your anecdotal evidence becomes outright hilarious when considering the accounts given by dedicated PIR-pilots on how the allegedly OP PIR-1 gets annihilated by pretty much every mech in the medium, heavy and assault weight classes in 1vs.1. ... which is a direct contradiction to what many assault pilots claimed prior to Solaris.

So keep on entertaining me with your claims about "OP" PIR and your lack of understanding as to why people "defend" that "cancer" of mech.

Wrong. Fake news.

Seriously though we just completely disagree and that's ok. I don't work for PGI i cant provide statistics to back up my claim. Frankly as a paying customer i don't have to prove a thing. The mech is cancer imo and as such i will be objecting with my wallet(Canceled my $30 pre-order on solaris heros and did not purchase Fafnir $20). Many others feel the way i do(Maybe not on this forum, but i interact with individuals daily perhaps more than have posted here and they agree its a bs mech).

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 19 April 2018 - 08:48 AM.

[mistlynx4life]

Quote

The problem with the whole mass MG things is that you shouldn't have to alter the entire game around one weapon and I am not sure why so many people can't figure this out. You shouldn't have to rebuild all your mechs just in case you run into a PIR or other mass MG Mech nor should the entire meta have to adjust for them either.

...yes, you should and yes, it should. It is balanced. Shoot us. That's what you have to do. Don't take single-digit back armor. Use your arm weapons. Don't stray. Encourage your Lights to screen. Communicate. Call out targets. Rotate armor on the frontline. Vote down the Solaris maps that let them use hit-and-run tactics most effectively. Keep your back to the wall. Torso twist to spread the damage and the MG ammo. This isn't new information, it's the same old information that pilots continue to refuse to accept. Listen, if the MGs were as OP as people are claiming, why aren't we seeing them more often in Solaris? Why did they get a nice little cameo at the Championships and then fade away until two days ago? For that matter, why do people insist that the only good Lynx build is the ERPPC one or the MG one? I literally recorded a match last night where I took 4xSRMs in a MLX-Prime against an Atlas who kept his back to the wall 90% of the match but brought an XL engine, I guess, because I focused down his LT and that killed him while he was literally standing against the wall. It was heckin' boring though. Is that what you're hoping for - a game where everyone takes predictable builds and uses them predictably and the one who clicks faster wins? When you use the word 'balance' you are describing a vanilla, all-things-equal, stagnant, static experience that would make a terrible game. This pilot adopted some of the tactics but still lost because he didn't vote down the caves map. I had mobility and he did not.

If someone was running an all-flamer build that went around shutting down 'mechs for their buddies to mop up, people would laugh. It's silly. It doesn't get c-bills and it's a waste of tonnage. But it wins. I've done it. I've run matches where I did 0 damage, only spotting and NARCing and distracting and such, and our team did amazing. Are flamers OP? Are zero damage builds OP? No, standing there and letting yourself overheat and not calling for backup is just the opposite of OP. Not realizing that the tiny 'mech jumping around is a distraction and maintaining fire on priority targets is the opposite of OP.

And bringing a 'mech into a battlefield, Solaris or no, where there is the slight possibility of facing an MG boat without adopting the anti-MG strategies that MG boat and veteran players have been repeating since August '17 is the opposite of OP. They didn't put the Lynxes and Piranhas in Division 2 because those are amazing 'mechs, I suspect they put them there because that Division has some very serious potential for lots of armor and streaks in most of the other 'mechs. They know how to balance squishy close-range crit machines against bigger 'mechs but they can't force the bigger 'mechs to use that advantage. Also...

*notices his own sigblock*
Oh, right. I'll see myself out then, lol.

Edited by mistlynx4life, 19 April 2018 - 08:58 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Wrong. Fake news.

That's the kind of "argumentation" I've certainly gotten used to by a certain group of forum users.

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Seriously though we just completely disagree and that's ok.

That's just another of your (incorrect) claims: "We" don't not "completely disagree" on this issue, so it certainly cannot be "ok" in any sense of that term. I can and do see at least parts of your train of thought and might even take them into consideration if it weren't for those vastly exaggerated buzz words you (and others) keep using or with the recurring misrepresentation of "facts". And I'm certainly pissed at the goal posts being constantly shifted whenever certain claims do not hold up to closer inspection.

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't work for PGI i cant provide statistics to back up my claim.

So you're admitting right there, that unlike the strong words in your claims might suggest there's not a yota of proof to be had from you. So we just have your opinion. Well there's a famous film quote linked to Clint Eastwood's "Dirty" Harry Callahan.

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Frankly as a paying customer i don't have to prove a thing.

Frankly, this game is still generally "free 2 play" and your personal decision of being a "paying customer" in that environment is worth zilch in comparison to both "non paying customers" as well as "other paying customers" and if you make claims like "this is cancer" in this very forum you're most certainly under the obligation of providing some form of proof if you want to be taken seriously by both your peers (paying and otherwise) and the game's provider that you try to convince of your opinion.

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

The mech is cancer imo and as such i will be objecting with my wallet(Canceled my $30 pre-order on solaris heros and did not purchase Fafnir $20).

Well congrats on exercising your free will ... While any such decision can actually lead to the service provider accepting your economic "black mail" and thus changing the game to something that you find more agreeable that doesn't bring you any closer to actually proving that any of your claims is factually true.

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Many others feel the way i do(Maybe not on this forum, but i interact with individuals daily perhaps more than have posted here and they agree its a bs mech).

"Many others" is how many exactly? Particularly in context of your underlying stipulation that within your personal sphere you talk about mwo and the PIR with a number of people that exceeds the number of people that have participated in the numerous "PIR-1 is OP"-threads here ... on a daily basis no less.

Exaggerations to degrees that fall into the realms of intellectual dishonesty and outright lying ... possibly without even noticing.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 19 April 2018 - 09:58 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Der Geisterbaer, on 19 April 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

That's the kind of "argumentation" I've certainly gotten used to by a certain group of forum users.



That's just another of your (incorrect) claims: "We" don't not "completely disagree" on this issue, so it certainly cannot be "ok" in any sense of that term. I can and do see at least parts of your train of thought and might even take them into consideration if it weren't for those vastly exaggerated buzz words you (and others) keep using or with the recurring misrepresentation of "facts". And I'm certainly pissed at the goal posts being constantly shifted whenever certain claims do not hold up to closer inspection.



So you're admitting right there, that unlike the strong words in your claims might suggest there's not a yota of proof to be had from you. So we just have your opinion. Well there's a famous film quote linked to Clint Eastwood's "Dirty" Harry Callahan.



Frankly, this game is still generally "free 2 play" and your personal decision of being a "paying customer" in that environment is worth zilch in comparison to both "non paying customers" as well as "other paying customers" and if you make claims like "this is cancer" in this very forum you're most certainly under the obligation of providing some form of proof if you want to be taken seriously by both your peers (paying and otherwise) and the game's provider that you try to convince of your opinion.



Well congrats on exercising your free will ... While any such decision can actually lead to the service provider accepting your economic "black mail" and thus changing the game to something that you find more agreeable that doesn't bring you any closer to actually proving that any of your claims is factually true.



"Many others" is how many exactly? Particularly in context of your underlying stipulation that within your personal sphere you talk about mwo and the PIR with a number of people that exceeds the number of people that have participated in the numerous "PIR-1 is OP"-threads here ... on a daily basis no less.

Exaggerations to degrees that fall into the realms of intellectual dishonesty and outright lying ... possibly without even noticing.

If you put half as much effort into your career as you do arguing for the sake of arguing on the internet i would like to extend my congratulations on your vibrant and surely profitable career. Have a good day buddy.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

If you put half as much effort into your career as you do arguing for the sake of arguing on the internet i would like to extend my congratulations on your vibrant and surely profitable career. Have a good day buddy.

Ah and finally the holy trinity of fallacies is completed ...

[Racerxintegra2k]

Der Geisterbaer, on 19 April 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

Ah and finally the holy trinity of fallacies is completed ...

Have you been piloting the Piranha ? Judging by your Jarl's/MWO leader board Stats it becomes evident why you don't consider the Piranha OP.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Have you been piloting the Piranha ?

What if I had? What would the relevance be exactly?

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Judging by your Jarl's/MWO leader board Stats it becomes evident why you don't consider the Piranha OP.

Really? This form of stat shaming might actually become a prizeless piece of entertainment. So enlighten me: What do my leaderboard stats tell you?

[Racerxintegra2k]

Der Geisterbaer, on 19 April 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

What if I had? What would the relevance be exactly?



Really? This form of stat shaming might actually become a prizeless piece of entertainment. So enlighten me: What do my leaderboard stats tell you?

Listen buddy you are the one that hung his hat on facts/stats. Remember you kept telling me to provide facts.
noun
[color=#878787 !important]
[/color]

• 
  
  
  1.

  
  
  a starchy plant tuber that is one of the most important food crops, cooked and eaten as a vegetable.
  
  
  
  Until a certain mech you are defending to the death was released.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

Listen buddy you are the one that hung his hat on facts/stats.

Well, for starters I'm not your "buddy" and certainly haven't "hung my hat" on "facts" or "stats". My "hat" is hung up on you providung "proof" for your "claims" that you present as "facts".

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

Remember you kept telling me to provide facts.

I'm just going the rephrase the previous question that you're dodging with your recurring theme of using fallacies as part of your "argumentation": Which "facts" are exactly associated with my leaderboard stats?

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

Let's see
noun
[color=#878787 !important]
[/color]

• 
  
  
  
  
  
  1.
  
  a starchy plant tuber that is one of the most important food crops, cooked and eaten as a vegetable.
  
  
  
  Until a certain mech you are defending to the death was released.

Ah in addition to messing up simple BB-Code we have another round of "ad hominem" that also quite obviously doesn't get the "facts" at all:

Take a very good look at the season that saw the Piranha's release once again and then another look at the two seasons prior to that and now tell me - since you seem to believe that you have found some form of proof in those "potatoe" numbers:

Which mech did I pilot in season 18 which quite obviously dropped me by -17% in comparison to season 17 despite being pretty much a 100% light mech user during all three of those seasons?

How exactly did I manage to turn that into a +27% during the release month of the PIR - a release that occured 8 days before the season ended?

Are you going to imply that I did the vast majority of those 306 matches during that season in those 8 days?

And how does the next 21% increase in season 19 fit into your construct considering that that particular season also saw my second highest participation rate within the medium weight class?

As expected: Your attempt of stat shaming has indeed become a great source of prizeless entertainment.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 19 April 2018 - 10:58 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Der Geisterbaer, on 19 April 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

Well, for starters I'm not your "buddy" and certainly haven't "hung my hat" on "facts" or "stats". My "hat" is hung up on you providung "proof" for your "claims" that you present as "facts".



I'm just going the rephrase the previous question that you're dodging with your recurring theme of using fallacies as part of your "argumentation": Which "facts" are exactly associated with my leaderboard stats?





Ah in addition to messing up simple BB-Code we have another round of "ad hominem" that also quite obviously doesn't get the "facts" at all:

Take a very good look at the season that saw the Piranha's release once again and then another look at the two seasons prior to that and now tell me - since you seem to believe that you have found some form of proof in those "potatoe" numbers:

Which mech did I pilot in season 18 which quite obviously dropped me by -17% in comparison to season 17 despite being pretty much a 100% light mech user during all three of those seasons?

How exactly did I manage to turn that into a +27% during the release month of the PIR - a release that occured 8 days before the season ended?

Are you going to imply that I did the vast majority of those 306 matches during that season in those 8 days?

And how does the next 21% increase in season 19 fit into your construct considering that that particular season also saw my second highest participation rate within the medium weight class?

As expected: Your attempt of stat shaming has indeed become a great source of prizeless entertainment.

I'm also entertained by your stats and opinion on the piranha. It seems this thread has been productive for both parties.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'm also entertained by your stats and opinion on the piranha.

Ah, the rightousness of someone who doesn't consider himself a "potatoe". What exactly is "my opinion" on the Prianha btw.?

Oh and it seems that you don't have answers to the question I have just given you. Does that mean that your out of "proof" once more?

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

It seems this thread has been productive for both parties.

I'm fairly certain that there's some form of delusion involved in this statement.

edit: I wonder how your little theory about the PIR and my performance will look like once the stats of this season are available on Jarl's ~laugh~

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 19 April 2018 - 11:19 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Der Geisterbaer, on 19 April 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

Ah, the rightousness of someone who doesn't consider himself a "potatoe". What exactly is "my opinion" on the Prianha btw.?

Oh and it seems that you don't have answers to the question I have just given you. Does that mean that your out of "proof" once more?



I'm fairly certain that there's some form of delusion involved in this statement.

The only delusion involved here is yours. Before the release of the piranha your average match score in lights ~190. The piranha is released and you jump to 250. Pretty clear to everyone why you are trying so hard to defend your baby. I would hate to lose 60 points on my average to.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

The only delusion involved here is yours.

~laugh~ You're so easy to predict.

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

Before the release of the piranha your average match score in lights ~190. The piranha is released and you jump to 250.

So you are indeed making the claim that my season 19 increase by +27% was created in 8 out of 31 days in that particular mech. ~giggle~

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

Pretty clear to everyone why you are trying so hard to defend your baby.

The only thing "clear" here is that you

a ) like interpretating statistical numbers to your own liking

b ) have no clue that correlation still doesn't imply causation and thus keep dwelving in those logical fallacies you seem to like so much

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 April 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

I would hate to lose 60 points on my average to.

Ah, so now you not only know which mechs I use, you now also have deeper insight into my personal feelings about losing (or not losing) a certain amount of points of epeen numbers ... the kind of epeen numbers that seemingly have more effect on you than they have on me ~still laughing~

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 19 April 2018 - 11:41 AM.

[dario03]

I still notice lights including the Piranha being a low priority target, players typically shoot bigger mechs first. And despite this these bigger mechs still often times put up bigger numbers.
So again I ask How much damage is a light allowed to do? How much damage can a light do before its considered op? What about the other classes? If you don't want to go with pure damage since that can mean a lot of things then what effectiveness percentage should a light be compared to other mechs?

[mistlynx4life]

*opens door*
"No, no, dario, it's over. This is how all these threads end!"
*yanks dario by the collar and they both leave the room*

[dario03]

mistlynx4life, on 19 April 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

*opens door*
"No, no, dario, it's over. This is how all these threads end!"
*yanks dario by the collar and they both leave the room*

But, but, I need answers. Nobody ever answers this for me. Nobody tells me anything *runs away

Edited by dario03, 19 April 2018 - 11:52 AM.

[Jounin Astray]

Eh, it seems pretty pointless. PIR aren't even a problem when they get nailed, but if the lag-armor is in effect then they'll usually get their way. And no, there's nothing currently in place that can prevent that. I dumped 2 AC/20 simultaneously into the back of one that was stationary in front of our friendly Annihilator, just whittling away at it while the assault yelled for help, and - even at risk for completely hitting a friendly due to it being 80m away and so tiny - just unloaded an MRM30 as well to seal the deal and get rid of the nuisance, guess what happened..? Apparently armor points can be re-allocated mid-battle, because a hit to the rear CT translates to a component destruction of the right arm with extra scattered damage, so the little bugger just ran off.


Excellent! Both of us literally just went "...Wait...what..?!"

"...H'wat?!"



Solution: Use your Lynx, your Piranha, and anything else you can. Use them, spam them like no tomorrow! I know I will.

Let the rage rise to an undesirable degree that no one - even the White Knights that readily patrol these forums - can ignore, and only then will you get the change you desire. Its as simple as that.