60 replies to this topic

[Asym]

It will be a neat thing to see if ELO can function at minimal population. I hope it works well enough to encourage it's use elsewhere in the MWO platform...

I expect that it will default at some point and we'll see disparities that never would occurred if the populations were adequate... the down side, is that once you skew the statistics, those errors can ripple for a while..... Not sure if that make any difference though? A neat thing to follow though....watching, since I won't play S7 just to see if ELO works or not....

[sycocys]

Are they going to use the overall elo to combine with the rest of the game's ranking somehow and re-adjust PSR? Doesn't really seem like there's a point to having the overall one since it serves no actual purpose other than the global ranking.

[MischiefSC]

What you'll see is a stretch on top and bottom of Elo scores. The top 10 or 20 players will stretch way high, clustering at the top, especially if they spread out among the Divs instead of clustering. Similar with the very bottom.

Outside of that a shallow population doesn't impact it much.

[Ted Wayz]

Had the same situation and sure enough got wrecked. Had a lot of hope though, Duncan said the match was a coin flip going in...

[sycocys]

MischiefSC, on 22 April 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

What you'll see is a stretch on top and bottom of Elo scores. The top 10 or 20 players will stretch way high, clustering at the top, especially if they spread out among the Divs instead of clustering. Similar with the very bottom.

Outside of that a shallow population doesn't impact it much.

It doesn't seem to impact anything but global ranking. I've been running random mechs across most of the tiers and despite my terrible global elo (something like 1100 or so) I'm still mid 1300-1400s in the individual tiers.

Not really a complaint or anything, just to me it seems like a confusing metric. My global elo seems to be ~300 points lower than what would be my average of the ratings I have. To me it seems like whatever equation they are using to calculate the global would only serve to penalize people that run in multiple divisions.

[Phoenix 72]

MischiefSC, on 21 April 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

As someone who's a little tired of carrying sandbags I have 0 empathy for bads complaining that because they are bad and refuse to put in the teaspoon of effort involved in improving the game is no fun for them.

Absolutely. However, with a decent matchmaking, you can play with players of your skill level, while the sandbags can play amongst themselves. That's how it is supposed to be.

If you are fighting punching bags, there is something wrong on the technical side.

[El Bandito]

Darakor Stormwind, on 22 April 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

Absolutely. However, with a decent matchmaking, you can play with players of your skill level, while the sandbags can play amongst themselves. That's how it is supposed to be.

If you are fighting punching bags, there is something wrong on the technical side.

More like something is wrong on the population side--mostly during off hours. During prime time, I never faced someone with more than 200 Elo difference. Only time I face complete sandbags is when I start a new division from the beginning--after about 10 or so wins I get grouped with decent players once more.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 April 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[Papaspud]

Good to see the epeen crowd is already shaming those weak players, soon you will have your own private mode with all 100 players or so, and the rest of the game can just fade into the sunset, have fun while you can.

S7= toxic++ to MWO

[Phoenix 72]

El Bandito, on 22 April 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

More like something is wrong on the population side--mostly during off hours. During prime time, I never faced someone with more than 200 Elo difference. Only time I face complete sandbags is when I start a new division from the beginning--after about 10 or so wins I get grouped with decent players once more.

So just curious, what would be your solution to improving the population side situation?

I find the discussion interesting, I am not actually playing Solaris. Or FP. I am one of those Sandbags that cannot get much above a 1:1 win/loss ratio in pickup groups.

[MischiefSC]

Papaspud, on 22 April 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Good to see the epeen crowd is already shaming those weak players, soon you will have your own private mode with all 100 players or so, and the rest of the game can just fade into the sunset, have fun while you can.

S7= toxic++ to MWO

Will we rue the day we didn't cater to the players who put in the least effort? That we didn't pretend that everyone is a winner no matter how well they do or don't so?

I get it. We should be horribly ashamed of winning. Good, moral, noble people don't want to win. They don't make good choices, they don't try to improve. If everyone can't win then nobody wins! WE WILL BE SORRY WE DIDN'T APPRECIATE THEM MORE!

Fortunately PGI has expanded decals to 9, so you can put RUE THE DAY on your mechs.

Here I thought it was a PvP game. That literally the whole point and basis of the game is players playing against other players and one side winning. It is inherently competitive, in a fun, friendly and casual game. Like chess or poker or any sport.

I'll get my day rue-ing hat out I guess. Fortunately everyone who doesn't actually want PvP will soon have MW5 and only "100" players will he left. It's not lime the most populated games in the world are all PvP. I mean has anyone even heard of Pubg? Fortenite? Those games would be so much more popular if everyone was a winner.

[El Bandito]

Darakor Stormwind, on 22 April 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

So just curious, what would be your solution to improving the population side situation?

I find the discussion interesting, I am not actually playing Solaris. Or FP. I am one of those Sandbags that cannot get much above a 1:1 win/loss ratio in pickup groups.

Simple solution would be for you to play Solaris. At least try it out. Even if you suck, you will at least increase the chance of fellow sandbags fighting each other, instead of against strong pilots. A lot of people who deride Solaris haven't tried out the mode at any significant length.

More complicated solution would be for PGI to work on Solaris mode so that the participants would feel like getting well rewarded for their efforts to climb the ladder, aside from simply getting placed high in ladder rankings. If Solaris supply crates have better prizes, then plenty of pugs will start to grind for em, thus drastically increasing Solaris population. Finally, PGI must balance the divisions as frequently as they can, especially during the early days, so that the meta per division will not remain stale for long--which will increase the mode's longevity.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 April 2018 - 11:07 AM.

[Phoenix 72]

Right now I am playing "normal" mode, because I an a newb. I am in Tier 4 and I own a whooping four mastered Mechs. Two of which are Lights. All in all, I have 10 Mechs. Half of which I found out that I have no clue how to play. ;-) The rest I am currently trying to push to mastery, because I figure that I do not need to show up in Solaris with my 2 Skillpoint Roughneck. ;-)

When the double exp event is over, I might try it out. Or I might not. It might be better for me to spend more time in pugs to "git good".

[kuma8877]

MischiefSC, on 22 April 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Will we rue the day we didn't cater to the players who put in the least effort? That we didn't pretend that everyone is a winner no matter how well they do or don't so?

I get it. We should be horribly ashamed of winning. Good, moral, noble people don't want to win. They don't make good choices, they don't try to improve. If everyone can't win then nobody wins! WE WILL BE SORRY WE DIDN'T APPRECIATE THEM MORE!

Fortunately PGI has expanded decals to 9, so you can put RUE THE DAY on your mechs.

Here I thought it was a PvP game. That literally the whole point and basis of the game is players playing against other players and one side winning. It is inherently competitive, in a fun, friendly and casual game. Like chess or poker or any sport.

I'll get my day rue-ing hat out I guess. Fortunately everyone who doesn't actually want PvP will soon have MW5 and only "100" players will he left. It's not lime the most populated games in the world are all PvP. I mean has anyone even heard of Pubg? Fortenite? Those games would be so much more popular if everyone was a winner.

Interestingly enough, the PVE side of Fortnite (Save The World), while a really good game on it's own, has almost no players in comparison to the PVP side of the house....

[kuma8877]

Papaspud, on 22 April 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Good to see the epeen crowd is already shaming those weak players, soon you will have your own private mode with all 100 players or so, and the rest of the game can just fade into the sunset, have fun while you can.

S7= toxic++ to MWO

I've seen 0% toxicity in S7, zero, nada, zilch. So, I'm not sure where this is coming from. More shade seems to be thrown by those who want the accolades of success without putting in the work to in fact be successful (at MWO).

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 22 April 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

Simple solution would be for you to play Solaris. At least try it out. Even if you suck, you will at least increase the chance of fellow sandbags fighting each other, instead of against strong pilots. A lot of people who deride Solaris haven't tried out the mode at any significant length.

More complicated solution would be for PGI to work on Solaris mode so that the participants would feel like getting well rewarded for their efforts to climb the ladder, aside from simply getting placed high in ladder rankings. If Solaris supply crates have better prizes, then plenty of pugs will start to grind for em, thus drastically increasing Solaris population. Finally, PGI must balance the divisions as frequently as they can, especially during the early days, so that the meta per division will not remain stale for long--which will increase the mode's longevity.

Well rewarded only comes with winning in a consistent manner... If the population is low, less skilled players will lose a lot more than win, helping your and your statistics and frustrating us out of S7... Again, there is no "compromise" solution...

I'm not subjecting myself to 50 or 60 losses over several hours to fix a broken system.... I don't know anyone who would...

Well rewarded has merit as an incentive..... But, odds are, I'd end up facing you several times a night and getting stomped over an over again.....(of course, that would be a lot of fun for you...) Don't know.... I guess, we'll sit on the fence until S7 works or S7 fails. I ground for "stuff" in this game but I just can't see wasting the time in S7; there's nothing there I don't already own of have...

[MischiefSC]

kuma8877, on 22 April 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

I've seen 0% toxicity in S7, zero, nada, zilch. So, I'm not sure where this is coming from. More shade seems to be thrown by those who want the accolades of success without putting in the work to in fact be successful (at MWO).

Oh snap!

Projection is a thing.

[Ted Wayz]

MischiefSC, on 22 April 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Here I thought it was a PvP game. That literally the whole point and basis of the game is players playing against other players and one side winning. It is inherently competitive, in a fun, friendly and casual game. Like chess or poker or any sport.

It is a PvP game. But there are also supposed to be gates to keep the try hards from the the "want to have fun and maybe spend some money someday" crowd for a very specific reason. Unfortunately PGI cannot keep them apart because they cannot manage to raise enough players.

So you get to both complain about "potatoes" and stroke your epeen; while not admitting that the reason you appear to be so good is you play a non competitive game and have gates open to feed your ego and your snide remarks about people who really don't want to play with you. Really wonder how many people you and others like you have driven away from the game.

Here is an idea, try having fun. But not at other people's expense.

[El Bandito]

Asym, on 22 April 2018 - 02:43 PM, said:

Well rewarded only comes with winning in a consistent manner... If the population is low, less skilled players will lose a lot more than win, helping your and your statistics and frustrating us out of S7... Again, there is no "compromise" solution...

I'm not subjecting myself to 50 or 60 losses over several hours to fix a broken system.... I don't know anyone who would...

Well rewarded has merit as an incentive..... But, odds are, I'd end up facing you several times a night and getting stomped over an over again.....(of course, that would be a lot of fun for you...) Don't know.... I guess, we'll sit on the fence until S7 works or S7 fails. I ground for "stuff" in this game but I just can't see wasting the time in S7; there's nothing there I don't already own of have...

Bah, people play Overwatch/Hearthstone and lose a lot, and get frustrated a lot, but they still play it every day to get the sweet loot crates. The allure of good rewards makes zombies out of pugs. Blizzard knows that well.

[Nightbird]

It's targeting a niche player base, like FP. The match maker is 'better' when there are people waiting, but just as bad when there isn't. I got 600 Elo difference matches on the way to grinding Tier 6, oh well.

I did get some exciting matches against an especially good pilot. Hats off to you.

[UnofficialOperator]

kuma8877, on 22 April 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

I've seen 0% toxicity in S7, zero, nada, zilch. So, I'm not sure where this is coming from. More shade seems to be thrown by those who want the accolades of success without putting in the work to in fact be successful (at MWO).

Lol I've seen some vulgarity even from a famous AU unit member even though I lost the match. You'd be surprised who gets salty ingame.

Class can't be bought.