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Lights Refusing To Fight Are A Real Problem For Solaris.


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#21 AaronWolf

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 02:17 PM

Most of that I think is bore out of being frustrated, not out of malice generally.

Considering how there is a crowd on both sides "Lights OP" and "Lights not OP, git gud", the truth I think falls more in the middle.

Some Lights are really good, while the majority are bad.

Assaults need to account for Lights bodyhugging and need some mobility benefits when it comes to pitch. (I always recommend getting those in the Mobility tree, along with a bunch of other stuff. Has sincerely helped me.)

#22 Nesutizale

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:46 AM

Just tried out a light mech in D2, thoug I am not a light mech pilot so I suck with them ^_^

Anyway my impression...take a large laser with yout and select Boral as a map. Most assaults don't have ranged weapons and I was standing out of his reach, slowly bringing my enemy down while he refused to move.

So from that experiance I did say. Change your tactics, pick the right map and tease the wall huggers.
Also it would help on maps like Steiner to remove the big rock pillar at the entrance so you have a free sight. Then the tactic would also work.

#23 Prototelis

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:46 AM

View Postcalmdawn, on 23 April 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:


BTW, do they care of this forum? Do they play the game they code?


Yes they read the forum, no they don't reply often.

Played against Russ in Division 6 the other day. Would have won if I didn't fall off the catwalk lol.

#24 MischiefSC

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 12:31 PM

Play poke lights, not knife fighters.

If I try to take a lightly armored poke heavy or assault with high heat I'll get destroyed. Ask any laservomit HBR.

However a poke light either with ermls or erlls or peeps can do a number on assaults. A couple of the top 20 pilots in T3 are in poptart double-peep Shadowcats.

Knife fighting lights are opportunist builds that need a team to work. They are a mech that is carried, not that carries. That's okay - they're potentially effective in a team, especially vs bads. They are not effective in 1 v 1.

A lot of things are not. I'm not bothered by the "hide and wait for a tie" lights because nobody with a high Elo plays them, so a couple dozen wins and I don't see them anymore.

However the realities of Solaris is that not all approaches work. Be that laservomit poke heavies or knife fighting lights. People who don't adjust to that and demand that the game change so they can win even when using a failing strategy is just wrong.

Also, put weapons on your arms. Don't be a ******* idiot. Almost every map in Solaris has positioning that strongly favors arm mounted weapons. If you don't have arm weapons you're a ******* idiot.

#25 Nesutizale

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:53 PM

Yes

#26 Taxxian

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 01:17 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 25 April 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

A lot of things are not. I'm not bothered by the "hide and wait for a tie" lights because nobody with a high Elo plays them, so a couple dozen wins and I don't see them anymore.

Also, put weapons on your arms. Don't be a ******* idiot. Almost every map in Solaris has positioning that strongly favors arm mounted weapons. If you don't have arm weapons you're a ******* idiot.


I totally agree with most the things you wrote except these 2:

I constantly was Top 100 in Div 2 (before I startet playing Battletech^^) and 5% to 10% of the matches where against such Lights. The really bad thing is: They seem to GAIN ELO by not fighting. If you have a Draw against someone with 500 less PSR or so you actually lose 50 PSR or so, and he probably gains them since this is how ELO works... It felt to me like a Draw results in the same Elo changes as if the underdog had won, someone should check that...

So basically you win 4 times in hard fought battles and then someone with low Elo forces a Draw and takes all your earned points... sounds like bad game design to me and I cant understand how thats not bothering you...

Arm Weapons are not helping many cases: Sit in an Annihilator with only arm weapons and try to hit a Piranha directly between your legs in front of you... you will then open Skill Tree and take the 5 Torso Pitch Nodes, only to learn that they dont help!

So since I am playing Battletech at the moment:
Play Lights! Force draws when you have less ELO than your opponent and if he has got an Assault Mech like an Annihilator or Stalker and probably others: Move directly in front of him and kill him whilst beeing safe!

#27 MischiefSC

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 04:04 PM

View PostTaxxian, on 26 April 2018 - 01:17 AM, said:


I totally agree with most the things you wrote except these 2:

I constantly was Top 100 in Div 2 (before I startet playing Battletech^^) and 5% to 10% of the matches where against such Lights. The really bad thing is: They seem to GAIN ELO by not fighting. If you have a Draw against someone with 500 less PSR or so you actually lose 50 PSR or so, and he probably gains them since this is how ELO works... It felt to me like a Draw results in the same Elo changes as if the underdog had won, someone should check that...

So basically you win 4 times in hard fought battles and then someone with low Elo forces a Draw and takes all your earned points... sounds like bad game design to me and I cant understand how thats not bothering you...

Arm Weapons are not helping many cases: Sit in an Annihilator with only arm weapons and try to hit a Piranha directly between your legs in front of you... you will then open Skill Tree and take the 5 Torso Pitch Nodes, only to learn that they dont help!

So since I am playing Battletech at the moment:
Play Lights! Force draws when you have less ELO than your opponent and if he has got an Assault Mech like an Annihilator or Stalker and probably others: Move directly in front of him and kill him whilst beeing safe!


No, you still lose Elo. You just don't lose as much. So if the light you're beating has a much lower Elo than you he still loses a bit of Elo just like if you'd beaten him - just you also lose Elo like he beat you.

ELO is Electric Light Orchestra btw. A band. Popular in the 70s to 80s.

Elo is the last name of Arpad Elo the person who invented the Elo equation the matchmaker is based on.

#28 AaronWolf

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 06:39 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 25 April 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Play poke lights, not knife fighters.


Posted Image

Sad Rambo is sad.

Edited by AaronWolf, 26 April 2018 - 06:39 PM.


#29 So long and thanks for the fish

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 08:13 PM

I saw someone pretty far in leaderboard having about 7% of his win+lost as draws, in division 1. Where nearly every match is between slow assults, with only one hero heavy possible to match plus two mediums.

Most players have little to none draws on most division tops.

So is it really that common to anyone else but who is doing it? I have two draws out of 200 games on all divisions together.

#30 Alexandros

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 01:33 AM

Posted Image

Artic Cheetah Division 3: You chase them ,don't be a wall hugger.

#31 Taxxian

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 02:50 AM

View PostTeer Kerensky, on 26 April 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

So is it really that common to anyone else but who is doing it? I have two draws out of 200 games on all divisions together.


No it does not happen that often, but its absolutely annoying to suicide or wait 10 minutes to loose tons of PSR because your opponent was so low in the Leaderboard...

View PostAlexandros, on 27 April 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

Artic Cheetah Division 3: You chase them ,don't be a wall hugger.


Well you need way more than 1 screenshot to make me believe that this is then expected outcome when you choose to hunt a Light.
Also your Build is probably twice as fast and brawly then what 90% of the Top 100 Div 3 players use... So you gain the ability to (sometimes?) successfully hunt down a light and pay for it by regularly being dismantled by King Crabs?

#32 Utah Steel

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:01 AM

Saying it is suicide to go out and attack the light...
I was thinking it is suicide for a light to attack an assault with it's back to the wall.

Between the two sides, I would say the mech with more armor and more firepower would have the advantage.
The light would need to hit you over and over and over to drill through the heavier mechs armor, while the heavier mech would only need a couple hits on the light. In QP (at least in the higher tiers) 90% of light kills rely on either running in a pack, or ambushing an unaware mech. (I know there are those gifted pilots out there, but most of time this is true).
In Solaris, both of those cases are almost eliminated.

In my opinion Solaris should be changed to have divisions by weight class, and then another open class where you can take anything into it, rather than divisions of mechs setup based on how they perform in QP.

Another solution is to not front load all your armor and go fight.
Just my 2cents

#33 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 04:25 PM

View PostTaxxian, on 27 April 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:


No it does not happen that often, but its absolutely annoying to suicide or wait 10 minutes to loose tons of PSR because your opponent was so low in the Leaderboard...

Well you need way more than 1 screenshot to make me believe that this is then expected outcome when you choose to hunt a Light.
Also your Build is probably twice as fast and brawly then what 90% of the Top 100 Div 3 players use... So you gain the ability to (sometimes?) successfully hunt down a light and pay for it by regularly being dismantled by King Crabs?

Look at his Mad CAT, missing the LEFT torso and the RIGHT was down to yellow internal structure, a heavily armed and armored 90-ton Assault vs a speedy 30 light. The Cheetah took out the LEFT torso equipped with ASRMS-6 and 2 MPL, leaving that assault with only 2 MPL. Without seeing the actual game, if the light had stripped that left torso sooner....

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 28 April 2018 - 04:26 PM.


#34 Throe

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 12:32 AM

View PostBlood Rose, on 23 April 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

>Light refuses to walk into an assaults firing solution
>Assault spends the entire game standing at spawn with its back to the wall expecting the Light to walk out and hapily present its **** for reaming

I think I see the problem here.

That's called a draw. There's no problem here.

View PostAaronWolf, on 23 April 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

Assaults need to account for Lights bodyhugging and need some mobility benefits when it comes to pitch. (I always recommend getting those in the Mobility tree, along with a bunch of other stuff. Has sincerely helped me.)

The only real problem there is that adding Mobility Skills leaves you at an HP disadvantage against other Assaults. The mobility really doesn't help you win fights against them.

It's very much a rock/paper/scissors thing, which I think is perfect. There isn't one 'Mech that's perfect for any division in Solaris 7 yet(or at least, there shouldn't be).

View PostNesutizale, on 24 April 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

Also it would help on maps like Steiner to remove the big rock pillar at the entrance so you have a free sight. Then the tactic would also work.

I could get behind this. The Steiner Colosseum starting area is far too limiting to approaching attackers.

However, rather than removing the pillar in the center of that opening, I'd rather just close in the corners just enough so that hiding within that area still poses a slight risk of being shot from outside of that area.

#35 Ph30nix

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 03:54 PM

View Postcalmdawn, on 23 April 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:


A flat arena could be cool - pure brawl.

no it really wouldnt, because it would just turn into heaviest with biggest alpha wins

Edited by Ph30nix, 29 April 2018 - 03:55 PM.






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