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Lights Refusing To Fight Are A Real Problem For Solaris.


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#1 Taxxian

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:49 AM

Hello,

I already lost an hour of my life playing mobile games during Solaris matches. The opponent plays a Light and refuses to attack me because I am staying near a wall. Can happen in nearly all Divisions except 1 of course.

A player choosing a Mech that requires the opponent to come out in the open and basically kill themselfes by doing so in 95% of all cases cannot be what this game mode is supposed to be...

I could build a Mech that can hunt Lights, but that Mech would loose against everything but a light.. so nobody will do it. All thats left is play normaly and play mobile games for 10 min once an hour or so...


PGI please do something!

#2 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:09 AM

You are staying near a wall camping and playing mobile games and here you are on forums bitching about lights refusing to fight. You are equally guilty of refusing to fight. Why don't you get a mech with arm mounted weapons and fight instead?

#3 Naqser

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:11 AM

Putting all responsability on the opponent to come to you.
Sorry, I'm not buying it.

You're ready for him to come to you, is no different from him being ready for you to come to him.
Him being killed because he plays to your terms, is no different from you dying playing on his terms.

You're both in the exact same position.

So, why should he come to you?

Alas, I say the issue is the map design.
As I said in another post in another thread.
Map should require effort from both players. Standing with your back against a wall requires little effort on your part and massive amounts from the light.
I like caves because these "safe spaces" aren't there in the same way, atleast not what I've encountered. I as a light have to be good at juking, and whatnot while the assaults and heavies have to have good predictability skills.
I've lost on that map, and I have won on it in a light.


#4 calmdawn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:30 AM

You can take a pair to your team and cover each other. In that situation lights wont play Solaris at all.

I guess, he didn't want community to blame someone, but his goal was to forbid such situation.

BTW, do they care of this forum? Do they play the game they code?

Edited by calmdawn, 23 April 2018 - 04:33 AM.


#5 Taxxian

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:36 AM

No we are not in the same position:

1. My Build allows me to to go and fight 95% of all opponents. A light Build requires the opponent to stupidly run after you in 95% of all cases...

2. The Light is between 2 (Division 7) and 5 (Division 2) times faster than me... it is mathematically absolutely impossible to catch someone that much faster... Trying is nothing but suicide.


I also dont complain about those Lights directly they play by the rules and do what they have to to win...

But the choice is suicide or wait 10 minutes... both players will choose waiting and thats not fun so the rules are at fault here.


@Yondu
I dont know where you are but yesterday evening I was 31 in the overall Solo Leaderboard, so please believe me that arm mounted weapons are a little help but not the solution.

#6 Toha Heavy Industries

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:38 AM

View PostTaxxian, on 23 April 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

PGI please do something!


Let's remove walls.

#7 calmdawn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 05:03 AM

View PostToha Heavy Industries, on 23 April 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:


Let's remove walls.


A flat arena could be cool - pure brawl.

#8 Naqser

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:20 AM

View PostTaxxian, on 23 April 2018 - 04:36 AM, said:

No we are not in the same position:

1. My Build allows me to to go and fight 95% of all opponents. A light Build requires the opponent to stupidly run after you in 95% of all cases...

2. The Light is between 2 (Division 7) and 5 (Division 2) times faster than me... it is mathematically absolutely impossible to catch someone that much faster... Trying is nothing but suicide.


I also dont complain about those Lights directly they play by the rules and do what they have to to win...

But the choice is suicide or wait 10 minutes... both players will choose waiting and thats not fun so the rules are at fault here.


@Yondu
I dont know where you are but yesterday evening I was 31 in the overall Solo Leaderboard, so please believe me that arm mounted weapons are a little help but not the solution.


You're both in the same situation, neither of you are moving to fight the other on their terms.
You say it's suicide to go out to fight a light.
Lights feel the same way coming to fight you.

If you don't complain about the lights directly, you chose a poor Title and text for your OP.

Also, if 95 % of your opponents are things you can kill, it means roughly 5 lights out of 100 opponents.
A tie will result in loss of ELO for both, and take 10 minutes.
I'd assume that a ratio like that would net you a positive ELO over those 100 matches, unless you lose a major part with those ties.

Now, of course you can complain about the rules, and that lights should be in a different Division.
Though I think a healthy division would be one where there are several viable mechs to use, even if it is Rock Paper Siccors, atleast over one or two dominating mechs.

I however would like to point out that the maps themselves play a large role in how useful tactics are.

As I pointed out, I have yet to encounter anyone using map border "safe spaces" in the same frequency as on other maps.
In the occasions players have backed up, I have still had the opportunity to do something against them.
I've lost to assaults cause they've predicted where I'd be, and as a result, got decapitated or completely killed, as well as won because they got lost.

I call for more maps and mechanics on the maps which allow both parties to shine against each other without non-effort tactics being used, such as map border hugging. You don't want to fight the light in his element and he doesn't want to fight you in your element.

For example, if Light humping your legs are a problem, there could be entrencements on the map in which only an assault could stand, slightly elevating the small light. However, other elements on the map would allow the light to atleast shoot at you using duck and cover tactics.

I think that'd foster a healthier pool of mechs to choose from, and possible builds.

#9 calmdawn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:42 AM

View PostNaqser, on 23 April 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

You're both in the same situation, neither of you are moving to fight the other on their terms.
You say it's suicide to go out to fight a light.
Lights feel the same way coming to fight you.


They are both in the same situation from your point of view and not the same from other point of view, the question is who cares of point of view if they both are not happy?

I think we should give conditions for everyone so everyone might be happy standing on his own.

Edited by calmdawn, 23 April 2018 - 06:43 AM.


#10 zugnish

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:47 AM

If the gladiators refuse to fight, mighty Caesar has them both put to death.

If the mechwarriors fail to fire a single shot for as long a whole minute, mighty Duncan Fisher um...has some sick burns for them?

#11 Nesutizale

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:54 AM

Just give people that don't fight their ELO lowered and a penalty by paying money instead of receiving it.
Also most arenas has some kind of cover in the middle or in other places so until the light reaches you, you can move around and then you may cover your a..back.
Also why are assaults complain here while its the same in QP/FW? When you are alone because your team does the nascar you get also slaughtered by lights. Strangely I don't see much complain there.

#12 Naqser

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:57 AM

View Postcalmdawn, on 23 April 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:


They are both in the same situation from your point of view and not the same from other point of view, the question is who cares of point of view if they both are not happy?

I think we should give conditions for everyone so everyone might be happy standing on his own.


Okay then, how are they not in the same situation?
Both refuse to fight the other because both feel like attacking the other is suicide.
And going with the OP, why is it the lights' responsability?

You have as much choice as they do to do things.

#13 Stefka Kerensky

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:10 AM

View PostTaxxian, on 23 April 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

Hello,

I already lost an hour of my life playing mobile games during Solaris matches. The opponent plays a Light and refuses to attack me because I am staying near a wall. Can happen in nearly all Divisions except 1 of course.

A player choosing a Mech that requires the opponent to come out in the open and basically kill themselfes by doing so in 95% of all cases cannot be what this game mode is supposed to be...

I could build a Mech that can hunt Lights, but that Mech would loose against everything but a light.. so nobody will do it. All thats left is play normaly and play mobile games for 10 min once an hour or so...


PGI please do something!

LOL!!!

Lights refuse to fight....while YOU, standing back close to a wall, what?
YOU yourself are refusing to fight as well!!!

KEK whiner thread! :D

#14 BlueStrat

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:30 AM

This isn't about the players, it's about map + game design. The players are simply doing what is logical from their point of view given the game design and the map. Blaming players just allows PGI to shift blame for PGI's poor game and map design.

Stop attacking and throwing salt at each other for something that's totally PGI's doing.

I knew, given what I've seen of PGI's level of competence, this sort of thing was inevitable. It's why I have not participated in S7 and likely won't until a year or so has passed and S7 has either had issues resolved or "it's dead, Jim" and the issues are moot.

Edited by BlueStrat, 23 April 2018 - 09:32 AM.


#15 Throe

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:06 AM

View PostNaqser, on 23 April 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:


A tie will result in loss of ELO for both, and take 10 minutes.



I'm surprised by this. Is there somewhere we can reference the exact mechanism for all the gains/losses in ELO, and perhaps just as important(because I would expect it to be in the same place) a list of all the Divisions' 'Mechs?

#16 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:01 AM

View PostTaxxian, on 23 April 2018 - 04:36 AM, said:

@Yondu
I dont know where you are but yesterday evening I was 31 in the overall Solo Leaderboard, so please believe me that arm mounted weapons are a little help but not the solution.

I was first in Div 1 on Friday. I faced cheese mechs such as full splat ACW that tried to outmaneuvre me while I was on an ANH but I defeated them regardless. Perhaps you would like to work on your piloting skills instead of playing mobile games waiting for lights to move into your arc of fire?

Edited by Yondu the Ravager, 23 April 2018 - 11:01 AM.


#17 DaemonWulfe

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:52 AM

Skeered to go out and fight lights? You're playing the wrong game mode, bro.

#18 Blood Rose

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:20 PM

>Light refuses to walk into an assaults firing solution
>Assault spends the entire game standing at spawn with its back to the wall expecting the Light to walk out and hapily present its **** for reaming

I think I see the problem here.

#19 AaronWolf

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:25 PM

There is validity to both sides of this argument. A smart light pilot won't go into a death funnel just to engage. Being a Light pilot is more about picking your fights where its advantageous to you than any other mech out there.

Why? Because one AC20 can take off your side torso armor and sometimes even your center torso. (Good example is Ravens, their armor is paper thin in comparison to what a lot of mechs in its Division can output and take.)

And that also calls to the fore that not all Lights are made equal. There are many that are just death traps and CBill sinks.

While on the other side, the Assault/Heavy pilot knows their lack of mobility is their main weakness and is doing their best to mitigate that and give themselves the edge in the fight. Some Assaults can't effectively target some lights if their up on their legs as well (arm mounted weapons assist this, but not outright fix it, mobility skills though greatly mitigate this very thing).

There is no incentive to go outside/away from the wall to engage a target which is reliant on picking the fight in a advantageous area.

This is just a byproduct of two pilots doing whats best for their mech chassis.

#20 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 02:05 PM

https://mwomercs.com...n-will-get-you/

What is funny is there are other threads where light pilots are "attempting" to shame Assault pilots out into the open, away from the wall.





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