41 replies to this topic

[JRcam4643]

Asym, on 24 April 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Why are the divisions mixed by weights? SALES... It forces disparity and disparity leads to insecurity, which leads to compulsion to resolve the disparity and that solution, is to buy a "better xxxxxx mech"..... After all, you are a light mech pilot ! You can't become an assault pilot right? Yuk....who'd do that plodding around for an entire game just to get to the freaking fight......

Sales. If all of the assaults were in one class, there would be no one to farm..... Even potatoes can blow crap up at 3 meters with a meta assault mech.....but mix the weight classes and tell the community "it's about the challenge" and the S7 mode runs amok until the ELO may or may not "balance the playing field out..." Right, as if we have a large enough population to do that....

SALES.... It's about sales potential.

yeah thats conclusion I came to as well. Only thing that makes sense.

[Dogstar]

Asym, on 24 April 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Why are the divisions mixed by weights? SALES... It forces disparity and disparity leads to insecurity, which leads to compulsion to resolve the disparity and that solution, is to buy a "better xxxxxx mech"..... After all, you are a light mech pilot ! You can't become an assault pilot right? Yuk....who'd do that plodding around for an entire game just to get to the freaking fight......

Sales. If all of the assaults were in one class, there would be no one to farm..... Even potatoes can blow crap up at 3 meters with a meta assault mech.....but mix the weight classes and tell the community "it's about the challenge" and the S7 mode runs amok until the ELO may or may not "balance the playing field out..." Right, as if we have a large enough population to do that....

SALES.... It's about sales potential.

If thats the way it's working out (and it looks like you're dead right) then I'm assuming it was by accident, PGI don't strike me as clever enough to pull off something cunning like that by design.

[sharknoise]

At first I thought Solaris should be simply assaults vs assaults, heavies vs heavies, mediums vs mediums, lights vs lights, but now I see that divisions covering several weight classes are more entertaining. It simply allows for more variety in pace and tactics.

And lighter mechs doing OK is not even a miracle and one-time exception, it seems to happen in almost every division. Last time I checked top 15, there were Piranha and a Warhammer in Div 2, a Wolfhound, a Shadowcat, Bushwackers in Div 3. Div 4 wasn't dominated by its assaults at all. In further divisions select light pilots also manage to do well against mediums. In fact the only division totally ruled by assaults is Div 1 aka Anni Club. Do you really want all divisions to be like it? Not even sure Annis would be so dominant if there were really fast mechs in their division to punish their sluggishness.

Finally, I don't understand why you would care so much about playing at a disadvantage. Suppose playing a lighter mech is always harder, even 3 times harder. Doesn't it also make it 3 times more satisfying to finally win against the odds? If you need a lot of wins to see your name in leaderboards top... Well, your name will look much more impressive if you manage to do it in a light, not in the heaviest, most widespread mech.

Even if PGI changes it to strictly 1 weight class in a division, there always will be a stronger and heavier mech in such divisions. The only solution I see for people who value equal conditions above all else, is to add an option to fight against the same chassis, same variant, no matter how long it takes to find a match. Then maybe give them a separate leaderboard.

[Dogstar]

sharknoise, on 28 April 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

Finally, I don't understand why you would care so much about playing at a disadvantage. Suppose playing a lighter mech is always harder, even 3 times harder. Doesn't it also make it 3 times more satisfying to finally win against the odds?

For most people that's just 3 times as annoying and 3 times as frustrating. There's very little satisfaction in losing 3 match in 4 because your mech is sub par

[DrxAbstract]

El Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

Play different division then. Each division has different meta.

*Cough* Switch ANH for JM6 and Div 4 is exactly the same as Div 1-- A lot of people run AC2/LB-2X Jager as their default.

Doesn't help that the sub-par Solaris Hit Detection makes running Alpha-type weapons like SRMs, PPCs and larger caliber ACs a gamble. Watching 3 consecutive SRM volleys deal 0 damage on a semi-stationary target from 60m is rather discouraging considering even one of those shots could be the difference between a win or loss.

[El Bandito]

DrxAbstract, on 28 April 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

*Cough* Switch ANH for JM6 and Div 4 is exactly the same as Div 1-- A lot of people run AC2/LB-2X Jager as their default.

Doesn't help that the sub-par Solaris Hit Detection makes running Alpha-type weapons like SRMs, PPCs and larger caliber ACs a gamble. Watching 3 consecutive SRM volleys deal 0 damage on a semi-stationary target from 60m is rather discouraging considering even one of those shots could be the difference between a win or loss.

Cmon mate, you can't stay sore about the fact I legged your Zeus twice with my Jager. Besides, there are seven divisions, and only Div 1 and Div 3 are entrenched with dakka. The rest can be overcome with a bit of thinking.

[MrMadguy]

At least we have fair MM rating there. Not that crappy PSR, that ranks me as Tier 2 player. 1300-1400 rating and 16000-20000th place in leaderboard - is my real performance. Is it fun? Yeah, it's more fun, than QP with it's stupid noobs, who hide somewhere around spawn points in their 100 ton Assaults, while I have to face whole enemy team at the center of the map, leading to 1:6 situation at the moment, when I'm dead. Yeah, there are weird matches, such as Assault vs Heavy or even Assault vs Medium, but overall it's fun. And rewards are good too. I earn almost the same amount of CBs in 2-3 min 1vs1 match, as in some long boring 12vs12 QP match. I currently don't have good 'Mechs in all divisions and have to play "retro" ones, like Atlas and Jagermech, that definitely underperform against Clan 'Mechs with their "free" XL engines, but...I had been playing this old 'Mechs for so long and I'm so experienced in playing them, that I can even beat very strong enemies in them.

Edited by MrMadguy, 28 April 2018 - 07:18 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

Cmon mate, you can't stay sore about the fact I legged your Zeus twice with my Jager. Besides, there are seven divisions, and only Div 1 and Div 3 are entrenched with dakka. The rest can be overcome with a bit of thinking.

I was never sore about anything having to do with you. I'm not particularly happy with the fact damage repeatedly failed to register between all 3 weapon types and it was literally costing me matches. It doesn't just happen in my Zeus or specifically with you. Add to this I have 9 losses now from the chassis introduction cinematic bugging into an endless loading screen, seeing my accomplishments diminished by technical glitches has left me with a sour, disenchanted view of Solaris.

You'd think I'd be used to it after all the years of dealing with PGI... Apparently not.

Anywho, between the JM6's and HGN-IICs, Div 4 is dominated by ACs. The CPLT-A1/BB and Zeus are solid contenders, however I've yet to encounter someone resorting to anything but the Jager when they're "Pulling out all the stops."

[Lightfoot]

The maps are too small. This makes the tactics one dimensional and repetitive which really takes the player out of the equation. This is why Solaris 7 is already played out. Each match is mostly a repeat of the first, every mech has the same brawler build, and almost everyone Legs because it is a primary attack method for short range. So you just drop and face-hug some mech.

Anyway, really surprised no one could foresee this result. Now if there were some full range maps players would not be so eager to mount the same brawler build on every mech, every match. Builds would be varied and unique and each match would be a surprise. The challenge level would soar, the mech variety would include every mech, or almost.

[PAYWALL]

Savage Wolf, on 25 April 2018 - 03:39 AM, said:

I found Solaris meh, until I tried to defy the meta and tried to see how far I could get in an ATM Shadowcat against King Crabs. Turns out, pretty far. Many use slow assaults equipped for brawling so they have a hard time dealing with a fast medium which poptart missiles. Probably not going to get me to the top of the leaderboard, but at least it's fun.

I think i battled you once or at least another shadowcat with ATM that tried to kite me. It was one of the better fights in this arena mode. I nearly ran out of ammo trying to shoot that thing out of the sky.

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

The maps are too small. This makes the tactics one dimensional and repetitive which really takes the player out of the equation. This is why Solaris 7 is already played out. Each match is mostly a repeat of the first, every mech has the same brawler build, and almost everyone Legs because it is a primary attack method for short range. So you just drop and face-hug some mech.

Anyway, really surprised no one could foresee this result. Now if there were some full range maps players would not be so eager to mount the same brawler build on every mech, every match. Builds would be varied and unique and each match would be a surprise. The challenge level would soar, the mech variety would include every mech, or almost.

In 2on2 i had a match vs two ebon jaguars with long range laservomit, that kited our snv boilers with close range builds. And its not legs every match but very, very often.

[El Bandito]

DrxAbstract, on 28 April 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

I was never sore about anything having to do with you. I'm not particularly happy with the fact damage repeatedly failed to register between all 3 weapon types and it was literally costing me matches.

Just yanking your chain, mate. I know you meant it in general

DrxAbstract, on 28 April 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

It doesn't just happen in my Zeus or specifically with you. Add to this I have 9 losses now from the chassis introduction cinematic bugging into an endless loading screen, seeing my accomplishments diminished by technical glitches has left me with a sour, disenchanted view of Solaris.

The clip through ghost shots happen a lot more on Jungle map, so if you want your shots to register more, stop using that map. As I recall both times we fought, we did it on that map.

DrxAbstract, on 28 April 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Anywho, between the JM6's and HGN-IICs, Div 4 is dominated by ACs. The CPLT-A1/BB and Zeus are solid contenders, however I've yet to encounter someone resorting to anything but the Jager when they're "Pulling out all the stops."

That's just people being unimaginative, and going along with the meta instead of finding a counter for it. I found the counter for Div 3 and Div 7 meta, and I'm having a fun time.

[Khobai]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

The maps are too small. This makes the tactics one dimensional and repetitive which really takes the player out of the equation. This is why Solaris 7 is already played out. Each match is mostly a repeat of the first, every mech has the same brawler build, and almost everyone Legs because it is a primary attack method for short range. So you just drop and face-hug some mech.

agreed. maps are way too small. mech divisions are poorly balanced. And 1v1 and 2v2 are just plain banal.

solaris needed larger maps and 8 player free for all. and mech divisions that actually made sense...

Edited by Khobai, 28 April 2018 - 05:38 PM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 28 April 2018 - 05:38 PM, said:

agreed. maps are way too small. mech divisions are poorly balanced. And 1v1 and 2v2 are just plain banal.

solaris needed larger maps and 8 player free for all. and mech divisions that actually made sense...

I would not mind so much the insane (and that's me being polite) division assignments if the maps were much much bigger. But for now I'm letting my lights gather more dust. Life's already too short to get stressed by a video game.

Walking solo into The Division's Dark Zone is a picnic in comparison.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 28 April 2018 - 06:34 PM, said:

I would not mind so much the insane (and that's me being polite) division assignments if the maps were much much bigger. But for now I'm letting my lights gather more dust. Life's already too short to get stressed by a video game.

Walking solo into The Division's Dark Zone is a picnic in comparison.

Try Div 7, where there are plenty of Lights to fight against.

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

The maps are too small. This makes the tactics one dimensional and repetitive which really takes the player out of the equation. This is why Solaris 7 is already played out. Each match is mostly a repeat of the first, every mech has the same brawler build, and almost everyone Legs because it is a primary attack method for short range. So you just drop and face-hug some mech.

I personally love perfecting my playstyle in Solaris, through repetition. It is like Training Grounds, but more fun.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2018 - 08:12 PM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

Try Div 7 ...

I actually am at mostly DIV 6 and 7.

El Bandito, on 28 April 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

... where there are plenty of Lights to fight against.

I want to fight with a light against the big guys. But as previously mentioned, I am finding the arenas too small for my taste.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2018 - 03:55 AM.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 29 April 2018 - 03:54 AM, said:

I want to fight with a light against the big guys. But as previously mentioned, I am finding the arenas too small for my taste.

Eww, don't tell me the reason you want big maps is cause you wanna put ER lasers or PPCs on your light mech, and poptart from 700 meters away. That's basically the worst type of Solaris match possible, cause win or lose, it will take 10 full minutes, and rewards from it are gonna be pitiful, compared to the time spent.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 April 2018 - 04:57 AM.

[Elizander]

It's great practice for shooting off components off various mechs.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 29 April 2018 - 04:47 AM, said:

Eww, don't tell me the reason you want big maps is cause you wanna put ER lasers or PPCs on your light mech, and poptart from 700 meters away. That's basically the worst type of Solaris match possible, cause win or lose, it will take 10 full minutes, and rewards from it are gonna be pitiful, compared to the time spent.

Nope, I just want to be able to run, stop, and take a breather every now and then.

Then back to stalking and stabbing.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2018 - 07:55 AM.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 29 April 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

Nope, I just want to be able to run, stop, and take a breather every now and then.

Then back to stalking and stabbing.

Factory, and Steiner both allow such behavior already.

[Wil McCullough]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

The maps are too small. This makes the tactics one dimensional and repetitive which really takes the player out of the equation. This is why Solaris 7 is already played out. Each match is mostly a repeat of the first, every mech has the same brawler build, and almost everyone Legs because it is a primary attack method for short range. So you just drop and face-hug some mech.

Anyway, really surprised no one could foresee this result. Now if there were some full range maps players would not be so eager to mount the same brawler build on every mech, every match. Builds would be varied and unique and each match would be a surprise. The challenge level would soar, the mech variety would include every mech, or almost.

Played 15 games of s7 so far and even as a brawler, i agree that map sizes are too small.

Wayyyyyyyy too stupid easy to force the brawl when you can traverse maps in seconds. Not to mention the only good maps for long range poke are like steiner arena and that ice map.

The go-to strategy for most divisions seems to be this:

1) build and skill up a dakka or short range lbx/srm brawler
2) spend ban votes on steiner and the ice map
3) force a brawl
4) win more than you should

You do that and you'll only lose to players with way better skill than you because most divs don't have a meta-countering build/playstyle.