147 replies to this topic

[ThomasAH]

I prefer Tarogato's version, the main benefit is that it shows everything important at a glance, thus not causing something like "now I have to look at 10 screens of mech informations per top player per division when playing against them to have the same chance, because they're doing the same".

But seeing the full build + skill tree would be OK for me, too.

[VXJaeger]

IMHO just leave it there.

Edit: Nope, Tarogato's idea is better.
https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6081076

Edited by VXJaeger, 26 April 2018 - 05:51 AM.

[Zergling]

I'd like to see this bug implemented as a proper feature, because it is quite interesting and educational to see the exact builds players are using.

TBH, I'd also like to see the Solaris leaderboards improved with a name search function too.

Edited by Zergling, 26 April 2018 - 12:04 AM.

[Darth Hotz]

Damm.

When I posted about it (https://mwomercs.com...__fromsearch__1), I wasnt aware that it was a bug. I thought its "working as intended".

Please keep it.

Dont know about others, but I am a 47 year old family man and my time budget for computer games is very restricted. So I can either drop in Solaris with bad builds and have to spend a lot of my valuable time to experiment whats working and whats not. Or I can get inspiration by checking out the top player builds and spend more time on the battlefield than in the mechlab.

I understand that top players may not like this, but for the casual its a great feature a.k.a. bug.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Tarogato, on 25 April 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I propose a compromise.

Fix the bug so that you can't view the build in mechlab. But provide more information on the player card. Because this is laughable:




Why the breakdown by component? That is worthless information, and actually makes the loadout more difficult to read.




Here is a mockup of how I would do it:




Provides all the critical info, without giving away all the details or providing too much information, which still allows for inexperienced players to figure out some things for themselves.

I'm behind this idea. This would give more that enough information, especially build information for players to reconstruct a build almost exactly, but would not reveal information which might be important in a match versus a particular player such as ammo locations.

However, a Mechlab view is preferable to just the build information present currently on the player card, as a temporary measure if a feature like this would take time to implement.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 26 April 2018 - 01:19 AM.

[Joey]

With the idea of Solaris being about who is the best pilot, I full-heartedly feel that the full build information of the mechs should be displayed. It will help newer players to the Mech Lab / skill tree on how they might be able to build their mechs and improve their experience with the game as a whole.

Knowing that I'm dating myself a bit, I go back to Multi-player Battletech on AOL, where mechs in the Solaris format were standardized and not customizable. I'm definitely not advocating for this, but it did help to level the playing field and typically showed who the better (or luckier) MechWarrior is. By allowing the display of Mech builds in Solaris (or even the game in general), it helps to keep the game balanced.

[justcallme A S H]

+1 to Taro's suggestion.

Horseman, on 25 April 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

In addition to what Taro has shown above, what if there was some indication of how popular (in terms of statistical information on active node count ) each tree is among the players who run the given chassis in Solaris overall?

Well could already tell you that...

Firepower / Survival / Ops - For the most part in Assault - Meds. Lights a bit different depending (mobility over survival)

Sometimes sensors, depending on what you are doing. But yeah most of it is just those 3 main trees really for most weight classes.

That's all it's been really for the last 12 months at the upper end of MWO.

[GweNTLeR]

Mechwarrior game is not just about aim. It is about intel, tactics and positioning. You want Intel - you get into a decent unit, learn and slowly start to git gut. Personally, I'm not a good aimer, but with using highly optimised builds I manage to somehow get top damage in CW and QP matches, and even somewhat stay somewhere in good position in solaris. Allowing to peek on your rival's build basically simplifies Solaris down to who's a best aimer. In the end - I'm against anything that can compromise my mech in solaris.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 26 April 2018 - 01:31 AM.

[Vindalloo]

I think thats a great option. I'm always interessted in new indeas and builds. Also why not share.
Thas a thumbs up.

[Soviet Alex]

I'm not convinced by the arguments in favour of seeing a competitor's build & skill tree in Mechlab. Showing us the summary is enough to retro-engineer the design. The bulk of my opponents in the arenas are already running cookie-cutter builds, so they clearly don't need more information about cloning a successful design.

What I would suggest is that you leave the available information as intended. Players reaching the top 10 in a division can release more data by making a YouTube short about it, if they wish to share their thoughts in more detail. Consider adding a link to such a clip in the Player Card, or promoting such content through social media so anyone interested can find it.

[Nesutizale]

Yes and no to giveing people full builds.

On the one hand just giveing them an overview of the weapons beeing used by top tier people gives you a starting point and leads you to learning how to use similar builds. From there you can start learning how to do your own builds.

On the other hand we have stuff like metamech or Youtube where you can find lots of working builds in full details, including skilling.

Personaly I tend towards giveing only the loadout but nothing more. If people are into the game and want to learn more, let them do some research. They will learn more about the game from that then just copy&past a given mech.

[Bud Crue]

I'm indifferent to the feature as I only play Solaris to fill time when no one is on playing group queue, as such I never bother to look at players or builds and just go with whatever I have.

That said, if you are going to keep this feature, I think the format as presented by Tarogato above is far more user friendly and visually appealing.

[Soviet Alex]

Another option: keep the Solaris build data visibility as intended, but have the full monty on Kanajashi's forthcoming MWO wiki. Smurfy, tactics, pros & cons, whatever. It's a shame that Metamechs has gone quiet, because that would have been another ideal venue. But have just the basic info in-game, with a more detailed analysis on a Solaris Meta-Builds wiki page.

[MustrumRidcully]

I think any particularly awesome builds will become common knowlege anyway. The weapon loadout of mechs is something you figure out during the match, if you care to, and the rest tends to be something you can figure out by just playing around yourself.

I would say that player card build information could still be somewhat more basic than the full mech lab view.

For example, weapon locations could be listed (they are clearly visible from the outside anyway), but ammo location or heat sink locations wouldn't.
Armor information might be limited to maybe 3-5 different shades, one for every 33 to 20 % of max armor per location. Something like that could probably be gained from observing a match carefully.

If the divisions are reasonably balanced, any particular popular and strong build should have a counter-build, and once pepole start copying the new FOTM en masse, the clever player already devises his counter-build that can beat the FOTM.
And if the divisions aren't reasonably balanced and there is a single superior build, the next season can adjust things.

[banana peel]

I build mechs far better than i pilot them, but i vote for sharing everything, including skill trees. It highly improves quality of matches. Solaris is meant to be a fighting skill competition, not mechlabbing.

While we are at it, it would be very nice to have a similar feature for quickplay through QP leaderboard - top-5 mechs played by a pilot in past X seasons or smth.

[SICk Nick]

I edited into my post above, so I’ll say it here in case no one looked...

My take is if you want to see someone’s build you need to pay a bills to see it.
Kind of like paying someone to go do the investigative research for you. The more C-bills you pay, the more info you get. That way people can’t look at builds indiscriminately. They actually have to invest something for a look.
If someone has a build they truly to be unique and worthy of secrecy, maybe they can invest C-bills to make it harder to uncover as well. Just a thought.

If you’re a fighter and want to learn about your opponent you can def find info about him. You could even hire a PI if you wanted to find out what he eats everyday if you wanted to go that far.

So why not the same here?


I just thought of something else; what about adding a use for Beagle Probes and other sensor equipment? If you use such items you get a certain level of basic information on that mech for free after the match? Maybe even different levels of detail based on how long he’s targeted, but to get the full smurfy load out you still have to pay.

Edited by SICk Nick, 26 April 2018 - 04:45 AM.

[Panoy V Knicks]

I like it to be shown. It will help losers improve their game experience and make the game more even.

[Horseman]

Nesutizale, on 26 April 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

On the other hand we have stuff like metamech or Youtube where you can find lots of working builds in full details, including skilling.

Metamechs is not relevent at this point, and has not been up to date with newtech or new mechs released in past year or so. As for YouTube... anyone can post a video, doesn't mean they're competent or even honest.

[anfadern]

My five cents on the topic.

It is OK to show where the weapons are located, my paint job, and what type of mech I am piloting

Leave the rest alone.
I do not want my enemy to know how I distribute my armor and where the ammo is located.
Nor do I Think that the game will improve by showing how I have skilled my mech.

[Lepestok]

Remove mechlab from Solaris. It's not fun. Fights should be on stock mech's. In addition, this will allow you to easily adjust the balance.