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Exposing Player Builds In Solaris Player Card Information


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#81 Cyrilis

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 01:31 PM

Following Scenario:
someone has an spare PC and an alt-account... They see your name, know your exact ELO and have enough time to find you on the respective leaderboard, check out your build. They bring a bunch of machineguns and aim only for the component with ammo. Might not be often, but we all know, this will be exploited!

That scenario must be prevented by any means!

thus:
Yes to summary on player card
No to mechlab view !!!

Edited by Cyrilis, 26 April 2018 - 01:34 PM.


#82 Ensaine

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 01:59 PM

View PostVXJaeger, on 25 April 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

IMHO just leave it there.

Edit: Nope, Tarogato's idea is better.
https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6081076


I like Tarogato's idea also, but, I'm ok with all of the build being visible also. Can only improve competition....

#83 Throe

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:01 PM

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:13 PM.


#84 Surn

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:16 PM

Absolutely, display the mech build, but skill tree is going too far.

#85 Throe

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:29 PM

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:13 PM.


#86 o0cipher0o

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 03:00 PM

I'm all for letting players see other players loadouts. Maybe skill tree info is a bit too much, but the loadout should be visible.

I mean, in a real arena tournament people would pretty much know what loadout a pilot would be using from past matches.

#87 Exilyth

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 03:10 PM

Imho, just give players a checkbox to toggle whether their build is public or not and default it to 'private'. That way people will be able to show off their build if they want.

#88 Throe

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 03:29 PM

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:13 PM.


#89 MischiefSC

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 03:57 PM

I say make it visible.

If someone doesn't know anything about building good mechs and skill trees, this is a great way for them to see what actually gets used by successful players.

If someone already does know that they would likely come to the same conclusions on their own with enough trial and error - however seeing that Exceptionally Good Player A always uses X and Y in concert with Z will help growing players also learn and develop without needing to actually get on Teamspeak/Discord with top tier players and bug them with questions.

This is just for Solaris. We're not talking about MWOWC, Comp queue or MRBC where such things might be relevant. While Solaris is a competitive environment it's not home to competitive strats and decks; as in knowing exactly how someone builds a mech doesn't really give you a real edge over them you didn't have already if you're experienced, or that you need to know if you're new.

I think it would be a very good thing.

Also Tarogatos idea is excellent.

Edited by MischiefSC, 26 April 2018 - 03:59 PM.


#90 Lightfoot

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 04:12 PM

No and no.

I would also like to add that the Skills tested in Solaris 7 are not just how adept a pilot is at pulling the trigger and placing the reticule. Mechlab is also a very competitive skill and why we level our mechs up. It seems wrong to just reveal that information at no cost or challenge. Players have all they should need by using the 'R' key and getting the target info anyway. Just handing the info out to everyone on a data cheat sheet spoils the fun and it's not fair to the players who put the time in to figuring out what config can compete the best.

Edited by Lightfoot, 26 April 2018 - 04:17 PM.


#91 Paul Inouye

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 04:40 PM

Still reading... thanks for the info so far. Very interesting views for sure and very helpful to us making a choice.

And yes, Tarogato's layout is nice.. but might have to compromise with location info... other than that I'm really liking the generic skill tree info rather than the full layout.

#92 K O N D O

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:06 PM

View PostTarogato, on 25 April 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:


Posted Image

.


Tarogato’s idea is probably the best compromise. It gives enough data for new players without exposing too much info.
Some players spend a lot of time grinding XP and CBills testing what weapons and skill tree works for each build, and to expose this detailed effort I think is wrong. There is nothing stopping a new player from messaging someone to get a build or skill tree. If that person wants to share their effort they can do so.
What would be good is to have a ‘Share Build / Skill Tree’ button that you can link to other players.

#93 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:07 PM

IMO Builds and loadouts should not be displayed.

Match preparation (Mechlab/Skilltree) is a significant component in determining the winner in a game, of equally skilled opponents.

If we just wished to determine battlefield prowess, then having all players run the same mechs and builds would make sense.

The fact that any customization of mechs and skills is allowed implies that a competitive edge can be found in these areas.
Allowing the opponent to view "your competative edge nullifiies said edge
Making customization less valuable since anyone can copy it, without working for it.


View Posto0cipher0o, on 26 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

I mean, in a real arena tournament people would pretty much know what loadout a pilot would be using from past matches.


I mean a mechs build is easy enough to get by targeting the mech first match, copying the build and using it the second match and beyond.

As for skills an observant pilot can ascertain skills thru observation.

For example "I have the same mech and build but the opponent can fire more often than me, well he probalblt got some heat gen and cool me down skills.


Example 2: "I have the same mech and build but the opponent can out turn me, well he probably got more mobility.

Example 3: This mechs taking a long time to die, youy guessed it Armour skills etc.

By allowing opponents to view builds and skills you are removing a major element which makes Solaris competative.

Effort should be rewarded, on the field and in the lab since both contribute to determining the winner.

Edit: Brainstorm Posted Image Make a Divison 8 with only certain trail mechs allowed.
That 'll please some. Posted Image

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 April 2018 - 05:14 PM.


#94 feeWAIVER

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:16 PM

No, I have a custom talent tree build that I like to use.
I don't want anyone to look at my build and steal it.


#95 Whizbang AGNC

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 06:27 PM

I agree that since this information is not viewable anywhere else in the game it shouldn't be viewable here as well. If I had a custom car I might let you look at it, but I wouldn't let you rifle through it.

#96 AirVengeance

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:01 PM

I could care less about builds but I'm not to keen on people see how I skill a mech out. I mean the meta is bad enough as it is do we really need to copy every skill point?

#97 Master Smitty

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:26 PM

I think seeing the opponent's Mech type and load-out are fine. Even, their most used weapon's perhaps.
But, seeing the Mech's armor amount's, Placement of ammo, heat sinks and engine type, isn't a good thing.

I know some people think it's a great teaching tool. But it's not really. Being beat doesn't make that load out a good one to use. A Mech's complete Load out (Weapons an placement of ammo ect) are based on a person's playing style and not are not necessarily the best load-out for a mech in general for all players.
The Community has a LOT of great reliable sources, for people to use to check out builds. Especially on Twitch with NGNG, Beef, Haven Kendrick and the like. These are the places people can see what builds are used most and the reason's for it.. Especially for new(er)players

Seeing someone's mech load out placement, places the person at a disadvantage. Because, Having your opponent know where to hit your mech for the easiest win, just isn't right.
It becomes less about your skills as an over all player an more about who's mech has the biggest exploitable weakness, from the placement of ammo, armor ect......

Taking armor, using an XL or light engine, active skill node's- These are the thing's, we change to make the mech's our's, for our playing style. Showing the opponent where we are weak or where our mech is most vulnerable, Would make us change how we build and our playing style.

#98 xkilroyx

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 08:48 PM

I think just seeing the loadout is plenty enough. I know that you can eventually figure out builds and such by theory crafting and searching Google. Case in point as far as new players go it's not really that difficult for new players to type in mech builds for what their looking for.It just takes a little effort for those willing to learn. I don't think your opponent should see where your armor spread is allocated and ammo locations not to mention if you are deciding to run XL/LFE/STD engine or not because you might be running something off the wall and it takes out any element of surprise whatsoever. I'm not even fan of displaying where each weapon is located.Letting your opponent know where exactly to shoot doesn't make sense to me for random competition match up. Also skill tree should be kept totally private. However if their must be compromise I would go with Tarngatos suggestion although I'd rather have complete surprise in matches. I believe that's more a test of pilot skill just my opinion. Anyway good hunting mechwarriors!

#99 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:52 AM

View PostMovinTarget, on 26 April 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

How about this, in BT/books, weren't the loadouts generally known before hand? How often did the Wang get modded solely for the purpose of obfuscating his loadout???

I am asking b/c i didn't do S7 in anything but MW games so tell me.


In the novels Solaris mechs were modded

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Yen-Lo-Wang
Yen-Lo-Wang was originally an old regular Centurion that Justin Xiang Allard purchased in 3027 during his exile on Solaris VII and his Solaris Championship run with funds provided by Kym Sorenson.[2] He modified the 'Mech to carry an Autocannon/20 by dropping the LRM launcher

#100 Cyrilis

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:14 AM

Hi there,
Tarogatos compromise is nice, but I think that would make XL/LFE checks too easy.





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