154 replies to this topic

[Genesis23]

[Redacted]

as for the mech in question, i pass. never saw much use in the 40t class and the mech does not look that appealing in terms of hitbox-possibilities and hardpoints.

Edited by draiocht, 08 May 2018 - 10:01 AM.
Quote Clean-Up, reference

[BTGbullseye]

MrKvola, on 06 May 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

Except you don't have an actuator to rip it off with, and use it to do all the stuff you decribed... and if you had, there would be little value in getting a spare one

I guess you'll just have to rip off another one to be able to use the one you ripped off earlier...

[Arkhangel]

The Boneshaman, on 06 May 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

Another thing....
I CAN'T VULCAN MINDMELD WITH OTHER MECH WITHOUT JAND ACUATERS.

ALSO WHAT ISNR THEIR MORE STAR TREK VULCAN JOAKS ON THIS FORM.

I'm thinking of getting it for all the logical lols.

because it has more in common with the Roman God of Fire and Smithing?

99% of "Vulcan" references historically are about HIM, not Star Trek.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Arkhangel, on 07 May 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

because it has more in common with the Roman God of Fire and Smithing?

Equipped with misshapen legs and so ugly his own mother threw him away?

[Arkhangel]

IdToaster, on 07 May 2018 - 04:19 AM, said:

Equipped with misshapen legs and so ugly his own mother threw him away?

that'd be the one. though Vulcan tends to get associated less with that myth than his Greek Counterpart that he's based off of, which btw also has something in BattleTech named after him, this Hell's Horses Tank: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hephaestus

Vulcan in roman mythology tends to be more associated with burning things, hence the Vulcan's flamer loadouts.

Edited by Arkhangel, 07 May 2018 - 05:04 AM.

[Arkhangel]

Throe, on 03 May 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

It isn't about what they cover. It's about what is relevant to MWO. The limitations simply aren't relevant to MWO. MWO's developers had a great opportunity to make them relevant with Community Warfare, but it never happened. That being as it is, your objections are baseless.

Your arguement is as well. might want to consider that.

[Thomas G Wolf]

Make the premium time banked and I will start buying again active time sucks...................

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:43 PM.

[GenJack]

Looks like he needs a few burgers

[MrKvola]

Throe, on 07 May 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

My argument is what?

He meant baseless.

I'd say you did not really present one. You just presented an opinion and for whatever reason you are requesting that everybody should accept it. Counter-arguments were presented explaining the reasons for the current situation, but you just dismissed them on no basis. This is no way to have an intelligent discussion.

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 08 May 2018 - 10:46 AM.
unconstructive

[Arkhangel]

Throe, on 07 May 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

My argument is what?

Baseless. I used your own quote. might wanna read next time.

fact is, the Vulcan's getting added because PGI wanted to add it, and possibly because Jordan Weisman and HBS requested it get added so the art assets can be shared too.

and I think being asked by the guy who CREATED BATTLETECH to possibly add a mech to your game that would be easily shareable between all current and future games in the universe kinda beat out the opinion of [Redacted].

I guess to put it bluntly, there are people that are far more important than you in the eyes of the MWO community, PGI, and people who like BattleTech-based stuff in general. and you will never be more important. ever.

You can't beat someone at their own game like you're claiming to if you were never a player in the first place.

Edited by draiocht, 08 May 2018 - 10:51 AM.
insults

[MrKvola]

Reasons were brought up, you are just choosing to ignore them. Hence the departure from a rational conversation. Sorry, but it's your fault.

Perhaps the best reason is that the stock configs are defined by what we could consider a third party and they sort of negate arguments such as this one - because if we were to take up your idea, then there would be even more people that would disagree with the loadouts and whine about how they do not represent their idea of a good stock loadout. The lore loadouts establish an unbiased baseline and it is a good idea to use it.

Just take a look at the mess that is champion builds and consider that.

In my opinion your idea leads down a particularly nasty rabbit hole. And I'm not even going into how much work it would be to adjust base loadouts for hundreds of 'mechs already in game.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:45 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Throe, on 07 May 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

new stock builds:

No one in their right mind would upgrade to FF armor before upgrading to Endosteel internals. It just doesn't make sense.

Also, seeing as how at least some of these Variants have Standard Engines, and some have eXtra Light Engines, would it not make sense for at least one to have a Light Engine as well?

Actually there are very sound engineering reasons for having ferrous armour in place before endo steel internals.

Time and engineering capability.
To fit internals you basically have to dismantle the entire mech, or retool a production line, severely reducing the numbers of mechs available.

Armour replacement is 'simply' that.

You are making assumptions based on how easy it is to change a virtual mech in the mech lab with a few button clicks. In times of war, the impact of production is of vital importance, and it's far better to have, each one of your 'fleet' slightly upgraded taking a few days for each unit in a relatively simple process, than a process which would require intensive engineering capacity.


Now Fasa and the people that have added to this game, Afterwards. have from my fairly intensive knowledge of AFV production and upgrading, been pretty damn clueless. Sometimes though, they stumble onto what is best practice, by accident or lucky guess.

Yes P.G.I could take artistic licence with the variants they make, even the non canon ones, and they could put a light engine in the mix, but they chose to,

Stick to lorrish builds, with inflated hard points whenever possible

This also gives people the more expensive XL engine, which people can sell.


Yes this is a game, and engineering in a fictional game matters zilch, to those that don't give a damn except about optimised mechs.

There are just as many though that do give a damn, and are glad P.G.I do what they do.

[Arkhangel]

well said, Cathy.

for instance, engineering wise, you just drag and drop in MWO to swap an engine. in the lore, it takes at least a week to do that, and a full rebuild of an OmniMech, which can take months, or a ridiculous number of engineers, something you're not going to find on the Leopard our mechbays are on.

PGI sticks with lore builds also partially because, despite what people think, they try to be as true to canon for the mech as they can be within the confines of the game. for instance, most mechs with multiple ballistic or energy hardpoints added onto an area usually get them due to carrying a large ballistic or Energy weapon, and the rest of the mech not having many others, I.E. the Hunchbak 4G's triple ballistic shoulder due to its AC/20, and only having three other hardpoints, or the Shadowhawk 2H due to only having four others, in both cases carrying much smaller weapons than that main gun. it opens up options apart from being shoehorned into having to only use that specific weapon from the stock.

conversely, the Atlas K's single Ballistic for its Gauss is that way because of the sheer number of other weapon hardpoints an Atlas has, and many of them are almost as large as the Gauss itself both size and damage wise, so it remains a single hardpoint.

Edited by Arkhangel, 07 May 2018 - 05:25 PM.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Arkhangel, on 07 May 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

conversely, the Atlas K's single Ballistic for its Gauss is that way because of the sheer number of other weapon hardpoints an Atlas has, and many of them are almost as large as the Gauss itself both size and damage wise, so it remains a single hardpoint.

So the Atlas-D, which at stock loadout has one more weapon and a higher alpha strike potential (with better cooling efficiency), while running guns almost as big (or bigger) than the -K, gets a second ballistic hardpoint because...?

Also the pre-Clans era must have been quite a time when 6 weapons counted as a 'sheer number of hardpoints'. Well, aside from Hunchbacks running around with 8 or 9 guns I suppose.

[Arkhangel]

never said it's perfect, Id, but it's better than what Throe's opinion would cause.

[EvangelX]

Wow soo much salt! LOL whats going on!? Its like a daytime TV drama!

[MovinTarget]

EvangelX, on 08 May 2018 - 02:39 AM, said:

Wow soo much salt! LOL whats going on!? Its like a daytime TV drama!

Nah, not even that good... daytime soaps at least have eye candy....

[MovinTarget]

Throe,
If you can come up with new loadouts that no one EVER will disagree with, for all, what? 500+ variants in game. Again, builds that everyone can agree on, I would agree with you.

This is why PGI used lore as a baseline. It makes more sense *and* makes initial aqusition cheaper.

You bring up FF before Endo... what about assault where SPACE is the more valuable commodity? You would be fine with the most expensive mechs being made MORE expensive because someone decided the mech needed Endo/FF and an XL. You have to buy it then strip it back down?

At least if its stock you have an argument that its the stockload, not a build someone THOUGHT would be good...

The only other solution would be if you could opt to buy the mech stripped of all parts that are not fixed (including armor) and that would only benefit the veteran players as nooblets would need to know to equip all that stuff...

Edited by MovinTarget, 08 May 2018 - 04:57 AM.