68 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Ghogiel, on 02 May 2018 - 02:28 AM, said:

I only remember regular mrms in MW4 mercs, don't remember clan versions. Was that some mektek nonsense?

Clan SMRMs were added with the Clan Mech Pack expansion, which was available since the initial Vengeance version of MW4.

Edited by FupDup, 02 May 2018 - 09:22 AM.

[Grus]

Just wait till we get longtoms on our Atlases...

[Stridercal]

Grus, on 02 May 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Just wait till we get longtoms on our Atlases...

Without crit-splitting, it's literally never going to happen.

And even then, how on earth do you plan on balancing an artillery weapon with MWO?

You know, there was always a few things i hated about the MW4 series. And this thread just helped me remember!

[Brain Cancer]

Arty cannons would be pretty darn easy to balance.

It's a 20 point at ground zero AOE at worst. A single airstrike or barrage hit is 35. Given the massive weight and low ammo, even an Arrow IV isn't much of a problem.

[Khobai]

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Without crit-splitting, it's literally never going to happen.

it would be pretty easy to add longtoms and arrowIV as a hardwired systems

only certain mechs would be able to use them. but you wouldnt want every mech being able to use them anyway.

they should just add arrow IV as a hardwired system on the catapult C3 (just have to add a new variant) and the naga (release the naga as a new omnimech)

they would be the only two mechs that could use ArrowIV but two mechs that can use it is all we need.

Edited by Khobai, 02 May 2018 - 12:13 PM.

[Requiemking]

Stridercal, on 02 May 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

Without crit-splitting, it's literally never going to happen.

And even then, how on earth do you plan on balancing an artillery weapon with MWO?

You know, there was always a few things i hated about the MW4 series. And this thread just helped me remember!

Well, first off, A full-on Long Tom cannot be put on a mech, period. Second of all, a Long Tom cannon(think of Artillery Cannons as snub-nosed version of the full-sized artillery pieces) deals 20 damage on a direct hit with an indirect arc and splashes 10 damage in the immediate hex. The only issue I could see is how to aim the bloody thing and, of course, how to implement crit-splitting. Even then, there are no mechs that carry a Long Tom cannon by default. The only thing that does is the Transit aerospace fighter, and even then it's only one futuretech variant that does.

Edited by Requiemking, 02 May 2018 - 12:10 PM.

[Khobai]

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The only issue I could see is how to aim the bloody thing

well ARROWIV would be easier to implement because it can just use the current missile lockon system.

longtom would require the ability to independently pitch the barrel up and down in order to aim it. which is probably beyond PGIs capabilities.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 May 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

it would be pretty easy to add longtoms and arrowIV as a hardwired systems

only certain mechs would be able to use them. but you wouldnt want every mech being able to use them anyway.

they should just add arrow IV as a hardwired system on the catapult C3 (new variant) and naga (release the naga as a new mech)

Hardwired items still have to conform to the existing construction rules. The only difference is that you can't remove them, but otherwise their coding is exactly the same as a modular item (there is no separate coding for hardwired versions).

[Requiemking]

Khobai, on 02 May 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

well ARROWIV would be easier to implement because it can just use the current missile lockon system.

longtom would require the ability to independently pitch the barrel up and down in order to aim it. which is probably beyond PGIs capabilities.

I'm more referring to something like WOT's "Eye of God" style aiming for ballistic artillery.

[Khobai]

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Hardwired items still have to conform to the existing construction rules. The only difference is that you can't remove them, but otherwise their coding is exactly the same as a modular item (there is no separate coding for hardwired versions).

hardwired endosteel can be split between two locations

I see no reason why hardwired arrowIV couldnt do the same

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 May 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

well ARROWIV would be easier to implement because it can just use the current missile lockon system.

longtom would require the ability to independently pitch the barrel up and down in order to aim it. which is probably beyond PGIs capabilities.

To aim the Long Tom you just pitch your whole torso up just like it was in MW4. The only issue is of course that most mechs in MWO have very restricted torso pitch angles...

[Khobai]

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To aim the Long Tom you just pitch your whole torso up just like it was in MW4. The only issue is of course that most mechs in MWO have very restricted torso pitch angles...

which is why that idea doesnt work, mechs cant pitch up enough.

also if the longtom uses the same reticle as other weapons, how do you fire your other weapons and the longtom at the same time? you cant so thats major fail. not being able to fire your longtom and defend yourself with your other weapons at the same time would make longtom utterly useless.

longtom would have to have independent pitch controls to raise or lower the barrel with its its own seperate pitch reticle. its the only way to make it work. because then you could fire the longtom and still be able to aim your other weapons.

but ARROWIV is still the easier way to get mech-based artillery into the game ASAP. They should just add the catapult C3, the naga, and give them hardwired arrowIV systems.

Edited by Khobai, 02 May 2018 - 12:24 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 May 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

hardwired endosteel can be split between two locations

I see no reason why hardwired arrowIV couldnt do the same

Endo-Steel is able to split between multiple locations with or without hardwiring. The only difference is whether the slots move or not.

Weapons being split is entirely different because of figuring out where the base of the weapon is stored (i.e. if you split a weapon between arm and torso which limb do you shoot out of?) and critical hits (i.e. critting the split part of a weapon would have to count as critting the main body of the weapon).

Khobai, on 02 May 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

which is why that idea doesnt work, mechs cant pitch up enough.

also if the longtom uses the same reticle as other weapons, how do you fire your other weapons and the longtom at the same time? you cant so thats major fail. not being able to fire your longtom and defend yourself with your other weapons at the same time would make longtom utterly useless.

longtom would have to have independent pitch controls to raise or lower the barrel with its its own seperate pitch reticle. its the only way to make it work.

What kind of weapon would you be firing at the same time as a Long Tom anyways? At mind to long range you're going to have a massive projectile speed desync and up-close you'll hurt yourself with the splash damage.

[Requiemking]

FupDup, on 02 May 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

Endo-Steel is able to split between multiple locations with or without hardwiring. The only difference is whether the slots move or not.

Weapons being split is entirely different because of figuring out where the base of the weapon is stored (i.e. if you split a weapon between arm and torso which limb do you shoot out of?) and critical hits (i.e. critting the split part of a weapon would have to count as critting the main body of the weapon).

Which is exactly how it works in TT. And again, there are very few mechs that mount Ballistic Artillery in the first place, so it's not really an issue.

[Khobai]

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Weapons being split is entirely different because of figuring out where the base of the weapon is stored (i.e. if you split a weapon between arm and torso which limb do you shoot out of?) and critical hits (i.e. critting the split part of a weapon would have to count as critting the main body of the weapon).

the base of the weapon would be stored in the more restrictive of the two locations. in the case of ARROWIV it would be the side torso.

thats how it works in battletech. if you split a weapon between arm and side torso it counts as a side torso weapon for determining firing arcs.

since youd be limiting arrowIV to only being used by the catapult C3 and Naga, PGI would only have to have the arrowIV weapon meshes on those two mechs. the arrowIV weapon meshes would be ridiculous to add for every mech in the game because of how huge they would be.

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What kind of weapon would you be firing at the same time as a Long Tom anyways? At mind to long range you're going to have a massive projectile speed desync and up-close you'll hurt yourself with the splash damage.

theres plenty of weapons you could fire at the same time as long tom

LRMs for example could complement longtom since both are indirect weapons.

or you could fire lasers at a closer target while shooting a farther target with the longtom.

theres literally countless examples of why you would need to fire other weapons alongside the longtom

Edited by Khobai, 02 May 2018 - 12:33 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 May 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

the base of the weapon would be stored in the more restrictive of the two locations. in the case of ARROWIV it would be the side torso

thats how it works in battletech. if you split a weapon between arm and side torso it counts as a side torso weapon for determining firing arcs.

I don't mean just firing arc, I also mean where the physical barrel or tubes for shooting are located. The place where the bullets come out of. That Catapult for example is going to have to shoot the missiles out of its arms even with slots being in the side torso.

As for firing arc, MWO can't make arm weapons use the torso crosshair unless you've got armlock activated.

Edited by FupDup, 02 May 2018 - 12:32 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

I'd even take an "artillery mode" where the unit swaps out of normal targeting entirely while setting up the AIV/artillery cannon shot.

Just use those arrows like we have for showing which way your feet go. All artillery fires from the torso location anyway, as split-crit weapons always use the worst firing arc of the lot.

[Khobai]

armlock would forcibly be activated if you have longtom or arrowIV.when you critsplit a weapon in battletech it basically fuses the arm and side torso together so the arm can no longer move.

it would functionally be the same as not having any lower arm actuators.

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Just use those arrows like we have for showing which way your feet go. All artillery fires from the torso location anyway, as split-crit weapons always use the worst firing arc of the lot.

exactly. it would fire out of the side torso.

Edited by Khobai, 02 May 2018 - 12:38 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 May 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

armlock would forcibly be activated if you have longtom.when you critsplit a weapon in battletech it basically fuses the arm and side torso together so the arm can no longer move.

In Battletech, you can still have your other arm move freely even with one of them locked down. In MWO both arms have to always use the same reticule, an all-or-nothing system.

[Khobai]

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In Battletech, you can still have your other arm move freely even with one of them locked down. In MWO both arms have to always use the same reticule, an all-or-nothing system.

unfortunately thats not how it works in MWO. the arms move in unison in MWO. so youd have to lock both arms.

and thats not a big deal honestly. if you use a mech with a hardwired longtom or arrowIV youd basically have no lower arm actuators for either arm. so what? thats not really an issue.

Edited by Khobai, 02 May 2018 - 12:40 PM.