45 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Honestly, the real hidden gem is the Amaris Civil War. The Reunification War is also pretty cool in terms of it's scope, as both are in the era when Warships were still regularly seen on the battlefield. Both have plenty of tech, and as the "prequel" to the Clans you'd actually see a lot of the original Bloodnames in action prior to the Exodus.

[Lykaon]

Viktor Drake, on 04 May 2018 - 05:56 AM, said:

You know the Stone Rhino is one of the coolest looking mechs in Battletech however it would suck horribly in MWO. It will be as wide as a Fafnir but won't have the armor quirks of the Fafnir because its Clan tech and most of its weapons are low mounted. Also because it is Clan tech, it will have the mobility profile of beached whale. It is a battlemech though so at least it will have that going for it.

If I recall the Stone rhino has 2 gauss rifles mounted on it's dorsal a small pulse mounted coaxial to the cockpit and 2 large pulse lasers in arms that hang at around waist level (about 2-3 meters under the cockpit)

So even if the arms are knuckledraggers we will likely see at least two ballistics mounts on the very tippitty top of the mech and an energy at cockpit level.

Edited by Lykaon, 04 May 2018 - 03:22 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Luminis, on 04 May 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Dark Age, for once. Or Jihad.

But Clans are way too popular to ignore, so I guess it's either 4th Succession War or straight to the Clan Invasion.

Zero effs for how popular. Clans broke the game since it's inception. HBS's deviation from Houses and staying in 3025 has made it BattleTech's best iteration in recent memory.

Edited by HammerMaster, 04 May 2018 - 05:03 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Its fine

[STEF_]

HammerMaster, on 04 May 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

Zero effs for how popular. Clans broke the game since it's inception. HBS's deviation from Houses and staying in 3025 has made it BattleTech's best iteration in recent memory.

Not agree.

If with the words "breaking the game" you mean "unbalance", then I can agree with you.
BUT, with clans Battletech rivive and renew itself and has become very very fun.
It's not balance the factor that makes a game enjoyable.

I remember a looooooot of scenarios I won thanks to victory points, although my IS mechs have been destroyed.

ANd yes, HBS very prolly will do a clan release, because clans are popular, and this means $$ for them

[Zergling]

For a single player game, Clan tech being the 'end game' gear tier to acquire via salvaging actually works really well.

[CK16]

Zergling, on 04 May 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

For a single player game, Clan tech being the 'end game' gear tier to acquire via salvaging actually works really well.

Personally I want a game from the Clan side, it's not so easy mode imo as people think specially if done right.

I could see an honor system playing a huge part to the game. If you play dishonorably you get nothing but the salvage you take off the field. You bid well to your opponents and follow Zellbringen you get more supplies from Clan command including more and better mechs ect. If you want to play easy mode then you might run low on supplies and either A. Pick up IS tech or B. Go challenge another Clan for possession of their resources or even other units for more, then it turns into "pick on someone your own size" and might result in challenging campaigns either way.

[Luminis]

HammerMaster, on 04 May 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

Zero effs for how popular. Clans broke the game since it's inception. HBS's deviation from Houses and staying in 3025 has made it BattleTech's best iteration in recent memory.

Please explain to me how balance matters in a single player focused game that's already unbalanced as hell.

Does it really matter whether it's an AS7-D-HT or a Dire Wolf variant that's the uncontested top of the food chain?

[Nightbird]

The only balance that matters in single player games is how hard the human player can step on the AI player.

[Brain Cancer]

Luminis, on 05 May 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

Please explain to me how balance matters in a single player focused game that's already unbalanced as hell.

Does it really matter whether it's an AS7-D-HT or a Dire Wolf variant that's the uncontested top of the food chain?

Yes, as the Dire Wolf at the top of the food chain is capable of murdering most of the game solo, if you carried it's stats over. Clantech isn't nerfed like it is in MWO (yes, it's been nerfed), then Clantech makes the game a turkey shoot with you being the shooter.

[Satan n stuff]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 04 May 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

Battletech Clan DLC? Hopefully not for a long, long time. For that matter, the Inner Sphere can go hang as well. I'd rather HBS stay in the Periphery for a while, since apart from MW3's expansion every other bloody PC game is focused on either the IS or Clams. Maybe bring in the Marian Hegemony next?

Sure because what we need is more random periphery states inexplicably fielding entire lances of Stalkers, King Crabs or Highlanders to protect a group of tanks that costs less in total than any one of those mechs.

Luminis, on 05 May 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

Please explain to me how balance matters in a single player focused game that's already unbalanced as hell.

Does it really matter whether it's an AS7-D-HT or a Dire Wolf variant that's the uncontested top of the food chain?

Implying that the AS7-D-HT is better than the HGN-732B is HERESY.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 06 May 2018 - 05:24 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Satan n stuff, on 06 May 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

Sure because what we need is more random periphery states inexplicably fielding entire lances of Stalkers, King Crabs or Highlanders to protect a group of tanks that costs less in total than any one of those mechs.

The setting isn't responsible for the developer's silly choices in force composition. Every other PC game has had the same problem with over-abundance of assaults, heavies... hell, 'Mechs in general. I would love to see more vehicles, and even infantry added. The focus should be, and should have been from the start, on combined-arms tactics. HBS' interpretation of the vehicles they've included is pretty faithful to the threat level they represent in lore and TT; it would hardly make the missions pushovers to have fewer 'Mechs and more vehicles. Hell, they could, instead of adding another lance of player-controlled 'Mechs in the future, allow the addition of some support vehicles up to a BV or tonnage limit. Sounds great to me.

All of which has nothing to do with the choice of setting. All assaults, all the time is an inappropriate force comp in pretty much every nook and cranny of BT lore except for certain Solaris 7 bouts. Multiple full lances of assaults in every mission would be silly in a Succession Wars setting, it would be silly in a Clan Invasion setting, or Operation Bulldog, or the Amaris Civil War, or the Jihad, or Wars of Reaving- it's just silly period, but that's what we keep getting in every single PC game. Blame it on the folks who can't stand to see a singleplayer game without hard vertical progression.

Edited by WrathOfDeadguy, 06 May 2018 - 06:58 AM.

[Luminis]

Brain Cancer, on 05 May 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

Yes, as the Dire Wolf at the top of the food chain is capable of murdering most of the game solo, if you carried it's stats over. Clantech isn't nerfed like it is in MWO (yes, it's been nerfed), then Clantech makes the game a turkey shoot with you being the shooter.

Clans being in the game also means Clan enemies, so I'd say that cancels out, anyway.

Satan n stuff, on 06 May 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

Implying that the AS7-D-HT is better than the HGN-732B is HERESY.

I love the HGN, but how's it better?

WrathOfDeadguy, on 06 May 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

All of which has nothing to do with the choice of setting. All assaults, all the time is an inappropriate force comp in pretty much every nook and cranny of BT lore except for certain Solaris 7 bouts. Multiple full lances of assaults in every mission would be silly in a Succession Wars setting, it would be silly in a Clan Invasion setting, or Operation Bulldog, or the Amaris Civil War, or the Jihad, or Wars of Reaving- it's just silly period, but that's what we keep getting in every single PC game. Blame it on the folks who can't stand to see a singleplayer game without hard vertical progression.

I do hope that we'll eventually get a successor to the game - it laid good foundations overall, in my opinion - and that that successor introduces combined arms and stuff. I don't think we'll ever see the cost / management factor limit what Mechs you can actually field, but making Assaults more susceptible to, dunno, IED and infantry or whatever would at least give players a reason to not field all Assaults, all the time.

Edited by Luminis, 06 May 2018 - 07:45 AM.

[Brody319]

I look forward to the clans as long as it is handled well.

If they keep the same mission set up it will be too brutal since you'd need to run heavy and assault mechs just to keep up with a the 10 clan medium mechs they'd drop against you. Lord help you if the game decides to randomly drop a direwolf against you before you have clan mechs of your own. Though allowing mixtech off the bat might help compensate for the power difference.

I also would like the clans to be as close as possible to their original setup to make the player really feel why the clans were able to carve so much of the IS out. If they are like "They've taken over 5% of IS space in a week!" and then their mechs are as easy to kill as IS mechs it'd feel dumb.

[Variant1]

Stridercal, on 04 May 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

The MechAssault games don't count, as the only thing they shared with Battletech was the idea that giant robots are kinda sorta cool.

Seriously. Floating power ups? Lava guns?!? Piss off!

mechassault is canon mechwarrior son deal with it . It took place during the jihad so we have that already covered. haters gona hate

[Angel of Annihilation]

The Lighthouse, on 04 May 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

Reverse progression is not really popular or workable as a 'game' though. General population wants 'progression', not losing what they have.

You happen to be right. While reverse progression would be interesting as hell, I am not sure it would be fun, especially since most gamers fall into the, "impatient, give me more, now" category rather than wanting a true challenge.

Also in my Battletech campaign right now I recently got a mech with SDLF tech and it is really powerful The problem I have with it is that damn thing is too precious to really risk in battle because I can't replace the technology if it gets damaged in battle. Last night ended up losing a DHS to a crit and about had a conniption because I don't have any replacement DHS. It was almost as bad as losing an experience pilot, actually it might have been worse because I can eventually retrain a new pilot and can actually hire some pretty damned skill pilots fresh from the hiring hall. My point is that I am about this close to leavng my fancy SDLF mech in the bay and running missions with less precious mechs because I can't replace the tech so imagine how fun (or not) an entire game would be if you were in a situation where if your mechs got damaged, you always ended up in an inferior state.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 06 May 2018 - 10:44 AM.

[Stridercal]

Variant1, on 06 May 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

mechassault is canon mechwarrior son deal with it . It took place during the jihad so we have that already covered. haters gona hate

So very wrong, thankfully: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/MechAssault

Excerpt:
"Canonicity[edit]

Computer games are explicitly excluded from the list of products that contribute straight Canon to the BattleTech universe while at the same time it was stated that the IP owners are "not in total denial about these sources either"; it has also been stated that fluff from certain official, licensed products (namely certain computer games including those produced by Microsoft) can be assumed to be part of the shared universe as long as it is not directly contradicted, and makes sense. On this premise, MechAssault is considered to be an apocryphal product."

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I disagree about vertical progression. I think it's more a case of so few games ever having done anything else well- just handing the player increasingly more powerful equipment is easier, and it's the expected norm. I'm struggling to think of even one example off the top of my head of a game that hasn't gone down that road to one degree or another. However, a strong core gameplay loop, tight level design, and a well-written story would go miles towards making a reverse progression concept viable. I think the key would be a sense of investment with the early-game equipment... which really shouldn't be all that difficult in a setting like Battletech, where 'Mechs are passed down from generation to generation, and could easily be written up as characters unto themselves.

Which is another crack in HBS' otherwise-strong game... you get a 'Mech with a backstory to start off with, but it's eventually rendered nonviable by the influx of heavier and heavier opponents. It would have been way, way cooler if you had the option to stick it out in your rickety old BJ-1 without it becoming a death sentence later on. It's hard to become invested with and attached to a machine that the game treats as disposable.

But... what if, instead, the 'Mech were to be an integral part of your character? It would be, for most Mechwarriors. Becoming Disposessed by losing one's 'Mech was the single greatest shame a Mechwarrior could face. Most would rather die in the cockpit than eject and live out the rest of their days without their machine. So, build off of that. You start with Your 'Mech. It may be a more-or-less stock varaint, but it is Yours. You know that it is the only 'Mech you're ever likely to own, and that you're fantastically lucky to even have it in the first place, because your great-great-so-and-so nearly bought it after taking an AC20 to the CT around a century ago, and it took decades to put the beast back together because of the heavy engine damage- but here it is, and it is Yours.

You would do anything to keep Your 'Mech operational. You'll be damned before you'll see Your 'Mech consigned to a salvage yard because it's too beat up to repair anymore. If it falls, it'll be in battle, with you or one of your descendants proudly sitting at the controls. Every hit you take makes your future battles more difficult, and you might be forced to take desperate measures if you suffer heavy damage, using inferior salvage to replace lost equipment... but with grit, determination, and skill, you and Your 'Mech will leave as proud a legacy as you've inherited.

Am I really the only person who wants to play that game? Really, really badly?

Edited by WrathOfDeadguy, 06 May 2018 - 12:16 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 06 May 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

Which is another crack in HBS' otherwise-strong game... you get a 'Mech with a backstory to start off with, but it's eventually rendered nonviable by the influx of heavier and heavier opponents. It would have been way, way cooler if you had the option to stick it out in your rickety old BJ-1 without it becoming a death sentence later on. It's hard to become invested with and attached to a machine that the game treats as disposable.

See I feel this part could be solved by increasing the size and scale of the battles and them writing the scenario to encourage and/or require diversity and your unit selection. Right now 4 mechs just isn't enough to really allow any tactical flexibility. If you decide to take say a Jenner for recon purposes, then your just hosed when 2 full lances of enemy show up in on the Contract and you need as much armor and firepower as you can muster. However if the maps were huge and you had multiple objectives such as engage and distract the main enemy force while a lance has to flank behind some hills and go take out the enemy supply dump in the enemy rear, then now you might want to take 2 lances of Heavy/Assault lances to try to tie up the enemy company of mechs pushing on toward your capital while you send a lance of Locusts to quickly Assault the supply dump.

On the other hand, yeah I get you. What your taking about it a real, true RPG with actual long reaching story and decisions that actually matter and sure yeah I would like that game. I am just not sure that HBS version of Battletech is the best place for it.

[Variant1]

Stridercal, on 06 May 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

So very wrong, thankfully: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/MechAssault

Excerpt:
"Canonicity[edit]

Computer games are explicitly excluded from the list of products that contribute straight Canon to the BattleTech universe while at the same time it was stated that the IP owners are "not in total denial about these sources either"; it has also been stated that fluff from certain official, licensed products (namely certain computer games including those produced by Microsoft) can be assumed to be part of the shared universe as long as it is not directly contradicted, and makes sense. On this premise, MechAssault is considered to be an apocryphal product."

well thats lame, i was really hopin for that ragnarok
does that mean quads/tripods arent canon either?