47 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

So I have been looking at the screens for the Blood Asp and the more I look at them, the more I am leaning toward the DOA prediction side of things

There are a couple reasons why I think it is leaning that way.

• The shoulder mounts. Realistically speaking they are large enough that they are going to be extremely easy to target and due to their length and size, they are going to be able to be targeted from nearly a 360 degree angle. Even if they twist, your probably still going to be able to target either ST, even the one twisted away from you.
  
• Frontal profile. So not only due you have the shoulder boxes but the mech is extremely wide and the CT hit box is very easy to extinguish. In fact the profile of the Blood Asp strongly reminds me of the Nova Cat which I found is very easily cored out.
  
• Due to the fact the Blood Asp is Clan, can mount significant firepower and has high mounts, PGI isn't likely to be generous with any of the Blood Asp's stats. I expect very little quirks, especially if you want to mix and max omnipods. I am also expecting a very limited range of motion and speed in terms of torso twist or pitch as well as very limited acceleration, deceleration and turn rates. Basically PGI isn't likely to give it much to compensate it for having bad hit boxes.

What do you all think?

[STEF_]

Viktor Drake, on 09 May 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

What do you all think?

I think that, despite the Asp is one of my fav, I'm going to wait the release.
Reading its quirks, and then, in the field, if its torsi are really easy to hit or not.
Then I'll decide to open my wallet or not.

[Eisenhorne]

Everything the Blood Asp does, the MKII already does better (because it's not an omni, and can trade down the engine, and use ferro + endo). So I don't see it bringing much to the party.

[Sable]

Yet it is an assault mech that is ECM capable. Look at the Hellbringer, it's pretty fragile compared to other heavies yet it's considered one of the best clan mechs. And it's because it has ECM, when you don't pop up on people's huds then you get overlooked half the time. And by the time you notice you've already taken double gauss to the face.

[Metus regem]

More or less what I thought, the sky hook level shoulder mounts (above cockpit) are going to make it easy pickings when trying to hill hump, thanks to the lower cockpit mount....

[STEF_]

Metus regem, on 09 May 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

More or less what I thought, the sky hook level shoulder mounts (above cockpit) are going to make it easy pickings when trying to hill hump, thanks to the lower cockpit mount....

remember the even the linebacker was called DOA, but the right set of quirks on release made it a very fine mech.

[Battlemaster56]

I going with functional not extremely breaking or over performing but it will have to play differently from the MKII, but it won't be DOA.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Viktor Drake, on 09 May 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

So I have been looking at the screens for the Blood Asp and the more I look at them, the more I am leaning toward the DOA prediction side of things

Don't need screenshots to know that shoulder mounts + 5 hp gauss is gonna be DOA. Though with ECM it will have a chance for occasional good game when no one bothers to shoot you.

[Stridercal]

I vote DOA, for the same reasons. The only reason the Fafnir isn't a walking joke with its gauss side-torsos is because the CT is a bigger joke yet.

Like i said in another thread, i can't wait to shoot those gauss rifles... from another mech's cockpit.

[AzureRathalos]

The shoulder mounts may drastically increase your ST hitboxes, but they have a placement that can be considered OP or even broken in the eyes of some.

The Blood Asp can be positioned behind a wall or a hill in such a way where only the shoulder mounts (and the very large guns in them) can be seen. You can shoot over a piece of cover before you can see over said piece of cover. Hitboxes of the rest of the mech won't matter because it's all in cover.

Imagine cresting the top of HPG Manifold to see 3-4 pairs of Blood Asp cannons facing you and the blinking lights of 3rd person view drones. They can shoot you, and you barely have a target to shoot back at. What are you going to do?

[Metus regem]

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 May 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

remember the even the linebacker was called DOA, but the right set of quirks on release made it a very fine mech.

Hoping for good quirks to make a mech good is a bad sign for the mech... remember the Thanatos and Uziel at release?

But that doesn't change the fact that high mounts with low cockpit mount is a bad set up, just look at the Archer...

Now I never called the Linebacker DoA, I said it would require the right kind of pilot to shine, just like the Dragon does.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

As long as it has adequate mobility I see it being decent. Basically assault Hellbringer.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Sable, on 09 May 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

Yet it is an assault mech that is ECM capable. Look at the Hellbringer, it's pretty fragile compared to other heavies yet it's considered one of the best clan mechs. And it's because it has ECM, when you don't pop up on people's huds then you get overlooked half the time. And by the time you notice you've already taken double gauss to the face.

The Hellbringer isn't all that fragile, in fact I would say it has about a 7 out of 10 level of tankiness with above average hit boxes and the ability to torso twist shield fairly effectively. It is also relatively small, fast and agile being a 65 ton mech

Also having been playing the Fafnir quite a bit which is also an ECM Assault, I really debate the value of ECM on such a large and heavy mech. I am not saying it doesn't offer some advantage especially in the early phases of a match as your approaching the enemy and vulnerable to long range LRM fire, but a mech this size doesn't really go unnoticed for long. Also as soon as the engagement get to within 250m which is very common, you lose your ECM advantage. Smaller mechs, even the Hellbringer, can actually kind of float around on the fringes and get lost in the action. They are also fast and agile enough to relocate back into their ECM envelop if necessary (Hellbringer tweaked is near 90 kph) where as a big Assault won't have that option. I guess my point is, ECM on super large 90 ton Assault mech isn't near as much of an advantage as one might think.

In any case I pre-ordered and I am not cancelling by any means but I am reducing my expectations quite a bit. You really don't know how a mech is going to perform until it releases and I am hoping I am pleasantly surprised and it turns out to be a really solid mech that falls just shy of being labled with an OP tag but I am just seeing so many potential flaws that I am leaning toward the pessimistic side in my predictions. DOA is probably not an appropriate label because I haven't seen very many mechs that were truly DOA and unplayable but it is looking more like a 5 on a 10 scale and unfortunately unless a mech makes it to at least 7 on a 10 scale, there is just no reason to play it over all the mechs that do make it up to 7 out of 10.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Viktor Drake, on 09 May 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

Also having been playing the Fafnir quite a bit which is also an ECM Assault, I really debate the value of ECM on such a large and heavy mech. I am not saying it doesn't offer some advantage especially in the early phases of a match as your approaching the enemy and vulnerable to long range LRM fire, but a mech this size doesn't really go unnoticed for long. Also as soon as the engagement get to within 250m which is very common, you lose your ECM advantage. Smaller mechs, even the Hellbringer, can actually kind of float around on the fringes and get lost in the action. They are also fast and agile enough to relocate back into their ECM envelop if necessary (Hellbringer tweaked is near 90 kph) where as a big Assault won't have that option. I guess my point is, ECM on super large 90 ton Assault mech isn't near as much of an advantage as one might think.

People are currently capable of staying out of the 250m range and continuing to kite in things like the Mad Cat MK2, which is more similar to the Blood Asp than the Fafnir. There's really no reason you'd be any closer than 400m to the enemy in the Blood Asp, you gain no advantages and open yourself up to the advantages of the enemy, assuming you're running meta ERMLs/HLLs/Gauss build.

[Seranov]

I really dig the ingame model. I'll pick one or two up when it comes out for CBills.

[Angel of Annihilation]

AzureRathalos, on 09 May 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

The shoulder mounts may drastically increase your ST hitboxes, but they have a placement that can be considered OP or even broken in the eyes of some.

The Blood Asp can be positioned behind a wall or a hill in such a way where only the shoulder mounts (and the very large guns in them) can be seen. You can shoot over a piece of cover before you can see over said piece of cover. Hitboxes of the rest of the mech won't matter because it's all in cover.

Imagine cresting the top of HPG Manifold to see 3-4 pairs of Blood Asp cannons facing you and the blinking lights of 3rd person view drones. They can shoot you, and you barely have a target to shoot back at. What are you going to do?

Do you know how many mechs I have killed that were only showing the tip top of their mech?

Anyway, sure the placement is an advantage. Also the fact that with tweak your going to be able to hit around 69 kph is an advantage. ECM is also going to give it an advantage to some degree as well. I am just not sure it is going to be enough.

Hell let me just say it. I just have this gut feeling that PGI is going look at those advantages and pull the rug out from underneath the Blood Asp because of it. I am expecting very narrow twist and pitch angles combined with sluggish traverse. I am also expecting acceleration, deceleration and turn to be set at just a hair above that of the Direwolf making for a very sluggish feeling Assault and that because of this, those hit box flaws are going to be magnified quite a bit. It really isn't going to be DOA but I do think it is going to be disappointing, kind of like the Nova Cat if I have to be honest.

Hopefully I am wrong.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 09 May 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

People are currently capable of staying out of the 250m range and continuing to kite in things like the Mad Cat MK2, which is more similar to the Blood Asp than the Fafnir. There's really no reason you'd be any closer than 400m to the enemy in the Blood Asp, you gain no advantages and open yourself up to the advantages of the enemy, assuming you're running meta ERMLs/HLLs/Gauss build.

However your an assault mech so if your not up close enough to be at least sharing armor with your team, then your just dragging your team down. I guess it comes down to personal play style but I tend to push into mid-range support even when using an LRM based build at least whenever I am running a heavy or assault because I know that at least some of the enemy is going to ignore my team to try to rid themselves of the annoying LRM boat and any damage I am taking is damage our brawlers aren't taking. Honestly, I am going to look at any Blood Asp sitting back at 400-500m sniping with gauss rifles as dragging the team down but again, that is just me.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Viktor Drake, on 09 May 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

However your an assault mech so if your not up close enough to be at least sharing armor with your team, then your just dragging your team down. I guess it comes down to personal play style but I tend to push into mid-range support even when using an LRM based build at least whenever I am running a heavy or assault because I know that at least some of the enemy is going to ignore my team to try to rid themselves of the annoying LRM boat and any damage I am taking is damage our brawlers aren't taking. Honestly, I am going to look at any Blood Asp sitting back at 400-500m sniping with gauss rifles as dragging the team down but again, that is just me.

Your team is dragging itself down by not being 400m from the enemy, to be fair. Quickplay is no place for brawlers, so they've failed in the mechlab already. Besides that, sharing armor is a total meme. You save your team from *much much much* more damage by just killing enemies, damaging them, and suppressing them than you do by letting them shoot you up. Besides that rocks have infinite armor and your team can share armor with them by using cover like a decent player.

The *only* time sharing armor is really relevant is in groups where everyone has decided beforehand to be brawlers, in this case the team has decided that they will make a push into the enemy and they need everyone to push at once to improve the effectiveness of this tactic.

The front line is the last place an assault should be, its an absolute waste and drags the team down when an assault is the first one up front getting shot, thus removing a large chunk of the team's firepower as it is impotent against the focused fire of the enemy team. Even brawler assaults such as Atlases don't lead pushes, they sneak up to enemies in cover and look to isolate targets and out brawl them, quickly moving onto the next. This is one reason why pretty much all comp level assaults have ranges over 400m and stick to that range, providing overwatch and deleting people who attempt to take shots on the mechs closer to the front.

[Nightbird]

I hope not... I have the collectors pack. Will be watching the countdown very closely on that (S) variant which doesn't have ECM.

[PAYWALL]

It can bring 5 ballistics + ECM. Good enough even without quirks.