572 replies to this topic

[Trenchbird]

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

haha i agree mate.
to be fair i just jumped on the bandwagon that Mizia started lul

anyway. back to the point.
is clan laser vomit strong. YES. but thats really all that clans have right now.
IS on the other hand have much more variety of builds that are equally strong.

this current nerf is NOT the solution to balance!

Okay, I'm going to start this off with a compliment. You made one hell of an improvement since Season 8.

Now I'm going to start with a disagreement. And keep in mind, as I've already mentioned earlier in this thread-around 40 of my mechs-out of 95-are Clantech, and again, of those, only 9 boat any considerable amount of lasers, and further, of those 9, only 3 are actually affected by this nerf.

Laser vomit is FAR from the only possible option the Clans have. Those who think that are typically to obtuse to try anything else. The majority of my Clan mechs are SRM and/or Autocannon brawlers. And by far, they are on average, better or equal to my IS brawlers, which is of a similar number of laserboats (Which is to say, little to none).

Case in point, the Marauder IIC Scorch and Orion IIC-A are both capable of mounting beatstick builds (AC20s and loads of SRMs), and typically capable of outright one-shotting medium machines-yes, even some IS ones-at close range. Likewise, Clan LRM boats are typically higher regarded than Inner Sphere ones, and ATM boats are considered rather viable as well. I will give you the "More IS options are viable" line, but to say that Laservom is the only Clan option is pretty damn stupid.

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

lets not even go into education.

Eh.

Edited by Catten Hart, 12 May 2018 - 10:46 AM.

[ENOVA]

o/o/o/[PGI, NO!]o/o/o/
o/|o o o o o /o/ /o/
/o/ /o/[Nerf wisely!]o/
o o o |o| |o| o o /o/ /o
o/[Small steps they say...]o/
/o /o o /o |o| /o/

Edited by ENOVA, 12 May 2018 - 10:49 AM.

[Trenchbird]

ENOVA, on 12 May 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

[color=#000000]\o/\o/\o/[PGI, NO!]\o/\o/\o/[/color]
[color=#000000]\o/|o\ o o o \o\ /o/ [/color][color=#000000]/o/[/color]
[color=#000000]/o/ /o/[Nerf wisely!]\o/[/color]
[color=#000000]o o o |o| |o| o o /o/ /o\[/color]
[color=#000000]o/[Small steps they say...]\o[/color]
[color=#000000]/o\ /o\ \o\ /o\ |o| /o/ [/color]

Your post is messed up. Should probably fix that.

Edited by Catten Hart, 12 May 2018 - 10:47 AM.

[Dungeon 206]

Catten Hart, on 12 May 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Okay, I'm going to start this off with a compliment. You made one hell of an improvement since Season 8.

Now I'm going to start with a disagreement. And keep in mind, as I've already mentioned earlier in this thread-around 40 of my mechs-out of 95-are Clantech, and again, of those, only 9 boat any considerable amount of lasers, and further, of those 9, only 3 are actually affected by this nerf.

Laser vomit is FAR from the only possible option the Clans have. Those who think that are typically to obtuse to try anything else. The majority of my Clan mechs are SRM and/or Autocannon brawlers. And by far, they are on average, better or equal to my IS brawlers, which is of a similar number of laserboats (Which is to say, little to none).

Case in point, the Marauder IIC Scorch and Orion IIC-A are both capable of mounting beatstick builds (AC20s and loads of SRMs), and typically capable of outright one-shotting medium machines-yes, even some IS ones-at close range. Likewise, Clan LRM boats are typically higher regarded than Inner Sphere ones, and ATM boats are considered rather viable as well. I will give you the "More IS options are viable" line, but to say that Laservom is the only Clan option is pretty damn stupid.

i improved by watching a number of top player streams, and observing how they play.

having watched them for a long time. one thing has become clear.
ask any of the top players. i have a number of times.
SRM and LB20 no longer is what it used to be. (it is lbx20 rather than ac20 btw.)
yes you're right, the best brawling build is 4 SRM6A 2 LBX20 Scorch.
but go ask EMPs PrtNspz, he'll tell you straight out its a shadow of what it used to be with the srm nerfs.

YES FINE i'll give you LRMs and ATMs.
but really. you want this to be Clans most reliable loadout? really? long range missiles?
cause thats gonna be all that's left if this nerf goes through.
so in FP, wave after wave of LRM and ATMs? is that what is really good for the game?
lets face it. people will play whats most reliable. do you really want clan lrm/atm to be the primary playstyle for this game?

theres a reason why a large portion of all the posts in this thread has been "you're killing the clans period!"
its because the most reliable playstyle for clans has been laservomit. (bar ATMs and LRMs which most pro players hate anyway)
clan brawlers arent nearly as reliable as what they used to be.
and clan big dakka is still good, just that the mechs that run them arent!
the only "tier 1" big dakka clan mech is the MCII-B
(refer to denairwalkers list here: https://docs.google....Xh_gI/htmlview#)
kodiak nerfed to the ground. DWF nerfed to the ground. night gyr nerfed to the ground.
besides the one variant of the one MCII mech,
even clan big dakka isnt that reliable anymore.

so besides clan laservomit (im gonna ignore lrm/atm for obvious reasons),
clans really dont have anything else that is nearly as reliable

Edited by Dungeon 206, 12 May 2018 - 11:02 AM.

[Trenchbird]

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

(it is lbx20 rather than ac20 btw.)

I know full well that it's LB20X, I just wasn't caring for specifics.

As for brawling-that's never really been super reliable for either faction aside from a handful of variants. IS benefits from having more mechs that specialize in it, of course, but that problem stems more from a lack of Clan machine variety than actual weapon performance.

Edited by Catten Hart, 12 May 2018 - 11:03 AM.

[Grus]

Garran Tana, on 12 May 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

Well ****, PGI got bullied into submission.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Catten Hart, on 12 May 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

Just saying, your adjusted (Over 22 seasons) score is literally 4.4 points below his. The fact that this even became a pissing contest is pretty stupid, but then, most stat-based ones tend to be.

Oh I know, we're equally bad, I'm aware

[Dungeon 206]

Catten Hart, on 12 May 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I know full well that it's LB20X, I just wasn't caring for specifics.

As for brawling-that's never really been super reliable for either faction aside from a handful of variants. IS benefits from having more mechs that specialize in it, of course, but that problem stems more from a lack of Clan machine variety than actual weapon performance.

exactly the point mate.
you take away the clan laser vomit playstyle,
and what do clans have left?
just a bunch of mediocre mechs running mediocre loadouts.

it'll really be lurmageddon then.

[Trenchbird]

Jay Leon Hart, on 12 May 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Oh I know, we're equally bad, I'm aware

Don't feel bad. Only thing I have on either of you is a .3 higher K/D over 22 seasons.

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 11:04 AM, said:

exactly the point mate.
you take away the clan laser vomit playstyle,
and what do clans have left?
just a bunch of mediocre mechs running mediocre loadouts.

No, you have a handful of Clan mechs that are super useful in certain roles and several laserboats that aren't even slightly affected by this nerf. IS has the same thing going on minus the fresh nerfs, just more individual mech variety.

Edited by Catten Hart, 12 May 2018 - 11:07 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

mate. you lost me when you said "people who want clan laser vomit want easy mode"
or when you said "rarely see HGR in QP".
LUL.

both those statements are just false.

Got a quote of my saying "people who want clan laser vomit want easy mode" in this thread? No? Then please, don;t lie to try and make your point.

I do rarely see HGauss in QP. That is a fact. Whether or not you see (or play) HGAuss in literally every QP match doesn't matter to what I do or don't see.

[Hellfire666]

Paul Inouye, on 11 May 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

ChriiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(fixing now)

Honestly, doesn't anyone PROOF READ things? I mean, try to act like you care about the information you are posting....

[Dungeon 206]

Catten Hart, on 12 May 2018 - 11:04 AM, said:

No, you have a handful of Clan mechs that are super useful in certain roles and several laserboats that aren't even slightly affected by this nerf. IS has the same thing going on minus the fresh nerfs, just more individual mech variety.

not true. IS definately has a much wide breadth of load outs as well.
just scroll back to the post differentiating IS ppcs vs clan ppcs.
lets put it this way.
if IS want to play range peeking, they can. mechs like 5 LL Battlemaster do it well
(sure sure sure sure maybe not at the same extreme ranges, but still long range enough)
if IS want to play brawling, they can. easy. srm + lbx. lbx + snubs. mpls. MRMs. blah blah. all very reliable.
if IS want to push a corner and assault, easy. Anni. Atlas. Fafner. (yes yes yes fafner not as good but still pretty good)

on the other hand.
clan range peeking. yes. laservomit. (for a few more days at least) + the MCII Hero gauss vomit.
clan brawling. scorch. meh. no longer as reliable as used to be. SRM6A TBR? LUL.
clan push corner assault. YOU GOT TO BE JOKING.
ive tried this. pros have tried this. there isnt a clan 100 tonner that's capable of pushing a corner and surviving with all portions intact.

maybe you really dont see HGR often. perhaps its diff tiers. whatever not picking a fight there.
but HGR is common in tier 1. DHGR esp.
pushing a corner in a clan 100 tonner against any DHGR IS mech is instadeath.

so really. take away laser vomit and all clanners gonna do now is sit back and rain missiles.
nothing else to do really... cause its all been tried.

[Dungeon 206]

Jay Leon Hart, on 12 May 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

Got a quote of my saying "people who want clan laser vomit want easy mode" in this thread? No? Then please, don;t lie to try and make your point.

for the sake of being fair i actually scrolled back a number of pages.
and i owe you an apology. this quote was made, but not by you. my mistake.

[Trenchbird]

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

not true. IS definately has a much wide breadth of load outs as well.
just scroll back to the post differentiating IS ppcs vs clan ppcs.
lets put it this way.
if IS want to play range peeking, they can. mechs like 5 LL Battlemaster do it well
(sure sure sure sure maybe not at the same extreme ranges, but still long range enough)
if IS want to play brawling, they can. easy. srm + lbx. lbx + snubs. mpls. MRMs. blah blah. all very reliable.
if IS want to push a corner and assault, easy. Anni. Atlas. Fafner. (yes yes yes fafner not as good but still pretty good)

I literally just said that the IS has more options due to sheer number of machines, and said that Clans are similar in that regard when it comes to mech choice.

Mind you, I never said the Clans were infallible. They just have less mech choices and can't do all of the same roles due to lack of structure and armor quirks. But then, you need some give-and-take considering how weight-and-crit efficient Clanner stuff is.

Agreed on Clan 100 tonners-those freaking suck, but then, so do most IS variants of 100 tonners. Annies that don't mount ballistics are universally considered stupid, Atlai are terrible with the exception of maybe 3 variants, the Fafnir's got a massive CT and can prove remarkably squishy, and the King Crab's... The King Crab that nobody talks about.

Edited by Catten Hart, 12 May 2018 - 11:29 AM.

[Jep Jorgensson]

More and more, I am thinking that this video might be actually real.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 12 May 2018 - 11:26 AM.

[Dungeon 206]

Catten Hart, on 12 May 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

I literally just said that the IS has more options due to sheer number of machines, and said that Clans are similar in that regard when it comes to mech choice.

Mind you, I never said the Clans were infallible. They just have less mech choices and can't do all of the same roles due to lack of structure and armor quirks. But then, you need some give-and-take considering how weight-and-crit efficient Clanner stuff is.

Agreed on Clan 100 tonners-those freaking suck, but then, so do most IS variants of 100 tonners.

im simply saying that in all roles except range peeking with laservomit,
IS mechs do far better. and its not just me thats saying this.
ask any of the pro streamers. the guys who play this every day.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

for the sake of being fair i actually scrolled back a number of pages.
and i owe you an apology. this quote was made, but not by you. my mistake.

No worries. And sorry for all the smilies, I get super-snarky really quickly!

[Dungeon 206]

Jep Jorgensson, on 12 May 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

More and more, I am thinking that this video might be actually real.

oh thats good.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dungeon 206, on 12 May 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

so really. take away laser vomit and all clanners gonna do now is sit back and rain missiles.
nothing else to do really... cause its all been tried.

I'd rather not lose Clan laservomit (or IS laservomit), so many 'mechs I have are set up for that.

If they really have to nerf Clan laservomit, then I'd rather PGI either;

1. Reduce the damage of lasers, but reduce duration to compensate

OR

2. Link Large & Medium class lasers, then unlink Medium & Small class lasers, restore LPL to 13 damage, restore MPL to 8 damage & increase SPL to 5 damage (not 6, not yet).

[ShooterMcGavin80]

The clan small pulse laser was definitely OP before it got nerfed. That was the right thing to do.

But this is just crazy talk. Clan laser vomit is only useful for mid range poking big, slow targets. Fast little buggers or aggressive IS brawlers have I feel a very solid advantage on clan laser vomit builds.

Some clan mechs have hardpoint diversity and may be able to work around it, but what the heck can you put on a MAD-IIC now? I think you just have to go all MPL and stagger the shots. Previously you had options to go LPL/ERML or HLL/ERML, HLL/MPL. Now you're going to have to do some absurdly bizarre mix of lasers.