291 replies to this topic

[thievingmagpi]

Xetelian, on 11 May 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

Pretty soon we'll only be able to fire one weapon at a time otherwise ghost heat and Time to Kill will be the whole match.

next up, they're gonna nerf aiming.

[Arturo Costa]

Nerf bat to a single ridiculously simple set of builds. 2 cERLL + 4 cERML will still be a respectable punch with very good sustained heat dissipation at 81kph base on the Clan side, while some IS builds may do slightly more damage at 70kph or less. Does anyone even run laser vomit IS side anymore? Strongest builds in MRBC right now IS side outside of WLF-2 are all projectile based.

People just crying because they can't put 64-78 damage onto 1 button anymore and will have to learn how to press buttons more than 5-6x per game on average. Lasers are 1 step up from clicking into a red box and should never have been the most effective weapon system. Game will be better off for a sad margin of the player base losing its crutch, and it will be funny watching people smash rocks with their random autocannon shells.

[Apache1990]

Read more closely, this isn't a nerf to clan lasers, it's a buff.

The current ghost heat limit for ER Mediums was 6, not 7. 7 is the minimum amount of ghost heat generated for firing more than 6.

[Bud Crue]

I hate nerfs. I really hate nerfs that do precisely the opposite of what Chris and Paul said they wanted to achieve almost exactly a year ago. Namely: provide a system wherein players are encouraged to run more diverse builds, where mechs are not some sort of puzzle wherein only one build has a key to success.

All these nerfs are going to do is force folks to chase a new meta arrangement of laser vomit or gauss vomit that avoids or minimizes ghost heat. That's it. They may as well just give players a template to follow...because that is exactly what folks are going to do. Or worse, they will simply decide that certain mechs are not not worth running at all. How's that for improved diversity?

Geezus.

This makes it now a solid year (with the sole exception being November) of monthly nerfs since Chris asserted that balance is the best its ever been. If balance is/was so great why do you keep screwing with it? STOP. JUST STOP. You are killing any desire many of us have to buy mechs, or level them,or even play them; given that we know with absolute certainty that next month, or maybe the month after, you will break what we have built, despite this oh so great "balance" that you pretend we have. What's next? A nerf to the AC5? Maybe the micro lasers?

God damn I am sick of this.


I hate nerfs to my IS mechs.
I hate nerfs to my clan mechs.
I hate nerfs to my favorites.
I hate nerfs to yours.

But these nerfs? This is beyond hate.

[thievingmagpi]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

I hate nerfs. I really hate nerfs that do precisely the opposite of what Chris and Paul said they wanted to achieve almost exactly a year ago. Namely: provide a system wherein players are encouraged to run more diverse builds, where mechs are not some sort of puzzle wherein only one build has a key to success.

All these nerfs are going to do is force folks to chase a new meta arrangement of laser vomit or gauss vomit that avoids or minimizes ghost heat. That's it. They may as well just give players a template to follow...because that is exactly what folks are going to do. Or worse, they will simply decide that certain mechs are not not worth running at all. How's that for improved diversity?

Geezus.

This makes it now a solid year (with the sole exception being November) of monthly nerfs since Chris asserted that balance is the best its ever been. If balance is/was so great why do you keep screwing with it? STOP. JUST STOP. You are killing any desire many of us have to buy mechs, or level them,or even play them; given that we know with absolute certainty that next month, or maybe the month after, you will break what we have built, despite this oh so great "balance" that you pretend we have. What's next? A nerf to the AC5? Maybe the micro lasers?

God damn I am sick of this.


I hate nerfs to my IS mechs.
I hate nerfs to my clan mechs.
I hate nerfs to my favorites.
I hate nerfs to yours.

But these nerfs? This is beyond hate.

I honestly have no explanation for it. It's just stupid after stupid. I've been a vocal defender of pgi choices for a long time but I can't keep doing it when they continually wish to alienate players.

Their vision is something akin to this

[The Lighthouse]

Apache1990, on 11 May 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

Read more closely, this isn't a nerf to clan lasers, it's a buff.

The current ghost heat limit for ER Mediums was 6, not 7. 7 is the minimum amount of ghost heat generated for firing more than 6.

You are confused, 7 Means that as soon as you put 7 ERML you get ghost heat. Now they are reducing that as soon as you put 5 you will get ghost heat, basically only 4 are allowed now.

[N0ni]

So we can't PPC/Gauss.

We can't Dakka too much.

Missile boating is frowned upon and was called for apparent changes (all the missles were touched).

We can't pew pew too much.

What CAN we do?! How about letting players decide how they want to play instead of penalize people for having fun the way they choose to. For once.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am really getting F'ing tired of this crap. I grind for hours and hours, and spend even more hours perfecting builds on my mechs, the F'ing nerf things. Grind again for hours and hours for more C-bills, spend more hours perfecting my builds on my mechs and they F'ing nerf things. Over and F'ing Over and F'ing Over.


STOP F"ing NERFING!!!!!!!!!

[Bud Crue]

N0ni, on 11 May 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

So we can't PPC/Gauss.

We can't Dakka too much.

Missile boating is frowned upon and was called for apparent changes (all the missles were touched).

We can't pew pew too much.

What CAN we do?! How about letting players decide how they want to play instead of penalize people for having fun the way they choose to. For once.

Paul stated in one of the various podcast/twitch/NGNG thingies a couple months ago that the primary goal of PGI's balance efforts is to increase TTK.

And so here we are.
Great /s

I wonder what's next.

[Bombast]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Paul stated in one of the various podcast/twitch/NGNG thingies a couple months ago that the primary goal of PGI's balance efforts is to increase TTK.

That was the podcast where he basically said they wanted to nerf everything and the Community Balance Sheet guys could cram their efforts up their own rear CTs along with the heads, right (Colorful visualizations added, of course)?

[Asym]

thievingmagpi, on 11 May 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

I honestly have no explanation for it. It's just stupid after stupid. I've been a vocal defender of pgi choices for a long time but I can't keep doing it when they continually wish to alienate players.

The explaination is simple: SOLARIS.

This is a small arena, FPS where TTK is idealy greater than 5 minutes..... Ah, killers, you are too quick and that shortens the play time and makes play too competitive, to quick........frewer sales and disgruntaled customers (the buy a mech pack crew...) Wait, this is just the beginning.... It must be as simple as the 1960's "Rock-and-Sock'em-Robots" for this S7 concept to really sell mechs and stuff.... Sorry, a hard sales reality.........

[N0ni]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Paul stated in one of the various podcast/twitch/NGNG thingies a couple months ago that the primary goal of PGI's balance efforts is to increase TTK.

And so here we are.
Great /s

I wonder what's next.

Honestly, haven't been around since Jan... not that i follow any podcasts/streams anyway.

I guess they'll succeed in increasing TTK if more people go on hiatus or straight up leave. I wanted to play more, but i don't see that happening if i have to change out a good chunk of mechs. Extremely disappointed that i can't play Novas anymore (favorite being 6 SL, 6 ML... can't do that anymore).

What they never realize is that nerfs like these affect those below the "top tier" more than it does the better ones. But hey, i guess a 6 ML Kitfox was too OP, RIP Purifier pods.

[Bud Crue]

Bombast, on 11 May 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

That was the podcast where he basically said they wanted to nerf everything and the Community Balance Sheet guys could cram their efforts up their own rear CTs along with the heads, right (Colorful visualizations added, of course)?

Well...I believe the words he used regarding the community balance effort was that it lacked "overwhelming community support" (which is thus apparently their standard for adopting player suggestions) and that it was a "big change" and that PGI doesn't do "big changes" (-rolls eyes again just thinking of the absurdity of that comment then and now, particularly in light of this months nerfs-); but yeah cramming was implied.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 11 May 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

Let's see.

IS large vs Clan HL (b/c identical ranges)

200% damage...
40.909% longer duration...
228% heat....
85% longer cooldown...

Let's look deeper.

Damage / Duration............. Clan gets 42.9% more damage per second.
Damage / Heat....................Clan gets 12.5% less damage per heat.
Damage / Entire timespan..Clan gets 15% more damage per second until the weapon can be fired again (including cooldown)

Yeah, I think pretty much everyone in the game would equip a module that gave them ~15% more damage at the cost of heat.

And that's ignoring the MASSIVE range advantage (Clan does IS full damage at almost 700 meters.)

That is way too simplistic. You have to take into account critical slot usage and the overall heat generation of the build including all weapons, all of which are damn hot for the Clans, not to mention factors such as how the massive heat spikes Clan weapons tend to have can push you into the red really quickly and dramatically effect heat dissipation rates. You also got to take into account beam duration as your mech doesn't start cooling until after the beam finishes so every time a Clan mech fires a laser weapon, there is about a 30% greater delay in cooling taking effect compared to your typical IS mech.

A single HLL put a hell of alot of strain on your ability to control heat. 2 is already a major draw and generally speaking I find I have to have a minimum of 16 DHS just to comfortably cool off just two HLL's without any crazy ghost heat factoring in. Toss on a couple MPLs and your looking at needing 18 DHS minimum. Add a couple more MPLs and you at 20+ DHS. There aren't all that many clan mechs that can devote 10+ tons of their build just for extra DHS. We are talking a 26 ton build for 2 HLL and 4 MPLs minimum, 24 tons if you a masochist and don't mind overheating every other shot. Also don't give me that BS that Clan weapon damage out classes IS weapon damage because generally speaking when you take into account beam duration and cooldown, your typical IS mech can fire about 3 times for every 2 times that a Clan mech can fire and that is not even taking into account how much easier it is to concentrate your damage on a pinpoint target with IS laser weapons due to them having only about 66% of the beam duration of Clan laser weapons.

[Wing 0]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Paul stated in one of the various podcast/twitch/NGNG thingies a couple months ago that the primary goal of PGI's balance efforts is to increase TTK.

And so here we are.
Great /s

I wonder what's next.

There is no such thing as Time to Kill. Paul created nothing but a lousy excuse. This is rich coming from a dev who messes with server parameters on purpose whenever Tina would host on Twitch back in the day.

[Khalcruth]

Andi Nagasia, on 11 May 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

again please remember everyone,
IS = 6xERML + 2LL = 48Damge, 41Heat, 16Tons,
Clan = 4xERML + 2LPL = 52Damge, 45.2Heat, 16Tons

Also note - exactly how many IS mechs actually have the 8 energy hardpoints to be able to do that? It's not exactly a gigantic number. However, given the ridiculous levels of hardpoint swapping Clan mechs can come up with, for them you're looking more along the lines of "how many clan mechs can't do it".

Quote

personally i think we should see how it plays before claiming the sky is falling?

Nah, don't do that, that's crazy talk. Besides, Clan tears are extra yummy.

[Mystere]

Monkey Lover, on 11 May 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

You really going to cancel orders over half a second you will have to delay a few weapons?

His money, his choice. <shrugs>

[The Lighthouse]

Still you guys should keep pre-order for just for funding lawsuit against Harmony Gold, at least.

[BTGbullseye]

Monkey Lover, on 11 May 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

You really going to cancel orders over half a second you will have to delay a few weapons?

It's actually burn time + 500ms... That means the difference between getting 75% of the damage on the intended component before twisting occurs, and 25% of the damage. Even worse, the delay time can even be enough to reduce that damage potential by 25% simply by leaving the enemy enough time to run into cover. Also, it gives the enemy an extra 1.5+ seconds to return fire.

[Wing 0]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

I hate nerfs. I really hate nerfs that do precisely the opposite of what Chris and Paul said they wanted to achieve almost exactly a year ago. Namely: provide a system wherein players are encouraged to run more diverse builds, where mechs are not some sort of puzzle wherein only one build has a key to success.

All these nerfs are going to do is force folks to chase a new meta arrangement of laser vomit or gauss vomit that avoids or minimizes ghost heat. That's it. They may as well just give players a template to follow...because that is exactly what folks are going to do. Or worse, they will simply decide that certain mechs are not not worth running at all. How's that for improved diversity?

Geezus.

This makes it now a solid year (with the sole exception being November) of monthly nerfs since Chris asserted that balance is the best its ever been. If balance is/was so great why do you keep screwing with it? STOP. JUST STOP. You are killing any desire many of us have to buy mechs, or level them,or even play them; given that we know with absolute certainty that next month, or maybe the month after, you will break what we have built, despite this oh so great "balance" that you pretend we have. What's next? A nerf to the AC5? Maybe the micro lasers?

God damn I am sick of this.


I hate nerfs to my IS mechs.
I hate nerfs to my clan mechs.
I hate nerfs to my favorites.
I hate nerfs to yours.

But these nerfs? This is beyond hate.

Well said.