51 replies to this topic

[Tier5ForLife]

No one in any army or anyone using any scope sees a lame reticle like we have.

I have a better one on my $20 scope on my Air Rifle.

And they have the gall to say "would you like a color-blind one"?

Does anyone know what a real reticle look like? Do you see the one we are given anywhere below?

Edited by LikeUntoBuddha, 20 May 2018 - 04:30 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

1. Weapons in MWO don't have projectile drop. Mildots, range markers, &c. would be pointless tacticool clutter.

2. We need a crosshair capable of displaying torso/arm aim differentiation. The cross/circle pair makes the difference immediately noticeable.

3. A colorblind-friendly UI is something that would actually offer a meaningful improvement to the game for people. You wanting to strap a 2x rifle optic to the front of your cockpit wouldn't.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 20 May 2018 - 12:58 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 May 2018 - 05:17 AM, said:

1. Weapons in MWO don't have projectile drop. Mildots, range markers, &c. would be pointless tacticool clutter.

Incorrect. All ballistics excluding the Gauss have drop.

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 May 2018 - 05:17 AM, said:

2. We need a crosshair capable of displaying torso/arm aim differentiation. The cross/circle pair makes the different immediately noticeable.

Accurate.

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 May 2018 - 05:17 AM, said:

3. A colorblind-friendly UI is something that would actually offer a meaningful improvement to the game for people. You wanting to strap a 2x rifle optic to the front of your cockpit wouldn't.

That is subjective.

[Tarl Cabot]

I would be happy if the reticles were switched around, at least. Was about to ask why put this thread in the newbie subforum, then realized it does not have as fast of a turnover rate..

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 May 2018 - 05:47 AM.

[Hierarch]

Also, you know you can aim at 2 things at once? A cluttered scope would make that more difficult. Aside from the AC20 do any of the ballistics have meaningful drop? By that I mean do they lose all their damage before the drop takes effect. One last thing, a scope for a howitzer would be a more accurate comparison then a rifle scope.

Edited by Jack Cisco, 20 May 2018 - 06:34 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

BTGbullseye, on 20 May 2018 - 05:22 AM, said:

Incorrect. All ballistics excluding the Gauss have drop.

It's wholly irrelevant to gameplay. Drop doesn't even begin to become noticeable until well outside the maximum damage range of a given weapon.

I need a mildot scope when I'm playing ArmA because I'm going to be taking 1-2km shots at infantry/light vehicles and expecting to hit and kill them with rounds that can drop double-digit meters at that range. Most weapons in MWO don't even cause meaningful damage outside ~750m, and the few that can reach farther typically top out at ~1.5km. Not that it's relevant, because almost no maps have actively played areas with sightlines much longer than 1km.

Here's an example with UAC/5s. Flat terrain, a fixed target, starting at 2km range.



You can see the reference at the end. The pier I was shooting at is, by my estimate, ~10-12m tall, using the 18m Atlas as a baseline reference.

At 2km, well outside effective range, shots are still dropping inside the arm reticle and were still hitting above the base of the pier. By the time I'm at 1400m (~maximum range) they're nearly centerpoint. By 800m (~maximum effective range) they're dead-center.

The same sort of pattern holds for all ballistics. At any range you're likely to engage at in MWO, you have zero drop. Even well beyond effective engagement range your drop is slight enough that aiming center-mass on a medium 'mech would still achieve hits.

I wasn't precise enough, but the point stands. There is functionally no significant ballistic drop in MWO. Happy? There is zero reason to have a mildot scope in MechWarrior, that's a level of granularity far above what's necessary. It's like complaining that we don't have a survival kit modeled in our cockpits.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 20 May 2018 - 01:44 PM.

[Hierarch]

I would like to see a test of the AC 20 as I do believe there is drop well within it's effective range. But I rarely use the weapon.

[Spare Parts Bin]

A new scope with range finder would be nice.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Jack Cisco, on 20 May 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

I would like to see a test of the AC 20 as I do believe there is drop well within it's effective range. But I rarely use the weapon.

You can test it for yourself in the testing grounds. Just find a piece of flat vertical terrain on a level surface with a long sightline and walk towards/away from it while firing. The default IS AC/20 range band is 270m max ideal range, 540 max range. It hits dead center out until ~450m. It starts hitting on the edge of the arm reticle at ~485m, but doesn't actually drop below until ~550m.

So that's still fairly consistent, just with a slightly faster dropoff at the default maximum range. The AC/20 is the heaviest round you can fire, after all. Also worth noting that it has the lowest velocity and an anemic ammo per ton count, so you're not going to be plinking people with it at 500m anyways--it's a brawling weapon.

Fun fact, I went the other way and tested AC/2s as well. The max distance on the rangefinder-

Spare Parts Bin, on 20 May 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

A new scope with range finder would be nice.

-we have one of those, yes, it's to the right of the crosshair--

the max distance on the rangefinder will give out and display infinite distance to target before you start seeing shells drop below the arm crosshair. They were still tapping the rim of it at 2km out, and time-to-target is short enough on AC/2s to track moving 'mechs at that range.

e: And because I know it will probably come up, re: "But why shouldn't you shoot your AC/20 at 400-500m out?"

The AC/20 has won the Triple Crown of suffering disproportionately from damage dropoff.

1. Short-ranged weapons are hit harder by damage dropoff as each unit of range incurs more damage loss. An AC/2 takes 405m to drop from 100% damage to 50% damage (hint: that's a little under 80% of the AC/20's maximum range); an AC/20 takes ~80m to drop from 100% damage to 50% damage. Having shorter base range also means lower benefits from range gained from quirks and the skill tree.

2. High-damage weapons are hit harder by damage dropoff because they have more to lose. In that ~80m of dropoff the AC/20 loses 10 damage. In that same distance the MLas, which has the same range band, loses 2.5 damage. When an AC/2 fires at 50% damage range, it loses 1 damage. Alone, this isn't so bad. However, it meshes with the next point.

3. Ammo-based. Ammo-fed weapons are not good candidates for long-range potshots simply because they're limited by a finite resource. Energy weapons you can shoot all day at max range and you'll be fine as long as you take the time to cool down before getting stuck in. This is even worse for the AC/20 because it has such low ammo per ton.

So that's kinda the long and short of it. If you want to plink things at 500m with an AC/20 you won't have any real trouble, but it's incredibly wasteful and will drop your damage into the gutter.

As for my own experience, the only time I've ever deliberately elevated above my target with ballistics has been while trying to skim long-range shots over the edges of invisible terrain on Tourmaline and Polar to hit exposed slivers of 'mech.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 20 May 2018 - 07:14 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 May 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

It's wholly irrelevant to gameplay. Drop doesn't even begin to become noticeable until well outside the maximum damage range of a given weapon.

You're using a Moving Goalposts fallacy. You did not include that clarification in the posts made prior to my response. While I do not disagree with this clarification, it also does not invalidate my response to what you previously stated.

[Cloves]

BTGbullseye, on 20 May 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

You're using a Moving Goalposts fallacy. You did not include that clarification in the posts made prior to my response. While I do not disagree with this clarification, it also does not invalidate my response to what you previously stated.

So you are technically correct, but irrelevant in this application? Ballistic drop is why rifles had ladder sights. In this game, as long as the round can do damage, it has no applicable drop that you would need a BDC scope for. So you where nitpicking to be more correct than some other fellow on the internet?

[Dawgface]

Mil dots on a rifle scope are for measuring range, so you know your target is X number of yards away. Then you can either adjust your holdover or your turret accordingly.

Our reticle already has a range finder as was stated above.

[BTGbullseye]

Cloves, on 26 May 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

In this game, as long as the round can do damage, it has no applicable drop that you would need a BDC scope for.

You've never tried to use a AC/UAC20 to take out a hill humpar at 500m have you... You have to aim above the target to get it to not impact the hill, and hope you aimed low enough that it won't just sail right over harmlessly. Your reticle is entirely above the enemy at that range. Same problem if you're going for headshots outside of optimal range. (it can still do 1-shot headshots with 2x 20s at outside optimal)

[Cloves]

BTGbullseye, on 27 May 2018 - 02:45 AM, said:

You've never tried to use a AC/UAC20 to take out a hill humpar at 500m have you... You have to aim above the target to get it to not impact the hill, and hope you aimed low enough that it won't just sail right over harmlessly. Your reticle is entirely above the enemy at that range. Same problem if you're going for headshots outside of optimal range. (it can still do 1-shot headshots with 2x 20s at outside optimal)

Thank you for the civil explanation , I misunderstood your earlier post to be merely contrary. You are correct, my use of the ac20 weapon systems has never reached this level of finesse. I use them on brawlers at short range and generally have very good sightlines at my targets before I take my shot due to the slow round with the slow refire. I only snipe with the 10 or more likely 5 and 2.

Edited by Cloves, 27 May 2018 - 07:42 AM.

[Horseman]

BTGbullseye, on 27 May 2018 - 02:45 AM, said:

You've never tried to use a AC/UAC20 to take out a hill humpar at 500m have you... You have to aim above the target to get it to not impact the hill, and hope you aimed low enough that it won't just sail right over harmlessly. Your reticle is entirely above the enemy at that range. Same problem if you're going for headshots outside of optimal range. (it can still do 1-shot headshots with 2x 20s at outside optimal)

When you fire AC20 at 500M, you're doing somewhere around 1/3rd of nominal damage. A double-tap at above 450m has no chance of headcapping an enemy mech with full cockpit armor.

If you find yourself firing at that range often, switch to 10's.

Edited by Horseman, 27 May 2018 - 05:48 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

But it does scare hill humpers into not doing so for a prolonged period. That's way more important in most matches where that is a common tactic. (for a win, not just your personal kill count)

[Koniving]

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 May 2018 - 05:17 AM, said:

1. Weapons in MWO don't have projectile drop. Mildots, range markers, &c. would be pointless tacticool clutter.

Projectile drop in MWO


"Holy crap there's bullet drop now." -- 2014.

[BTGbullseye]

Koniving, on 27 May 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Projectile drop in MWO


"Holy crap there's bullet drop now." -- 2014.

Wow those are some slow LRMs...

[Koniving]

I want the classic LRMs...

Spoiler

Remember/seen them?

[BTGbullseye]

I remember them for the few matches I had during the beta being way too expensive to run for me to worry about. lol

I want current IS mechanics, but that firing pattern. (including for Clan LRMs)