105 replies to this topic

[50 50]

Seeing as we have seen 4 of the classics maps re-added to the rotation and in April 2019 we will see a new version of Canyon added as a snow map, I wanted to bring up this conversation again.

Something that I have recently started wondering about is whether or not the spawn locations and out of bounds areas can be adjusted to create different map experiences.

I'd like to refer to the new frozen city vs the frozen city classic map here.
The new frozen city expanded the play area across the ravine and added in the whole area on that right had side.
The original parts of the map as shown in the classic version are mostly still there with the drop ship, the cavern passageway etc.
Even Forest Colony is mostly there, the tunnel is the obvious difference.

I would be interested to know if it would be possible to take some of the large maps we have and by having different drop locations and out of bounds areas create different areas to battle in that might provide a different experience.

For example, take the new frozen city.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...city&m=skirmish

If we drew a line from D5 down to J5, the left hand side of that is basically the classic map area.
But what if we could use the out of bounds to draw a line from D5 to E6 and around to E9 forcing play into the top section of the map?
Or perhaps just down the ravine in the middle?

Would that allow us to effectively create different areas to battle on that would be easier to implement than bringing in brand new maps? Not saying I don't want to see brand new maps, but it might be a way to multiply the options of what we already have.

Look at new forest colony as another example.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...lony&m=skirmish

The classic map is roughly the bottom section there with the water and the boat.
What if we could use the out of bounds to set the fight in the top section from about D6 to G11?
Or from D6 down to I6 and force the battle into that left section in the mountains?

Potentially there are multple areas we could battle in within each of these large maps that would provide us with a different game experience.

Not only could that create variety for us, but extend that thinking a little further to team size and also to Faction Play.

If the mach maker allowed us fight with smaller teams (ie. catering for low population) then utilizing smaller areas of the one large map gives a large number of options.

For faction play it creates an interesting option for a mode to use objectives to unlock another section of the map and a dynamic spawn point option so that if a team gets forced back, they spawn at the next location further back.

To use Forest Colony as an example again.

Say the initial battle is a beach landing in the top section from say D6 to F8 and over to F12

The team that is assaulting the beach has to force their way up and secure an objective which then opens up and extends the battle area. It might be that they take control of an objective at E7 and this extends the areas on the left hand side down to the G line.

Maybe it's even possible to use the out of bounds to create objectives at a lance level so that perhaps one lance has the task in the above example of moving down to G11 to secure a location there, which in turn opens that right hand side and allows the two to halves of the map to connect via the canyon pathway.

A lot of the game play focuses around some central areas, but maybe it's possible to have much more of a tug of war within each map using objectives to control map areas.
Obviously needs some additional components such as how to manage the drops and drop locations, but I wonder if it might be a feasible approach?

[Vellron2005]

I think that there's simply no way around it..

The game needs NEW MAPS.

Not old maps. Not "classic" maps. Not bits and pieces of existing maps.

NEW

MAPS.

Or, alternatively, the procedurally generated maps coming in MW5.. that would be ideal..

But yeah..

[50 50]

New maps are obviously nice to get in the game.
Don't get me wrong, I would definitely like to see more added.
But it is the time and resources it takes to get them added, along with adding an environment that plays differently to the other maps we have which makes it a slow and infrequent process.
Hence the reintroduction of the classic maps and this month we will see the new winter version of Canyon Network added (with some small variations in the terrain apparently).
That's all very cool.

But to add to that, many of the maps we have only see action in some key central areas.
Therefore what I am suggesting is that by changing the out of bounds, we would be able to utilize areas that very rarely get visited if at all. This would give players a different experience because of the different terrain and it means we could effectively get multiple uses out a single map through changing the engagement area.

Further more, if we got that functionality developed we might be able to have a mode added that uses control points to adjust the out of bounds creating a bit more of a progressive battle based on objectives. There are some interesting possibilities.

[Nesutizale]

Moveing the boundaries around or have the capture or domination points in different places would be a nice change for older maps. Still it dosn't solve the problem that maps are getting old.

With the re-release of the old maps it became obviouse to me that we need different playstyles. Not modes, thats something else but maps that give you different playstyles like the old maps are more direct combat maps as they are smaller. Less hiding more "in your face" style. The other maps all are more about nascar, maybe Rubi has a bit more going with different hights and different pathes to the center.

I think the game needs more maps that give differances in that regard of how you approach them beside the modes.

[Mr Andersson]

I would really like to have more balanced maps. But that I mean maps that allow for both brawling and long range play. Like Tourmaline, Rubellite, Grim and Frozen City (new).

Maps that go to either extreme are less fun because they punish you if you didn't bring the "correct" build for the map. The maps I consider extreme are Polar and Alpine for long range and Solaris and Frozen City (classic) for brawling.

Also, Solaris City is the worst thing that ever happened to this game. Get rid of it.

[Nesutizale]

Mixing in some maps that favor a certain playstyle like brawls or longrange could breake up the monotonie of boating as people have to adapt to a different way of fighting or be left out.
I think that haveing extreme maps could do more in favor of divers loadouts then all the patches we had for weapons as the current maps still reward you more for boating then diversity.
When you have to come prepared for all kinds of battlefields its something different then come boating and just stay at your favorit spot.

[LordNothing]

TWIAFU, on 22 May 2018 - 04:21 AM, said:

All based on Ringworld.

Nothing original there.

ringworld came out in the 70s. centrifuges have been in scifi a lot longer than that. discovery from 2001 ('68) had a centrifuge (granted its too small to keep from vomiting all the time). they have been used for pilot training since the '30s. tsiolkovsky came up with the idea back in 1903.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 April 2019 - 07:49 AM.

[FuzzyNova]

I have wanted to see a more Open Field Type of map. Like the Farmland one. Luscious green rolling hills opening up to a stretch of Trees or forest maybe on one side for ambushing. Hell A small City or town in the middle? You could make it different instead of Each side of the map being similar. Snow maps are not something we need. Definitely not hot maps either.

Solaris City is ok. But I think it's also the most demanding map on your desktop or laptop. I can play It fine but even for my Nvidia GeForce Gtx 1050ti/and Ryzen 5 2400 Vega/ it shows.

If you can somehow create another HPG Manifold type map or Canyon Network that would be epic.

Personally Canyon Network is one of my favorite maps.

Nothing like Mechs fighting in the Rocky canyons of a desert.

[Athom83]

Personally I'd like to condense the current maps that have multiple variants (Frozen Classic and Classic night, Canyon and the soon to be Canyon Snow, etc) into a singlular map and just improve the randomizer. By that I mean add in different weather possibilities, map states (soaked and partially flooded if its raining, snow covered if its snowing, sometimes partially destroyed and ruined as if a large battle happened sometime recently in the past, etc), times of day, make it where a map has different objective and spawn locations for the same mode, et cetera. And then of course apply that to maps that don't have multiple versions.

Edited by Athom83, 10 April 2019 - 12:10 PM.

[Nesutizale]

No more HPG, no more HPG. I don't get what people like about that map. Its nascar all the time and people no taking top while a freaking sniper is somewhere laughing his *** off and a light that survies and you need a hell lot of time to find him to finaly end the match.
Everything else but another HPG...except you have it domination only with a 3 mechs wide circle.

[50 50]

Athom83, on 10 April 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Personally I'd like to condense the current maps that have multiple variants (Frozen Classic and Classic night, Canyon and the soon to be Canyon Snow, etc) into a singlular map and just improve the randomizer. By that I mean add in different weather possibilities, map states (soaked and partially flooded if its raining, snow covered if its snowing, sometimes partially destroyed and ruined as if a large battle happened sometime recently in the past, etc), times of day, make it where a map has different objective and spawn locations for the same mode, et cetera. And then of course apply that to maps that don't have multiple versions.

When PGI started working on the changing time of day, weather effects and destructible items there were several requests about adding some additional random features.
I thought that having some additional battle effects would have been very cool and make it feel a bit more immersive as well as potentially changing the map layout. Oh, we can't go that way because there is a crashed dropship now blocking the path.

FuzzyNova, on 10 April 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:

I have wanted to see a more Open Field Type of map. Like the Farmland one. Luscious green rolling hills opening up to a stretch of Trees or forest maybe on one side for ambushing. Hell A small City or town in the middle? You could make it different instead of Each side of the map being similar. Snow maps are not something we need. Definitely not hot maps either.

Solaris City is ok. But I think it's also the most demanding map on your desktop or laptop. I can play It fine but even for my Nvidia GeForce Gtx 1050ti/and Ryzen 5 2400 Vega/ it shows.

If you can somehow create another HPG Manifold type map or Canyon Network that would be epic.

Personally Canyon Network is one of my favorite maps.

Nothing like Mechs fighting in the Rocky canyons of a desert.

Something like the farmlands map that was proposed earlier would be nice.
I'd be interested to see the earth like textures and assets applied to a map like Polar, Tourmaline or Alpine even just for the pure visual appearance.

Nesutizale, on 10 April 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:

No more HPG, no more HPG. I don't get what people like about that map. Its nascar all the time and people no taking top while a freaking sniper is somewhere laughing his *** off and a light that survies and you need a hell lot of time to find him to finaly end the match.
Everything else but another HPG...except you have it domination only with a 3 mechs wide circle.

HPG is a pretty solid map but does have that central structure people will rotate around given the chance.
I think it's also popular as it doesn't seem to tax the computer as much so it plays better.

If getting brand new maps into the game is such an ordeal, it would make some sense to be able to alter the engagement areas and reuse the maps in different ways.
To take HPG as an example.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...base&m=skirmish
If the out of bounds area was adjusted and we could only fight in one of the outer areas we would get a different sort of game.
There would be no nascar because we have to progress between the different wall sections and would be facing off in firing lines both on the ground in the craters and around the obstructions but also on the wall.
It creates different challenges for us and players/teams will work out new tactics and so on.

[Kanil]

50 50, on 08 April 2019 - 08:22 PM, said:

If we drew a line from D5 down to J5, the left hand side of that is basically the classic map area.
But what if we could use the out of bounds to draw a line from D5 to E6 and around to E9 forcing play into the top section of the map?

Just gotta plop the domination circle in the "new" city, don't even have to mess around with out of bounds.

I really wish PGI would do more with what they already have, with spawn locations and objectives. It'd bring more variety to existing maps, and you could even get some usage out of the CW maps in QP that way.

[50 50]

Ok, so the patch notes for April 2019 have just popped up and we have a preview of the new map.

I am going to say it is a new map as while it has been based on Canyon Network and we can see various aspects of that map in the design, the do over in the winter tileset along with a few extra changes and features in the terrain..... it looks quite different.
A mix of the volcanic terrain bursting through the ice layer. Mix of hot and cold like this is something we haven't had yet.



I am impressed.

If this is what could be done with the other maps and various different tile sets.... fantastic! Do more of this!
Would it be too early to ask what will be next?
Perhaps we should setup a vote?

Edited by 50 50, 11 April 2019 - 07:25 PM.

[Nesutizale]

So far it looks good indeed. Will be interesting to see how the changes affect gameplay but if its done well I would vote for more maps like that.

[Vellron2005]

50 50, on 11 April 2019 - 07:24 PM, said:

Ok, so the patch notes for April 2019 have just popped up and we have a preview of the new map.

I am going to say it is a new map as while it has been based on Canyon Network and we can see various aspects of that map in the design, the do over in the winter tileset along with a few extra changes and features in the terrain..... it looks quite different.
A mix of the volcanic terrain bursting through the ice layer. Mix of hot and cold like this is something we haven't had yet.



I am impressed.

If this is what could be done with the other maps and various different tile sets.... fantastic! Do more of this!
Would it be too early to ask what will be next?
Perhaps we should setup a vote?

The map looks great, and very beautiful in the preview.. I hope it will be similarly open and fun as Canyon Network is..

I've been suggesting they re-use tile sets for years now.. just add them to different terrain, but with same or similar assets.. so we can have 10 ice maps, 10 city maps, 10 grim maps, 10 desert maps, 10 forest maps..

One question though.. Do mechs only fight on places that have downed dropships?

I think like, half the maps in this game have a downed dropship featured.. Am I right?

Still.. so far, map looks great.. and I'm very happy it's not another "classic" map..

Edited by Vellron2005, 12 April 2019 - 01:37 AM.

[Alienized]

i keep on saying, drop a damn avalon class on polar highlands instead of a simple dropship.
but nooo...

[Nesutizale]

How about haveing a Dropship in a more active role? Like a scenario where you have to stop a dropship from escaping.
Place an Overlord dropship at one side of the map. Add some generators with light defences around the map. Maybe some stationary tanks and turrets. Also the Overloard would be fully operational and firing on the players too.

On the other hand players will be in a 24 man team that has to keep the Overlord from escaping by blowing up the generators, who power some of the defances and the Overlords engines and weaponsystems. All that comes with a time limit.

I think that could be interesting?

[LordNothing]

after watching the videos im still not impressed. i see too much canyon network. there are a couple nice touches but its really the same old map. and add to that the fact that its a snow map and you got more of the same. mech canadian online.

problem with this kind of thing is its too terrestrial. battletech takes place on other planets. and there isnt much diversity. id rather have used the grim tileset or another hodgepodge like rubellite oasis. perhaps another vitric forge style map for qp? its time for a new tileset with a more alien look. or a few more maps with seldom used tilesets (like terra therma or caustic).

tldr too much snow!

[evilauthor]

LordNothing, on 12 April 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:

problem with this kind of thing is its too terrestrial. battletech takes place on other planets. and there isnt much diversity.

Battletech doesn't fight battles just for the sake of fighting battles. They're fighting battles for the control of planets where people live. And most people live on planets that provide natural life support, aka, terrestrial planets. So of course most battles take place in terrestrial environments.

HPG station being on an airless moon is rather... unusual for the setting. And God only knows what's worth fighting over in the volcanic hell of Terra Therma.

And I'm wondering what the hell happened to Frozen City. This was an obviously coastal city (there's sea going ships around the map) that was somehow suddenly hit with an ice age.

Anyway, I want to see a spaceport map. Not the tiny one in River City, but a BIG spaceport with giant spheroid dropships parked on the tarmac. Some of those dropships would have open doors so you can go inside them, either to pass through or to hide. What should be a big flat open plain... isn't because there's plenty of dropships and giant vehicles meant to move those dropships (think the NASA crawler, only bigger) and a few buildings littered around the map providing plenty of cover.

[LordNothing]

evilauthor, on 12 April 2019 - 10:38 AM, said:

Battletech doesn't fight battles just for the sake of fighting battles. They're fighting battles for the control of planets where people live. And most people live on planets that provide natural life support, aka, terrestrial planets. So of course most battles take place in terrestrial environments.

HPG station being on an airless moon is rather... unusual for the setting. And God only knows what's worth fighting over in the volcanic hell of Terra Therma.

And I'm wondering what the hell happened to Frozen City. This was an obviously coastal city (there's sea going ships around the map) that was somehow suddenly hit with an ice age.

Anyway, I want to see a spaceport map. Not the tiny one in River City, but a BIG spaceport with giant spheroid dropships parked on the tarmac. Some of those dropships would have open doors so you can go inside them, either to pass through or to hide. What should be a big flat open plain... isn't because there's plenty of dropships and giant vehicles meant to move those dropships (think the NASA crawler, only bigger) and a few buildings littered around the map providing plenty of cover.

in battletech books people live anywhere, even on hostile planets. the clans also tend to fight battles in locations away from the thing they are fighting over so as to reduce collateral damage.

i like the spaceport idea. with union classes and overloards everwhere. there are so many wrecked spacecraft everywhere but you never get to see them intact.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 April 2019 - 11:23 AM.