20 replies to this topic

[AedanCousland]

Could somebody please explain to me in which situations I would choose a UAC over an LBX and vice versa? Basically whilst I know the differences in operation, I am unclear where each excels.

[Dragonporn]

LBX is literally shotgun (less than /20 are rather long range ones at that) and UAC is burst fire autocannon. I guess it's up to preference. Have mechs with each, AC, LBX and UAC. All seem pretty fun, but UAC proven pretty unreliable, thing is: if RNGsus favors you, UAC can wreck faces real hard, harder than any other ballistic... or you could spend half of the mach jammed after every other shot. Your call.

On specific variants, "bigger" ones are usually used for CQC brawling and "small" ones can be used for sniping pretty successfully, IF you have tonnage to boat, that is...

[Cloves]

IS UAC20 -example Marauder BH runs with 1 uac20 and pulse lasers. Brawler, hot as hell, little sustain, beat folks up till you jam, then move to cover. Think of it as a short range peeker.

IS UAC5 -example Mauler 90 runs with 4 uac5s huge range, long stare time supression fire. Who cares if one jams, you are limited by heat and the need to blink before your eyeballs dry out.

IS LBX20- cause regular AC20 has ghost heat. Make your boom hammer moreso.

IS LBX10- cause roughnecks want to be a Mini Atlas. Pair with srm/mrm for da giant cloud of damage when you can't hit that light, or cannot be bothered to find the open ST on that other guy, just twist and shoot.

IS LBX2 cause it's got a ridiculous range, and two pellets don't have much spread. Stagger 3 and you have god's own machinegun.

IS UAC2, I think folks use 3 of these to fake a GAU-8...

No idea why anyone would use LBX5.


basically, the larger the number, the shorter the range and lower the rate of fire. LBX are more heat efficient and do more damage to armorless targets, but are worse at cracking heavy armor because they hit more than one component or can even miss with some pellets. UAC can jam, so you need to add another weapon system in tandem, but this could be just more of the same. So at close-point blank range, where all the pellets of a LBX20 or UAC20 can hit the same location, they can do nasty things, the 10s are more in the 500 range which pairs with MRMs, then 5s are long range like large lasers or ERLL, then 2s are in the Goose/PPC range, but that far away, will spread all over their targets, so it's mostly supressive, but the rate of fire is so high at this point, they can blind and panic their targets. it's also a sliding scale between alpha and DPS- you use alpha to poke or twist, DPS requires staring, but can melt folks.

Edited by Cloves, 26 May 2018 - 06:33 PM.

[AedanCousland]

I have a Mech with a Rail Gun, and rail guns are brilliant weapons, but entirely situational, a situation that many maps simply do not lend themselves to. So I'm wondering if UAC/LBX offers more flexibility?

[Cloves]

if you have a handle on the charge up mechanic, Goose are very good, mostly cause they fire a very fast round for great damage at practically no heat. The AC all also have their niches, but no one AC is going to cover every situation. You may need to find your preferred engagement distance and style, an let that dictate your weapon. All ACs will run hotter than Goose, but at least they don't explode.

If you are not comfortable with the rate of fire, try a AC5, they will shoot fast and far and frequently, and should fit as a direct replacement in any goose build, take up the extra space with heatsinks and maybe even more ammo

A great cheap starter mech is a Hunchback 4g with it's AC20. It's like you are flinging bowling balls at folks, the round is slow and short ranged. Most maps have more than enough cover to get you inside 300m. The time between shots, you twist so they shoot the far side of your mech, hopefully the arm, then you swing back and lob another 20 at them. it also has lasers so you can shoot the legs off lights or those pesky UAVs, but at first, you will focus on the AC20.

Edited by Cloves, 26 May 2018 - 06:29 PM.

[Cloves]

also, AC are one of the few places where it's good to be an IS. Looking at how you wrote your question, you might be a clanner. if you are, basically clans use LBX, stacked on assaults, to brawl with. They rarely seem to use UAC, mostly due to ghost heat on the 20, and the facetime required on the smaller UACs. Plus their Goose is even better than IS goose and their AC all have muti pellet shots, meaning they all lack the pinpoint damage.

[CFC Conky]

Hello again Aedan,

Shotguns are most effective against components that have had their armor stripped. They make for good brawling weapons but you'll want to have other weapons that are better at stripping armor, like lasers, srms or autocannons.

Regular IS autocannons fire one round so the damage goes to one spot which can be very effective. They also don't jam so they are good weapons to use while you are learning the finer points of the game. Clan regular ACs fire multiple pellets and don't jam but very few players use them because they are heavier than UACs

UACs have the potential for doing twice the damage per firing cycle, at the risk of jamming. Most experienced players will take a UAC over a regular AC, and mitigate the jamming risk through positioning. You'll see a lot of builds using multiple UAC10s or UAC5s.

The 'meta' for ballistic mechs is usually either boating one type or a combination of UAC5s and UAC10s.

If you can keep some distance between you and the enemy, then the Gauss rifle is still a decent choice. When things get cozier, it's nice to have something that cycles faster, even if it does less damage. In any case, 10-class autocannons are a good compromise between range, heat and cooldown with UACs being hottest, followed by regular ACs, then shotguns.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 26 May 2018 - 06:57 PM.

[AedanCousland]

Cloves, on 26 May 2018 - 06:17 PM, said:

if you have a handle on the charge up mechanic, Goose are very good, mostly cause they fire a very fast round for great damage at practically no heat. The AC all also have their niches, but no one AC is going to cover every situation. You may need to find your preferred engagement distance and style, an let that dictate your weapon. All ACs will run hotter than Goose, but at least they don't explode.

If you are not comfortable with the rate of fire, try a AC5, they will shoot fast and far and frequently, and should fit as a direct replacement in any goose build, take up the extra space with heatsinks and maybe even more ammo

A great cheap starter mech is a Hunchback 4g with it's AC20. It's like you are flinging bowling balls at folks, the round is slow and short ranged. Most maps have more than enough cover to get you inside 300m. The time between shots, you twist so they shoot the far side of your mech, hopefully the arm, then you swing back and lob another 20 at them. it also has lasers so you can shoot the legs off lights or those pesky UAVs, but at first, you will focus on the AC20.

It's not the charge up, like I said, they perform incredibly well. It's the charge up in and of itself that's the issue. You need good line of sight and distance to be able to charge up before they duck back into cover, and maps like the city maps simply don't afford that. In urban maps I'm losing a significant chunk of my firepower.

[BTGbullseye]

Cloves, on 26 May 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

Plus their Goose is even better than IS goose

Nope. Same stats, except Clan Gauss weighs 3t less, has way less health, (almost any crit will kill it, and the component it's in) and takes up 1 fewer slots.

[Cloves]

BTGbullseye, on 27 May 2018 - 02:55 AM, said:

Nope. Same stats, except Clan Gauss weighs 3t less, has way less health, (almost any crit will kill it, and the component it's in) and takes up 1 fewer slots.

Sorry, this is what I meant by “better”.

Still I would use the clan goose before is goose. The only ac I use on clans are on hunchback (which mainly only gets used on ac events) or mc2 doing the scorch build. The goose in my mind pairs well with long range hot ppfl like ppc, or one of the scariest goose users was a 2 goose hunchback on tourmaline that was cleaning up at the end of a match, that guy could not miss, took out the last 3 of my team and I was in a moving locust when he erased me.

Edited by Cloves, 27 May 2018 - 03:59 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Gauss is powerful if you have good aim, and don't need to DPS. It is the second worst for DPS. (and it only beats the AC2 if you manage to fire exactly perfectly on the timing for the charge up)

2x Gauss is only 30 damage per shot at 6 DPS total. A single RAC2 is more DPS.

[Cloves]

AedanCousland, on 27 May 2018 - 02:27 AM, said:

It's not the charge up, like I said, they perform incredibly well. It's the charge up in and of itself that's the issue. You need good line of sight and distance to be able to charge up before they duck back into cover, and maps like the city maps simply don't afford that. In urban maps I'm losing a significant chunk of my firepower.

.

Have you tried charging before peeking? Just because you started charging, does not mean you have to fire, you can always not discharge if you don’t have a shot. Executing a shot in the open is easier than one while moving and shooting at a moving target, that’s where the skill comes in. Some folks can do it. Meta has guys in assaults with 2 heavy goose doing it in brawls. The ISAC5 has a very similar (but not quite as good) projectile speed paired with a very long (but still not as good) range, and does half the damage with a better than 2x refire when you consider the charge mechanism. It will run a little hotter, but takes less space and weight, so you should be able to get another double heat sink and you get 30 vs 10 rounds per ton if I recall correctly. This swap will, in my mind, retain most of your goose reflexes for making the shot, and be better in close quarters (but is no means a brawling weapon, more like a battle rifle compared to a sniper rifle)

[Dragonporn]

Taking look at comp MWO players, I don't think there's any point even in discussing DPS. Game is entirely built on boating and alpha-striking. More damage you deliver in one salvo and less facetime you have to twist, better will you perform, simple as that. Any weapons that require facetime (like RACs) of course can be effective at some degree, but still no where near systems which deliver heavy payload in one go.

Gauss is very good weapon, while dual-heavy ones are legitimately overpowered. 50 pinpoint damage can destroy components or outright kill some mechs if hit the right spot. It's great both for brawling and long range sniping. But may require some backups to compensate long cooldown. There's also a trick to hold charge indefinitely, and I think most "high skill" players are abusing it just right.

LBX has spread over long distance, but up close and especially with spread reduction nodes, you can hit very-very accurately and really amazing at both, destroying armor and components. It isn't sandblast weapon like MRMs are f.e., if you hold the right distance and aim well. It's literally ice-cold AC with much better velocity.

[Cloves]

Dragonporn, on 27 May 2018 - 04:45 AM, said:

Taking look at comp MWO players, I don't think there's any point even in discussing DPS. Game is entirely built on boating and alpha-striking. More damage you deliver in one salvo and less facetime you have to twist, better will you perform, simple as that. Any weapons that require facetime (like RACs) of course can be effective at some degree, but still no where near systems which deliver heavy payload in one go.

Gauss is very good weapon, while dual-heavy ones are legitimately overpowered. 50 pinpoint damage can destroy components or outright kill some mechs if hit the right spot. It's great both for brawling and long range sniping. But may require some backups to compensate long cooldown. There's also a trick to hold charge indefinitely, and I think most "high skill" players are abusing it just right.

LBX has spread over long distance, but up close and especially with spread reduction nodes, you can hit very-very accurately and really amazing at both, destroying armor and components. It isn't sandblast weapon like MRMs are f.e., if you hold the right distance and aim well. It's literally ice-cold AC with much better velocity.

I agree with all of your statements, but at the new player level or at the “I will never be that good” that I seem to be at, refire rate can allow someone to recover from less than perfect shooting.

[Koniving]

Cloves, on 26 May 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

No idea why anyone would use LBX5.

Tonnage restriction/hardpoint restriction/slot restriction and a desire for more umph than twin LBX-2.

Took out a quad AC/5 King Crab with a twin LBX-5 Crab hero in a one versus one. It required a bit of an element of surprise, however to start the fight but in the end the King Crab lost and I still had most of my Crab intact.

Beyond those conditions though, LBX-10 is more favorable and in bulk LBX-2 is more favorable. LBX5 doesn't stack well due to its slot consumption.

[Leone]

There's also the fact the LBX uses less heat. Granted, 1 heat vs 1.66 doesn't sem like too huge of a difference, but once you look at running five AC-5s, that difference adds up, especially considering the spreading capacity of Clan acs and the bursty nature and jamming of clan uacs.

For that reason my 5 AC 5 Daishi useds lbx 5s so as to run as cool as possible and to maintain the high volume of outgoing fire as long as possible. Granted, pinpoint damage isn't quite the goal of that mech, it's more of a physiological weapon, meant to break up murderballs and unit cohesion by dint of constant fire.

~Leone.

[BTGbullseye]

Leone, on 27 May 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

it's more of a physiological weapon

Do you mean "psychological"?

[Cloves]

BTGbullseye, on 27 May 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Do you mean "psychological"?

naw, with 5 it starts to get physical.

Koniving, on 27 May 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

Tonnage restriction/hardpoint restriction/slot restriction and a desire for more umph than twin LBX-2.

Took out a quad AC/5 King Crab with a twin LBX-5 Crab hero in a one versus one. It required a bit of an element of surprise, however to start the fight but in the end the King Crab lost and I still had most of my Crab intact.

Beyond those conditions though, LBX-10 is more favorable and in bulk LBX-2 is more favorable. LBX5 doesn't stack well due to its slot consumption.

Thanks, had not thought of that, still like my ac5 tho..

[BTGbullseye]

Cloves, on 27 May 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

naw, with 5 it starts to get physical.

I bet my dual HGauss will kill it fairly easy... (this is not a request for a duel, I don't do those)

[Koniving]

Cloves, on 27 May 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

Thanks, had not thought of that, still like my ac5 tho..

Most will. LBX-5 won't shine for the most part if not for two exceptions:
1) Double crit damage... Each "ball" does 2 damage instead of 1 to critical components.

This is important because 15% of all damage dealt to components get put in as extra bonus damage to structure, too. So while an AC/5 could go from 5 damage to 5.75 to a maximum of 7.25... an LBX-5 could go from 5 to anywhere up to 9.5 damage...and is more likely to get the higher ends than an AC/5.

2) For the IS only... triple range. Most weapons fizzle out to 0 damage at 2 times stated range. IS LBX fizzles out to 0 at 3x stated range, where at 2x stated range it does half damage.

Those 2 points are true of all IS LBX (and the first point is true of all LBX in MWO currently).

Edited by Koniving, 27 May 2018 - 12:24 PM.