283 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

So I was just curious if anyone besides me is really upset they are planning to lengthen the barrel on the ST torso mounts, which will increase the side torso hitboxs and which will indirectly nerf the Blood Asp perhaps substantially.

I don't know how anyone else feels but I added the Reinforcement Package and Hero to my purchase specifically because I had a chance to try out the Standard Pack mechs prior to my purchase. I really liked the way PGI proactively adjusted the ST mount lengths to reduce their profile thus improving the hit boxes. I can't say for sure that this was their intent when they shortened them but their intent or not, it gave us a released mech that was very good, good enough for me to add an additional $35 to my purchase.

Now they apparently are going to extend the hit boxes because alot of people were upset that the mech didn't match the concept art and I guess prefer looking cool to actual in game performance. I unfortunately don't and will probably pursue a refund for the Reinforcement Add on and Hero if the change has significant adverse effect on the performance of the Blood Asp.

Anyone aside from me feel it is kind of bait and switch to release a mech with the current in game model and after reviews have went out and people have made purchasing decisions, then decide to change the model which will result in a net nerf to the performance of the mech?

Note: I know there are alot of people pleased with the changes or else this issue wouldn't have came up so you don't have answer back that your pleased or happy about the change. I am more curious about if I am the only one really upset at the incoming nerf/geometry change on the Blood Asp.

[Eisenhorne]

They will not give out refunds for post-release nerfs.

[CK16]

Nope, I am happy with the changes...along with the majority of the community sorry bud....it went be that bad though really relax.

No offense most players still aim center mass, not at barrels like that. The only time that sort of geometry is bad is when its larger bill boards like the TBR missiles racks. From the front the gun pods are still narrow targets to hit, specially with projectile weapons.

[Antares102]

If PGI really messes up the Blood Asp hitboxes without compensation (=armor/structure quirks) and no refund option then this is a new low for their "wanna buy a mech pack" way of making money.

Eisenhorne, on 29 May 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

They will not give out refunds for post-release nerfs.

True, but this nerf is not due to over-performance but purely to satisfy the hunger for aesthetics of the tweet-Russ crowd.

Edited by Antares102, 29 May 2018 - 12:38 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

I pre-ordered the Ultimate pack.

I nearly cancelled when the asymmetrical mounts were shown.

I was (and still am) happy with the truncated, snug-fit mounts.

I will be displeased if they go ahead with the proposed nerf.

I saw more threads pre-release complaining about the model than post-release, so I question anyone claiming "the majority of the community" are happy about the proposed fix. The proposed fix that has not been officially announced. The proposed fix that makes the 'mech undeniably worse than the version I and others already paid for.

Fool my once, PGI, shame on me. Fools me twice, [redacted].

[Antares102]

CK16, on 29 May 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

No offense most players still aim center mass, not at barrels like that. The only time that sort of geometry is bad is when its larger bill boards like the TBR missiles racks. From the front the gun pods are still narrow targets to hit, specially with projectile weapons.

Larger pods will make torso twisting less effective such that the arms absorb less damage.
Not everybody stares at the enemy. I mean I built my BAS-A with a left shield arm exactly for the reason to twist after shooting.

Edited by Antares102, 29 May 2018 - 12:42 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Antares102, on 29 May 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

If PGI really messes up the Blood Asp hitboxes without compensation (=armor/structure quirks) and no refund option then this is a new low for their "wanna buy a mech pack" way of making money.

PGI already stopped showing the finished model in the mechlab along with the quirks list. They no longer show proper scale comparisons to other 'mechs. They no longer have a video to show off the walking animations or cockpit.

I honestly expect the next 'mech (Flea?) to have a countdown with *maybe* some action shot wallpapers, a quirk list and nothing else.

[MechaBattler]

I'll just say it's not intentionally a bait and switch. It's something a segment of the community wanted. And PGI chose to listen. But it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Jay Leon Hart]

MechaBattler, on 29 May 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

I'll just say it's not intentionally a bait and switch. It's something a segment of the community wanted. And PGI chose to listen. But it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

But they didn't announce it, like they did with the Nightstar changes.

They *still* haven't announced it.

It's all very shady and poor business practice.

I'll just wait for the threads created by people who are happy and oblivious to the impending doom. Then we'll see if I'm in the minority or not.

[FupDup]

People are seriously over-exaggerating the impact this will have.



It's pretty hard to miss this kind of target when the model has blank gray borders around the CT to make it super obvious where you need to shoot. Longer shoulder cannons won't change this.

[Antares102]

@OP
What you forgot to mention is that people who are in for the aesthetics are the first to shelf a mech after a few games because they have plenty of other aesthetic mechs to play or play not at all after their "aesthetic" mech got boring.
People who buy mechs for their (suspected) performance will play that mech many many games thus keeping the active player base alive.

MechaBattler, on 29 May 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

I'll just say it's not intentionally a bait and switch. It's something a segment of the community wanted. And PGI chose to listen. But it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If they are aware of what the change means to performance and add a +10 armor quirk to the side torsos everything is fine.
If they dont do it they once more show that they have no idea about this game and how changes impact performance of mechs.

Edited by Antares102, 29 May 2018 - 01:00 PM.

[MechaBattler]

My Uziel would give it's left you know what for armor quirks to it's massive side torsos. You be lucky you get some structure to compensate. lol

I see your point Jay. They should announce it. If only to be sure its what the majority of people want.

[Antares102]

FupDup, on 29 May 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

People are seriously over-exaggerating the impact this will have.



It's pretty hard to miss this kind of target when the model has blank gray borders around the CT to make it super obvious where you need to shoot. Longer shoulder cannons won't change this.

Oh for the love of god... not EVERBODY stares down at enemy mechs when fighting and/or after alphaing.
SOME of us do the magical thing of torso twisting, that keeps you alive for much longer.
With enlaged pods the BAS might have the side torso profile of a MAD-IIC which means if you show the side torso to semi-competent enemy he will quickly take down one of your side torsos.

Edited by Antares102, 29 May 2018 - 01:00 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FupDup, on 29 May 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

It's pretty hard to miss this kind of target when the model has blank gray borders around the CT to make it super obvious where you need to shoot. Longer shoulder cannons won't change this.

But higher shoulder cannons will, especially for peaking/poking/hill humping vs full exposure.

[FupDup]

Antares102, on 29 May 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

Oh for the love of god... not EVERBODY stares down at enemy mechs when fighting and/or after alphaing.
SOME of us do the magical thing of torso twisting, that keeps you alive for much longer.
With enlaged pods the BAS might have the side torso profile of a MAD-IIC which means if you show the side torso to semi-competent enemy he will quickly take down one of your side torsos.

You're gonna have to turn towards your foe eventually. Some crafty people wait for that to happen before they unload.

From the side view the arm already can't fully hide the side torso pods since they extend much higher than the shoulder.

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 May 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:

But higher shoulder cannons will, especially for peaking/poking/hill humping vs full exposure.

The vertical height of the cannons is getting reduced, it's the horizontal length that's being increased. Having cannons far above the cockpit doesn't offer much advantage since they get exposed before you can even see people (when humping hills).

[Antares102]

FupDup, on 29 May 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

You're gonna have to turn towards your foe eventually. Some crafty people wait for that to happen before they unload.

Yes they can do that but not if I alpha, twist and vanish behind a building.
Furthermore not every situation is 1vs1 like where you can wait 3-5 sec for the opponent to twist back and fire at his exposed CT. Most situations mean the attacker has to retreat as well and twisting just reduces the window of opportunity for him in most... read MOST.. situations but obviously not all.

Twisting with good shield arms protecting your (side) torso undenyable makes you live longer.
You cannot argue with that. And again, this means ON AVERAGE and not in every situation possible.

Edited by Antares102, 29 May 2018 - 01:10 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FupDup, on 29 May 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

The vertical height of the cannons is getting reduced, it's the horizontal length that's being increased. Having cannons far above the cockpit doesn't offer much advantage since they get exposed before you can even see people (when humping hills).

Unless there is another mock-up floating around (which also hasn't been officially announced), then you're wrong.


Taller *and* longer

[CK16]

Antares102, on 29 May 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

Larger pods will make torso twisting less effective such that the arms absorb less damage.
Not everybody stares at the enemy. I mean I built my BAS-A with a left shield arm exactly for the reason to twist after shooting.

Marauder wiggle is better then shielding imo for most chicken walkers.

[Antares102]

CK16, on 29 May 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

Marauder wiggle is better then shielding imo for most chicken walkers.

Marauders just like Stalkers are stare-at-your-enemy mechs.
When playing my MAD-IIC I never twist and just stare at my opponent since in this situation I have to lowest profile.
Probably wiggle a little bit just as you say to spread damage between all torsos.

[FupDup]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 May 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

Unless there is another mock-up floating around (which also hasn't been officially announced), then you're wrong.

-pic-

Taller *and* longer

I had forgotten exactly how that comparison looked, it's been a while. I was thinking of the concept art in the middle for what they planned, looks like they're combining the worst of both worlds.

Still, you're the only one who's brought up the height issue (everybody else focuses purely on length).