78 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Even in the face of the obvious you plaintively deny. That was all I wanted to see.

Also what's a good ideal range for engagement in this game? 600M? how long does it stay that way?

At what point does it devolve to around 300 meter engagements? Most the game or only 1/8th?

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 30 May 2018 - 02:04 AM, said:

by lore ...in this sense only IS Mechs in Solaris
is a pure IS Arena world and Clans not play in it...this Guys fight to conquerd the IS..and captured Clanmechs going not to Solaris ...more a Break thats PGI let Clanmechs in it and not say IS only or Clan only (and for Clans own Arenas with own rules)

If only players could run their own little invite leagues with control over all options, mechs, weapons etc. Blood Bowl 2 does it very well.

[LordBraxton]

In teamplay, burst damage is king. So clans win.

In 1v1, DPS is king, so IS wins.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 May 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

Jihad & Dark Age says you're wrong. Clans were a mistake, albeit a popular one.

Clans, as they were introduced to the setting, were a mistake, and Jordan Wiseman is on record as saying such. He's flat out said he'd never have introduced them the way he did if he'd known things would go the way they did in the early 90's.

This is literally, a 25 year long debate, because of how the clans [and the players who pick them] have run roughshod over Battletech in general.

You see, the "rules" for playing clans, were never really instituted properly. From a tabletop perspective, it was assumed that clanner players would follow clan honor systems, which was the original balancing mechanic.

Of course, players... didn't want that, and typical, TRUE tactics played out, focused fire, ect. so you had massive imbalanced clan tech, in the hands of players who were bound and determined to utilize that power to it's fullest extent.

It wasn't about playing the role of a clanner, it was about winning the game.

Ever since that era, around the early 90's, attempts have been made to balance this tech, new IS tech introduced, new clan tech introduced, new era's, and essentially a reboot in the form of dark age ect...

Clan Tech, was built around the idea of Zell as a balancing mechanic... and it was never utilized outside of rp campaigns... and that, is why we have the problems we have today... because 25 years ago, an idea was hatched, that didn't pan out properly, and we're still making the same mistakes.

[MrXanthios]

Yes and in qp clan is outrageously advantaged under every aspect.

[Jackal Noble]

MrXanthios, on 30 May 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

Yes and in qp clan is outrageously advantaged under every aspect.

Shows how much you actually know about this game, how much you actually play, or both.

[Jackal Noble]

There is one advantage and it is a slim/marginal one. It's range. Every Clan mech can utilize a flat bar range advantage. Here's the kicker; many IS mechs can actually come pretty close to meeting that.
In select cases is damage output better than DPS. Most of the time DPS wins out. Wonder where the DPS primarily resides?

Further as I alluded to earlier range of engagement is typically sub 5-600 m, in quickplay and faction, save Boreal. Who has the advantage?

Assaults - Anni > Faf>Dire> MKII> Kdk = KC > Clops> Bmaster > Basp > MadIIC > Stalker > Highlander > HGNIIC >

Heavies - Whammer / Mad > Ngyr > RGH > Hbr / EBJ > BLK > LBK > Qdraw > Summoner > Roflman > Tbolt > Timber > Mdog > ......................................Novacat

Mediums - Bushwacker > Stormcrow > Assassin > HbkIIC/Huntsman > ACW > BJ .....................................Uzi/Blanner

Lights - Wolfhound > PIR > Jav > Cheetah/Lynx > Com > Urbs > Adder > JRIIC > Kfox > Fstarter ............................Cougar.

[Y E O N N E]

I am 100% sure I mentioned this before, but it's almost like having factions be good at different things that are not accounted for in the level and game mode design is a terrible idea.

Also, when did the DWF start ranking higher than the MCII?

[Jackal Noble]

Man, it just feels better now. Also it just has an edge in terms of raw damage output compared to the MKII.

[LordBraxton]

Your tier list is wayyyyy off buddy

Best assaults are MC2 and BAS

Best heavy is HBR

Bushie is best Medium tho

[FupDup]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 May 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

Jihad & Dark Age says you're wrong. Clans were a mistake, albeit a popular one.

Just want to point out here that IS tech never got buffed or patched in TT to equal the Clans. They got a few unique toys like Plasma Rifle and TSEMP that the Clans don't have a counterpart of, but any item that does have a Clan counterpart (the majority of the arsenal) is always inferior regardless of era. For example, the IS never builds any PPC that can equal the Clan ERPPC. IS ERML never equals the Clan ERML. Etc.

The IS might sidestep the issue somewhat by just building Clan tech instead of IS tech, but that's not the same as IS tech being equal to Clan tech.

But yes, in MWO the factions should be balanced via buffing or nerfing or whatever.

Edited by FupDup, 30 May 2018 - 07:16 PM.

[BrunoSSace]

Hello Mr Jackelbeast, mate. How in gravy hell do you expect a Spirt Bear to beat an Annihalator? The Annihalor boats more armor and can nearly pack the same firepower and a lot lower speed. Speed means jack shizt when I comes down to a dps race.

The only way I can see around it is if you remove the so call mechs from the ladders. Tho that doesn't seem fair. Is mechs rock at brawling not so much at anything else.

I understand you are frustrated. I don't play the mode since its all cookie cutter builds and mechs atm. Pluss at my time zone I can never get a match. I can see PGI in their wisdom nerfing so called mechs, even tho this will kill them in QP.

My 5cents this is a hard problem to fix and what every they decided will be seen as being wrong. Bruno/

[Jackal Noble]

LordBraxton, on 30 May 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

Your tier list is wayyyyy off buddy

Best assaults are MC2 and BAS

Best heavy is HBR

Bushie is best Medium tho

Based off overall viability man and variety of good builds the mech can bring to the table.
MKII has 2 that stand out above the rest - the DS hero Gauss Vomit and the UAC5/UAC10 combo.
BASP has some niche things, but it's best are Gauss + 6 ERmeds, or the LB40 med/medpulse build. both with ECM.
Anni despite the recent dock in armor, is still king with Faf right next to it. They both bring equal firepower, better dps with better durability.
Anni - 4-5 LB10X, HGauss + med pulse/med lasers, UAC5/UAC10 face wrecker, Hex AC2/LB2X 1X, 5-6 AC5 are all very good.
Faf - Hgauss vomit, 2LB10x + 2RAC2 and lasers, Quad LB10, and surprisingly tough despite early impressions.
The major differentiator being with all these heavy hitters is the IS can put out and take it, whereas their Clan brethren don't take abuse as well.

As far as heavies go - the HBR does one thing fairly outstanding that has given it's more recent meta status due to nuetech, and that's the HLarge laser paired with some Ermeds. Aside from that it makes a good quad ERLL sniper. Neither build is good for Solaris. The Hlarge vomit build is good as long as you have friendlies around to let you go back to your hole and hide.
vs.
Whammy - Duel Gauss 4 ER meds, quad UAC5, Dual AC10 and lasers, heck even a funky RAC2 build is viable, all on a venerable chassis.
MAD - the thing is just a tank.

[Y E O N N E]

LordBraxton, on 30 May 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

Your tier list is wayyyyy off buddy

Best assaults are MC2 and BAS

Best heavy is HBR

Bushie is best Medium tho

BAS is inferior to the MCII and the ANH, full-stop.

HBR and WHM/GHR trade blows. Can't really make the call, it's all about who got the first shot in.

[MrXanthios]

JackalBeast, on 30 May 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Shows how much you actually know about this game, how much you actually play, or both.

Looking at that chart you made of what's best in each class, I wonder how much you know.

[Monkey Lover]

When most divs match IS assaults to clans mediums I would hope IS would be on top.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

If you play quickplay only exposing yourself to single enemies or small groups at a time IS ends up feeling better than Clan too. Playing an Annihilator designed to find and focus each of the enemy's assault and heavy mechs with overwhelming firepower and armor has worked out well for me.

From my days playing Atlases, and old Executioner brawlers before they were nerfed into uselessness, I learned a lot about choosing my lanes of approach and using cover that closes firing lanes to most enemies but has an open firing lane between my targets and I. I remember my times of going off and killing half a team with solo kills. I could walk off from my team on flanking runs, lure in light mechs thinking I'm an idiot who got himself cut off, only to delete them with SPLs, then using LPL to shoot heavies in the back and get them to run over to me thinking I'd be an easy kill medium/light only for them to find they're heavily outmatched when they turn the corner and their team has gone on to push without him.

Basically I just learned positioning enough that I don't find much need for the higher speed of Clan mechs and prefer the higher armor, precision, and often times DPS.

[Black Ivan]

Not surprising. The Quirk advantage of IS Mechs and PGIs fault of using them as mere bandaids comes out better in 1vs1

[The Lighthouse]

I mean, it is not like Solaris mode is alive.

Just like CW, we can all pretend it does not exist.

[clop1000]

Is it worth it - to strip all the back armor and put in on the front? (CT,LT,RT)