49 replies to this topic

[Manthony Higgs]

Yo dawg, here's yo problem. Da Confederation aint just Space China, it's Space Everything wit a strong Chinese overtone, dig? Cultures blend so much in Battletech that I doubt a tru Capellan homedawg would know the difference between dat Dao and one o dem katanas, let alone some brudda from Space Everything with French overtones or Space Everything with Germanic overtones, dig?

[Tennex]

Elbola Ierocis, on 24 July 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

It's okay to not know everything about your own nations history. Especially one as vast as China's but don't get offended when you accuse someone else of screwing up something that was not a screw up. (dao..still chinese sword)

dude. This is so culturally insensitive. You people are grasping at straws... my parents would spit at the computer if they saw the liao emblem

http://media.tumblr....qgyn1r4jkin.gif

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 24 July 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'm not trying to "show off" what I know. to be honest. I am doing this because i find it offensive. I am chinese personally and and also interested in a lot of japanese culture. Although people like me might be a minority, it is really clear the difference between the two... and i want this game to succeed. So wouldn't it be best if there wasn't anything that offended either side in the issue?

only if the "offending issue" was actually there... but aside from the 80 posts explaiing the various Daos, and the fact that even the Liao is not pureblood Chinese (don't see many green eyed nor auburn haired Chinese.... which if one looks up the description of Max Liao's daughters, one will find.....), ALL Battletech cutures arre somewhat bastardized, and romanticized anyhow being, 0h, 1000 years and god knows how many major wars in the future... but hey, what do we Gwai Lo know? WE aren't of the Middle Kingdom, after all.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 24 July 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

dude. This is so culturally insensitive. You people are grasping at straws... my parents would spit at the computer if they saw the liao emblem

http://media.tumblr....qgyn1r4jkin.gif

So the realissue is that your narrow racial profile dopes not accept that cultures merge. Wonderful. Sounds like a YOU problem. Especially since if you actually read ANY Battletech literature they comment on how likely it is in the Confederation (or the combine or other place) to meet people with an ethnic Chinese (or Japanese or Swedish) name, that is totally NOT of that blood stock. And of course, that is ASIDE form the fact that a Dao s a Dao (using your logic I would point out if it were a japanese sword it would have to be a wakazashi, since it is FAR too short for a katana.)

In other words, if you want to go all PC police, that is up to you, but you are wrong, have nbeen demonstrated to be so, both form the actual historical perspective AND the fictional game universe (where OMG!!! Not everyone strictly marries and breeds with their own root stock! The villainy!)

Since you are making post after post about it, you bely your own words, or are a troll.

Either way, in the words of the poet....

WHATEVER

[Rhyshaelkan]

Fictional Future History is serious business!! *dies*

[Tennex]

wow i did not know i was stepping on a vein... i'm sorry to break it to you that this fictional world isn't as perfect as you thought it was.

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

In other words, if you want to go all PC police, that is up to you, but you are wrong, have nbeen demonstrated to be so, both form the actual historical perspective AND the fictional game universe (where OMG!!! Not everyone strictly marries and breeds with their own root stock! The villainy!)

lol nobody said anything about blood. whats with all the straw mans today. This is about culture lol this is not about blood this is not about russia.
http://mwomercs.com/game/factions
I mean why even have two distinct houses based on two distinct asian cultures if they are going to "merge". Kurita and Liao are clearly culturally distinctive, chinese is not even a dominant language in draconis combine and vice versa.

Though judging by the hilt of the sword its seems like piranha games paid some attention to detail.

[Manthony Higgs]

I'm not sure if you know what Strawman means.

[Tennex]

Manthony Higgs, on 24 July 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I'm not sure if you know what Strawman means.

i'm sure you do since you keep using it lol. it means ur putting words in my mouth

[Manthony Higgs]

DUNCAN FISHER HERE LIVE BRINGING YOU AN EDUCATIONAL HOLOVID: THE STRAWMAN ARGUMENT!
The Strawman argument is as follows: A debater constructs a weakened or sometimes unrecognizable form of another's argument, and by defeating that, acts as if he defeated the real thing.
What you're doing, insisting that we're insisting about Russian influences while ignoring our other points is pretty much textbook Strawman behavior.

[Tennex]

lol alright im getting trolled. do you not see how hypocritical this is? you are giogn to strawman me and for pointing it out i am committing a straw man?

This one even has a setup

Elbola Ierocis, on 24 July 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What's the name of their intel agency again?

again i ask you what russian influences has to to in an argument about the difference between japanese and chinese culture and video game lore based off of this. Notice i am addressing one of the arguments made

[Manthony Higgs]

Tennex, on 24 July 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

again i ask you what russian influences has to to in an argument about the difference between japanese and chinese culture and video game lore based off of this. Notice i am addressing one of the arguments made

The debate is not just about China/japan. If you read my earlier posts, then you wold have learned that cultures (not Liao and Kurita themselves, as you seem to believe, but the actual cultures) have seen some heavy intermingling in-universe. This, combined with the drastic information/technology loss over the centuries since the fall of the Star Legue, points towards such an image not being out of place within the Battletech universe.

This of course, assumes the sword actually is a katana/wakizashi, and not some form of Dao (which there are countless variants of, so it's a statistical improbability that at some point in the past/future, a miniature Miao Dao hasn't been created/designed).

[Tennex]

Lol there's no point arguing anything like this on the forums. Its pretty much minority loss. To continue on i would simply be repeating the arguments i have made, which have not been heard.

I remember there would be these posts on the League of Legends forums about there needing to be a black champion, they would always get downvoted into oblivion.

people just have no shame when it comes to this stuff.

[Manthony Higgs]

DUNCAN FISHER HERE REPORTING LIVE THAT TENNEX HAS RESIGNED! MANTHONY HIGGS IS VICTORIOUS. BE SURE TO TUNE IN FOR THE DUNCAN FISHER AFTER HOURS SHOW FOR MY ANALYSIS OF THE FIGHT.

[Thorn Hallis]

Her Celestial Wisdom has decreed that the sword in the crest is capellean. Anyone who dares to say otherwise will be the target of severe "questioning" by the Maskirovka.

[Adridos]

Just because you found a picture of Dao on Google doesn't make it the only Dao in existance. Dao is simply Chinese sword meant to cut.

This is Dao:


This is also Dao:


This is Dao too:


Even this is a Dao:


Now, if you look closely on our symbol, you can clearly see it's not a Katana by looking at 2 basic feature Katana would never have. First it's the hilt. It's completely different than that on Katana, because Katana never has a pommel that extends to any direction, unlike the one on the picture, while this sword does and the one on Katana is straight, while this one is curved. And then there's the sentral ridge. Every Katana has the central ridge in at one thrid of the blade's width, but the one on the picture is in the exact center. Lastly, all Katanas have a Habaki, which is a blad collar, that would make us not see the central ridge close to the guard. In the picture, there is none.

Here's a picure so you can see what I'm talking about:

Edited by Adridos, 25 July 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

"Lol there's no point arguing anything like this on the forums. Its pretty much minority loss. To continue on i would simply be repeating the arguments i have made, which have not been heard."

Oh, they've been heard, as you have been screaming the race/culture card at the top of your lungs. They've simply been proven specious,the way most of these PC party rants tend to be. Your "revised history of the Dao" is about as accurate as depicting William Wallace as some poor dirt farmer.


*breaks open fortune cookie*
"孔夫子 says: "There's no cure for stupid'"

[Mchawkeye]

Quote

A "Dao" even slightly similar to a katana as in the case of the tang dao, is such a historical minority it should in no way represent the chinese culture.

I'm intrigued...aside from all the good points finding errors in your argument -and I'm sorry we don't tend to roll over and agree with people here- is it not hypocritical to be suggesting that representing a minority is wrong?
Where is it written that any house should represent by and large an entire culture?
Why can't the creators pick and choose their own influences?

As a Scotsman, should I get annoyed by The Highlanders? Highlanders are very much in the minority, nearly 70% percent of my country lives in the central belt.

But then, I'm just happy we get represented at all...

Edited by Mchawkeye, 25 July 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Romulus Stahl]

Tennex, on 24 July 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I'm not trying to "show off" what I know. to be honest. I am doing this because i find it offensive. I am chinese personally and and also interested in a lot of japanese culture. Although people like me might be a minority, it is really clear the difference between the two... and i want this game to succeed. So wouldn't it be best if there wasn't anything that offended either side in the issue?

Get a thicker skin, get off your PC horse.
Learn the origins of FASA, the guys creating the history did the best they could at the time. When the artwork that you find offensive was established FASA was small gaming company, mom and pop type shop (Jordan's uncle helped run the business), the upstairs was the paper end the downstairs was used for Pod work and shipping. There are a lot of mistakes in the a lot of the material, they didn't do it to **** you off or offend you. If you want to fix the material you will have to go back and correct the original source material. Good Luck with that.

How insensitive of me, I forgot there is some insanity in the CC.

I'll make it easy.
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=1913

Edited by Romulus Stahl, 25 July 2012 - 07:37 AM.

[Tennex]

Manthony Higgs, on 24 July 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

DUNCAN FISHER HERE REPORTING LIVE THAT TENNEX HAS RESIGNED! MANTHONY HIGGS IS VICTORIOUS. BE SURE TO TUNE IN FOR THE DUNCAN FISHER AFTER HOURS SHOW FOR MY ANALYSIS OF THE FIGHT.

lol i havent resigned. Read the edit of the original post.

Romulus Stahl, on 25 July 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

Get a thicker skin, get off your PC horse.
Learn the origins of FASA, the guys creating the history did the best they could at the time. When the artwork that you find offensive was established FASA was small gaming company, mom and pop type shop (Jordan's uncle helped run the business), the upstairs was the paper end the downstairs was used for Pod work and shipping. There are a lot of mistakes in the a lot of the material, they didn't do it to **** you off or offend you. If you want to fix the material you will have to go back and correct the original source material. Good Luck with that.

look thank you for at least acknowledging there is something up for dispute in the source material.

[Tennex]

Adridos, on 25 July 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Just because you found a picture of Dao on Google doesn't make it the only Dao in existance. Dao is simply Chinese sword meant to cut.
This is Dao:


Now, if you look closely on our symbol, you can clearly see it's not a Katana by looking at 2 basic feature Katana would never have. First it's the hilt. It's completely different than that on Katana, because Katana never has a pommel that extends to any direction, unlike the one on the picture, while this sword does and the one on Katana is straight, while this one is curved. And then there's the sentral ridge. Every Katana has the central ridge in at one thrid of the blade's width, but the one on the picture is in the exact center. Lastly, all Katanas have a Habaki, which is a blad collar, that would make us not see the central ridge close to the guard. In the picture, there is none.

I completely agree with you. A dao is anything that cuts. The modern connotation for dao is actually a kitchen knife. I have made a post mentioning the likely hood that the weapon on the emblem used is likely not a katana.

Tennex, on 24 July 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Though judging by the hilt of the sword its seems like piranha games paid some attention to detail.

Thanks for actually taking the time, to address the actual issue instead of flame

Edited by Tennex, 25 July 2012 - 08:02 AM.