831 replies to this topic

[Joshua McEvedy]

Ed Steele, on 09 June 2018 - 07:38 PM, said:

We are letting the 12v12 people win. Many of the players today were not around for 8v8 and they don't know how much better the game was when it was 8v8.

Hmmmm...I remember once upon a time when the community was demanding that PGI implement larger scale 12v12 combat because 8v8 was too limiting. So here we are demanding that 8v8 be returned because 12v12 is too big and chaotic.

LOL.

[trash compactor 3263827]

I'm in favor of 8v8 because I think the matches are too crowded. No matter how big the map is players will occupy only a small portion of it and that small portion gets crowded quick with 12 players. It doesn't matter how big the map is, the fighting takes place in the same 4 squares almost all the time. At least with smaller teams I could see being able to move around the map more without running into an enemy.

So many of the players here have never played 8v8 (myself included) so they may not know whether they like it or not. I don't know if I'd like it or not, but I want to try it. Could we perhaps get a trial run to see if we like it or not? Maybe do a special event for a week or so where it's nothing but 8v8. Boost the rewards to compensate for having less opponents, give out MC, XP, mech bays, a free mech, whatever you need to get players logged in and playing to give them a chance to try it out. I don't think a poll like this can adequately gauge whether players like 12v12 more than 8v8 if they don't have a chance to try both.

[DAEDALOS513]

AEgg, on 10 June 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'd like to see the old maps used for 4v4 or even Solaris matches, but definitely not 12v12. Most of them were too small for 8v8 already.

They would be considered brawling maps.. what's the harm in that? Cuz they aren't lrm friendly? Cuz time-to-kill is shortened? Well chalk that up to learning through adversity.. that's the best way to learn. Also, despite the new maps being so large.. the same 10 or so grids are where the battles mainly take place anyway. Bigger isn't necessarily better.. it's the layout that counts.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 10 June 2018 - 08:47 AM.

[AEgg]

DAEDALOS513, on 10 June 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

They would be considered brawling maps.. what's the harm in that? Cuz they aren't lrm friendly? Cuz time-to-kill is shortened? Well chalk that up to learning through adversity.. that's the best way to learn. Also, despite the new maps being so large.. the same 10 or so grids are where the battles mainly take place anyway. Bigger isn't necessarily better.. it's the layout that counts.

Forcing close range fights is fine (solaris city sort of does this already despite being a fairly big map). The problem is narrow passageways in and out of major parts of the map, where you're stumbling over your teammates to get anywhere, or everyone's blocking LoS to a chokepoint.

Only fighting in the same few spaces is a map design problem, that surprisingly only really seems to have been solved with Polar, which does so mostly just by being pretty much the same everywhere.

[Geminus]

12 VS 10

3 Lances vs 2 Stars

[NocturnalBeast]

Geminus, on 10 June 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

12 VS 10

3 Lances vs 2 Stars

I would love to see this, and this has been suggested since FW was a thing, but PGI has repeatedly said that uneven teams are not possible with the matchmaker and would not work with the Tier system. Currently this is only possible in private matches, since there is not matchmaker or progress meter.

[Lt_Paragor]

I would not mind if it when to 8v8 from the aspect that some of my better mechs are for brawling, but I feel like I would miss thing like the '12 man pain train' or 'murder ball'. yes those could still be done in 8v8, but it may not be as fun. Also with out map ajustments, it will not be as easy to cover as meany parts of the map at one time and survive in a game mode such as conquest( where you go and gather resources from the different points). over all I would not minde 8v8, but I might miss the 12v12 with out having to sit a long time for faction.

[el piromaniaco]

Does this mean that the Matchmaker will work faster for 8vs8 ?

[Brain Cancer]

NobleSavage, on 09 June 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

You didn't get the point. If you are in the team with more bad players, you will lose. Discussion over.

Not so. But you've gotta kill the carry before he mauls your team to death and/or you're incapable of chewing through the rest of the trash before he does the same.

The fewer randoms I have to worry about/my enemy potential carrier has to hide behind before I can line up the real problem in my sights, the easier it is to carry. I'm not a Proton, but I can swing 4,5,6 kills in a match. If I have fewer people able to shoot me doing it, then great. I can still get those kills, and that means the other seven people on the team only have 4,3,2 kills to make instead of 8,7,6....and even bad players can pick up the "spares".

Heck, the real pros we see are compensating for huge numbers of bad players when they carry- and they win. I'm not that good, I can't compensate for most of a 12-man's worth of failure...but I'm more likely to be able to do it for eight, or at least make sure the enemy carrier isn't in any condition to finish the job before I get dropped. It's not always about who has more bad players, but who loses their good players first. I mean, if you see a world-champ level player on the red side and he gets taken out by a freak Gauss headshot, don't you think you've really improved your odds?

ceesje, on 10 June 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

Seen it done it reversed it back to 12 - 12.
MWO History repeating it self leave things alone .

Once the game went to 12v12, it never went back to 8v8.

Well, except for what supposedly the highest form of play, the comp queue where apparently 12v12 is too much.

Geminus, on 10 June 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

12 VS 10

3 Lances vs 2 Stars

That would imply Paul can't 1:1 balance IS to Clan.

This is not acceptable to PGI.

el piromaniaco, on 10 June 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

Does this mean that the Matchmaker will work faster for 8vs8 ?

Yes it would, because math. It takes less time to find 16 players than 24.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 10 June 2018 - 05:29 PM.

[Mechteric]

8v8 means less likely to have more guns in your face at once, thus increasing TTK, which is a good thing for this game.

[C337Skymaster]

https://youtu.be/EghFLrpkURg

The above link is a scouting match I played the other day which had an Enemy disconnect. This problem exists at the 4v4 level, not just the 12v12 level, and will not go away at the 8v8 level. That said, the idea of having all the different levels represented is very interesting, and will certainly push larger groups into faction play.

Personally, though, I'm waiting for 8-way, or even 16-way free-for-all Solaris Matches, a la MW4.

[Efeljay]

Greetings!

First, thank you for considering the players feedback.

I would have say say that if possible, both 8v8 and 12v12 depending on the map/mode.

Might be at this point the route to make the most players happy.

Thanks!

[NimoStar]

Paul Inouye, on 06 June 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

1) Enter queue as group of 10.
2) System decides to switch to 8v8.
3) Might as well paint the livingroom while waiting.

Make group queuing limited to 8. There, fixed it.

If all is switched to 8v8 that will happen anyways, so what dfo you lose alllowing 12v12 as it has always been when there are enough players?

[JuIius]

As long as you add more "things" like Solaris "§$%/", WHY you start for such a poll?

If there are not enough people playing this Game you should think about why, and dont do some useless BS.

Some ppl are tired of reading patchnotes giving nothing than a slap in the face again and again.... More fun playing other stuff.

[Barkem Squirrel]

maybe.

1. I loved 8v8 on the old frozen city and forest colony. (they were smaller maps.)
2. These larger maps will force a scouting role.
3. Some people think less damage, but there are less mechs to do damage. So maybe the same about of damage, just less assists, kmdd's and killing blows.
4. There are more options to play in the game now. PUG drops, group drops, Private lobbies, Solaris, Faction play 12v12 and faction play scouting 4v4. When we last had 8v8 there was no faction play or any thing else. Hell we even had smaller groups in one bucket. There are 6 buckets now.
5. I like the challenge of 12 on 12 when it came out and even now.
6. This may allow for ammo dependent mechs to carry a bit less ammo, maybe. Still less targets, but also less teammates to do the damage.
7. I can remember one very good player could severely affect the game play.
8. Some of the larger maps on conquest will be more of a running battle and disengagements.
9. I do not think having 8v8 and 12v12 pug or group drops is viable making 8 buckets game play types.

[Nema Nabojiv]

can we have 8v8 along with 12, same Qs, just depending on current population?

[Koniving]

Why not have 8 vs 8 main quickplay (as this would make it quicker), 12 vs 12 group play, 12 or 8 competition (don't really care here), 12 vs 12 faction?

Keeps everyone mostly happy, considering. After all faction play and competition gurus need a place to practice with friends.

Meanwhile solo players just wanna play without having to wait and having fewer enemies means that each player feels more significant in the flow of battle. Players, especially newer ones, can make mistakes and recover from them without being utterly obliterated the second they turn a corner as the average luck would have only 4 to 8 enemies around the corner instead of 6 to 12.

[Klappspaten]

Ghawblin, on 11 June 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

12v12 during peak times.
8v8 any other time.

I like 12v12, and I would also like 8v8.

Or simply depending on the map or the amount of players online. Other games have context based game sizes too.

[Paul Inouye]

Gonna throw a wrench in here to see what you guys think of this. Kinda related...

Dropping support for groups of 3,5,6,7,9,10,11. All of the groups of that size COMBINED make up less than 0.01% of games being launched. This would mean the MM would only be dealing with groups of 2,4,8 and 12 which would speed things up drastically. While this is something not really slated for implementation... I'd like to know if anyone has some thoughts on this.

[Video Gamer]

Paul Inouye, on 11 June 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

Gonna throw a wrench in here to see what you guys think of this. Kinda related...

Dropping support for groups of 3,5,6,7,9,10,11. All of the groups of that size COMBINED make up less than 0.01% of games being launched. This would mean the MM would only be dealing with groups of 2,4,8 and 12 which would speed things up drastically. While this is something not really slated for implementation... I'd like to know if anyone has some thoughts on this.

I know limiting the ability for smaller (<8 people) groups feels like a bad idea, as while I don't play near as frequently as I did back when 8v8 was the match size, when I do play now it more often then not is me joining 2 other people. It would turn the cases when I see two or 4 people playing the game from opportunities to jump in and play as a group into just listening to them play, or create that awkward situation where you have to figure out who doesn't play with the group and goes to do something else instead.