831 replies to this topic

[Joanna Conners]

TAMTAMBABY, on 01 May 2023 - 06:59 PM, said:

Write to people who want to hear from you. I don't want to hear from you. If you want to share your opinion, you can start a new topic

You're just bothering me. Your thoughts don't matter to me.

Feel free to share whatever you want with whoever you want as long as you're not addressing me.

Again... public forum. I'm engaging in a conversation you're participating in. In public.

As to the topic of hand... we used to have 8v8. It's all we had. And we complained about it incessantly for years until we got 12v12. We could always try to run both, but frankly with the current numbers that doesn't seem like a good idea.

[Tivian]

Honestly, I am not so sure Quick Match needs it. But I believe Faction Play would benefit from a que reduction. BY the way!! That was a great weekend event....my thoughts....AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN!!!!

[Fu Sun]

Paul Inouye, on 01 June 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

It’s been a while and there have been many discussions surrounding 8v8 for Quick Play and we communicated that we would cast a poll on the subject and here it is.

From a logistics/match making perspective, 8v8 has numerous advantages including faster team creation for both solo and group play in the match maker, faster connection times (less ‘Mechs being loaded), improved framerate, improved memory usage and less taxing on your local CPU.

From a player organization perspective, 8v8 means less management headaches getting 8 players together rather than 12, deck building would have a much higher impact in terms of what ‘Mechs are fielded and how they’re played. The ability to be carried through to victory is less likely due to the fact that in an 8v8 scenario, every ‘Mech matters more.

The drawbacks affect the game in a different way and are just as important. We would be losing the feel of full divisional combat (12 ‘Mechs in 3 lances). Switching to 8v8 will not be a simple switch and team size reduction. UI, Match Maker, Economy, game mode adjustments, map adjustments, etc. A switch to 8v8 will also impact on our ability to address other parts of the game such as Faction Play.

Overall, we would be looking at covering all team size areas via the following:
* 1v1 and 2v2 are covered in Solaris 7.
* 4v4 in Scouting
* 8v8 will be covered in Quick Play and Comp Play.
* 12v12 will be covered in Faction Play.

So the big question is, and the reason for this poll, would you like to see Quick Play switch to 8v8?

No, all you have to do is make the algorithm to select teams simply, and be more forgiving about variety. If everyone wants to use an assault, why not, make 12v12 of all assault mechs. 12v12 of light mechs.

I do not see the point of 8v8 at all. Why not 16v16, that sounds like it'd be more fun. If you make every game 8v8, you will have more people yelling at the players who are new who are not pulling their own weight, because the teams will be more reliant on individuals.

For 16v16 you would have to make matches for 20 minutes to give everyone time, but it is not like the developers will try anything that fun or interesting, they want to make 4 different varieties of Supernova in different colors to sell.

Edited by Fu Sun, 17 June 2023 - 09:14 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Fu Sun, on 17 June 2023 - 09:11 AM, said:

No, all you have to do is make the algorithm to select teams simply, and be more forgiving about variety. If everyone wants to use an assault, why not, make 12v12 of all assault mechs. 12v12 of light mechs.

I do not see the point of 8v8 at all. Why not 16v16, that sounds like it'd be more fun. If you make every game 8v8, you will have more people yelling at the players who are new who are not pulling their own weight, because the teams will be more reliant on individuals.

For 16v16 is you have to make matches for 20 minutes to give everyone time, but it is not like the developers will try anything that fun or interesting, they want to make 4 different varieties of Supernova in different colors to sell.

I would LOVE to see a 16v16 event!

[Al_Bundy]

the wrong question is being discussed here, the correct one would be:
How do we get more players?

with an ancient engine (cryengine 3) from 2012?
with a non-functioning balance?
with game modes which cannot (hardly) be used ( FP ) ?
with 1000 combinations of weapons and mechs ?
With sniper cards and barely visible mechs?
with increasingly absurd mechs , with no real differences ?

The game had a lot of construction sites, but the most important and biggest is the balancing - if it doesn't work - the players leave and don't encourage friends to play it.

Put energy into it, then upgrade to Cryengine 5 (or UE 4/5)..or just leave it be and add a multiplayer mode to MW5 --- that would probably be the best.

[pbiggz]

Al_Bundy, on 28 June 2023 - 08:06 AM, said:

the wrong question is being discussed here, the correct one would be:
How do we get more players?

with an ancient engine (cryengine 3) from 2012?
with a non-functioning balance?
with game modes which cannot (hardly) be used ( FP ) ?
with 1000 combinations of weapons and mechs ?
With sniper cards and barely visible mechs?
with increasingly absurd mechs , with no real differences ?

The game had a lot of construction sites, but the most important and biggest is the balancing - if it doesn't work - the players leave and don't encourage friends to play it.

Put energy into it, then upgrade to Cryengine 5 (or UE 4/5)..or just leave it be and add a multiplayer mode to MW5 --- that would probably be the best.

The fact that you ask for these things tells me you have little understanding of how much time and money these things would cost.

8v8 would be a very quick way to refresh quick play.

[DAEDALOS513]

pbiggz, on 28 June 2023 - 10:50 AM, said:

The fact that you ask for these things tells me you have little understanding of how much time and money these things would cost.

8v8 would be a very quick way to refresh quick play.

8v8 was already tried.. it was a bore-fest because it resulted in more camping. Also, you know how if a team loses 2 mechs at the start, how it is very difficult to recover from that.. well that 'effect' is multiplied because there are now fewer players on each team. The first death or two will, more than ever, determine the outcome of the match (in most cases). Deaths are less forgiving, hence players are scared to move and will camp more.

Also, it didn't feel like a battle.. more like a small skirmish or like scout-mode.

[Fu Sun]

Al_Bundy, on 28 June 2023 - 08:06 AM, said:

the wrong question is being discussed here, the correct one would be:
How do we get more players?

with an ancient engine (cryengine 3) from 2012?
with a non-functioning balance?
with game modes which cannot (hardly) be used ( FP ) ?
with 1000 combinations of weapons and mechs ?
With sniper cards and barely visible mechs?
with increasingly absurd mechs , with no real differences ?

The game had a lot of construction sites, but the most important and biggest is the balancing - if it doesn't work - the players leave and don't encourage friends to play it.

Put energy into it, then upgrade to Cryengine 5 (or UE 4/5)..or just leave it be and add a multiplayer mode to MW5 --- that would probably be the best.

Take the game away from PGI, and give it to Americans, who love fun. They would design features around having fun, stop tweaking microlasers to shoot 0.1 times faster or 0.1 less range, because some guy in Vancouver thinks it's absolutely going to improve gameplay and balance.

No. It is too wonky, and you are probably aware of your own crime against video game development. If you guys put out a map, and left it alone, someone could disagree with this. Take the rattle away from the baby, it's making too much noise.

[Al_Bundy]

pbiggz, on 28 June 2023 - 10:50 AM, said:

Die Tatsache, dass Sie nach diesen Dingen fragen, sagt mir, dass Sie wenig Verständnis dafür haben, wie viel Zeit und Geld diese Dinge kosten würden.

8v8 wäre eine sehr schnelle Möglichkeit, das schnelle Spiel aufzufrischen.

Yes, I realize that these things cost money...sometimes a lot of money. However, it was PGI's decision to put the game into maintenance mode for years and NOT do ANYTHING more. Well, if you make such decisions, you should be aware that this will catch up with you at some point and then become more expensive.

Compare it to a house, if you hate cracks in the facade and if you leave them for years, mold will eventually form and it will be more expensive to repair, that's what happens here.

Unfortunately, these changes of the last 12 months come years too late and the "new" Platinum Mechs don't help either, just like the Legend Mechs.

After years of inactivity, a lot more has to be invested to keep the whole thing alive...unfortunately and with evry month / Year it gets more expensive.

It would really be better to bring a corresponding mode into MW5 ... surely it costs less than updating this

Edited by Al_Bundy, 28 June 2023 - 08:07 PM.

[pbiggz]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 June 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

8v8 was already tried.. it was a bore-fest

Opinion

DAEDALOS513, on 28 June 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

because it resulted in more camping.

No it didn't. Lack of respawns in a game that firmly rewards match score and KDR above all else are what causes people to play defensively.

DAEDALOS513, on 28 June 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

Also, you know how if a team loses 2 mechs at the start, how it is very difficult to recover from that.. well that 'effect' is multiplied because there are now fewer players on each team. The first death or two will, more than ever, determine the outcome of the match (in most cases). Deaths are less forgiving, hence players are scared to move and will camp more.

Again that's a lack of respawns issue. 12v12 did not fix that.

DAEDALOS513, on 28 June 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

Also, it didn't feel like a battle.. more like a small skirmish or like scout-mode.

Opinion.

[DAEDALOS513]

pbiggz, on 29 June 2023 - 04:50 AM, said:

Opinion

No it didn't. Lack of respawns in a game that firmly rewards match score and KDR above all else are what causes people to play defensively.

Again that's a lack of respawns issue. 12v12 did not fix that.

Opinion.

Opinion of someone that helped trial run 8v8. Opinion of someone that's been playing this game religiously since the beginning. Opinion that is shared by many others.

'Respawns' in a mode called QUICK-play is counter-intuitive; Try CW.

I never said 12v12 fixed the difficulty that comes with recovering from being on a team that loses the first 2 mechs.. I said it was MUCH less punishing than in 8v8.

Forums are full of opinions.. including yours.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 29 June 2023 - 10:31 AM.

[pbiggz]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 June 2023 - 10:24 AM, said:

Opinion of someone that helped trial run 8v8. Opinion of someone that's been playing this game religiously since the beginning. Opinion that is shared by many others.

8v8 wasn't a trial run, it was just the game, and I've been playing it just as long or longer, so if you're looking to show off your clout find somewhere else to do it.

DAEDALOS513, on 29 June 2023 - 10:24 AM, said:

'Respawns' in a mode called QUICK-play is counter-intuitive; Try CW.

What an excellent way to show everyone you haven't even bothered to THINK about this. Every game mode we have clearly works better with respawns, and every one of them is reduced to skirmish with extra steps/ways to grief specifically because we don't have respawns. Nowhere in any honest proposal for respawns does anyone suggest quickplay matches need to be longer, though, as an aside, my personal view is that they should be longer, because the amount of time you spend waiting for a match relative to the amount of time you get to actually play is laughable. This game wastes and abuses your time constantly, but since you can't figure out how respawns would work, i guess nobody gets to have them.

DAEDALOS513, on 29 June 2023 - 10:24 AM, said:

I never said 12v12 fixed the difficulty that comes with recovering from being on a team that loses the first 2 mechs.. I said it was MUCH less punishing than in 8v8.

Making a problem easier to ignore is a pretty piss poor strategy.

DAEDALOS513, on 29 June 2023 - 10:24 AM, said:

Forums are full of opinions.. including yours.

I majored in game design so my opinions are informed by actual theory taught by professionals. Your opinions appear to be informed by personal preference.


I find it quite disappointing that every cool change that gets proposed for this game gets immediately shouted down by a bunch of untrained mechdads who are wildly and irrationally afraid of any kind of change.

[DAEDALOS513]

pbiggz, on 29 June 2023 - 12:26 PM, said:

8v8 wasn't a trial run, it was just the game, and I've been playing it just as long or longer, so if you're looking to show off your clout find somewhere else to do it.



What an excellent way to show everyone you haven't even bothered to THINK about this. Every game mode we have clearly works better with respawns, and every one of them is reduced to skirmish with extra steps/ways to grief specifically because we don't have respawns. Nowhere in any honest proposal for respawns does anyone suggest quickplay matches need to be longer, though, as an aside, my personal view is that they should be longer, because the amount of time you spend waiting for a match relative to the amount of time you get to actually play is laughable. This game wastes and abuses your time constantly, but since you can't figure out how respawns would work, i guess nobody gets to have them.



Making a problem easier to ignore is a pretty piss poor strategy.



I majored in game design so my opinions are informed by actual theory taught by professionals. Your opinions appear to be informed by personal preference.


I find it quite disappointing that every cool change that gets proposed for this game gets immediately shouted down by a bunch of untrained mechdads who are wildly and irrationally afraid of any kind of change.

I'm not showing clout.. since you were condescending and downplayed my comment as an 'opinion' I wanted to show you that mine isn't just the opinion of a weekend gamer.

Adding respawns would add other problems such as spawn-camping and making quick-play.. NOT quickplay. I'm all for new game-modes, but adding respawns isn't changing the game mode, it's just making it longer.

Making a problem 'easier to ignore' is the best we can hope for at this stage of the game. And at least it's going in the right direction..

Calling me a mech-dad is, again, condescending. It weakens your arguments when you resort to such tacticts. If you look at the poll results, it's an even split between for and against 8v8. So maybe your opinion isn't so popular after all.

I like anything new presented for the game, even if it has faults.. simply bec it's something DIFFERENT. They should bring back VIP and scouting modes .. but 8v8 brings nothing new to the table.. and adding re-spawns will introduce other issues. Poll results show it isn't worth the effort/time.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 29 June 2023 - 02:02 PM.

[pbiggz]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 June 2023 - 02:02 PM, said:

I'm not showing clout.. since you were condescending and downplayed my comment as an 'opinion' I wanted to show you that mine isn't just the opinion of a weekend gamer.

Adding respawns would add other problems such as spawn-camping and making quick-play.. NOT quickplay. I'm all for new game-modes, but adding respawns isn't changing the game mode, it's just making it longer.

Making a problem 'easier to ignore' is the best we can hope for at this stage of the game. And at least it's going in the right direction..

Calling me a mech-dad is, again, condescending. It weakens your arguments when you resort to such tacticts. If you look at the poll results, it's an even split between for and against 8v8. So maybe your opinion isn't so popular after all.

I like anything new presented for the game, even if it has faults.. simply bec it's something DIFFERENT. They should bring back VIP and scouting modes .. but 8v8 brings nothing new to the table.. and adding re-spawns will introduce other issues. Poll results show it isn't worth the effort/time.

Again you've chosen to ignore the actual proposals and assume that any suggestion outside of your own is bad and wrong. You get branded a mechdad because you behave like one. There's not much point in discussing anything in this thread if you and yours pretend to have veto power.

[DAEDALOS513]

pbiggz, on 29 June 2023 - 03:50 PM, said:

Again you've chosen to ignore the actual proposals and assume that any suggestion outside of your own is bad and wrong. You get branded a mechdad because you behave like one. There's not much point in discussing anything in this thread if you and yours pretend to have veto power.

I literally referred to the poll results..

I literally pointed out that your opinion isn't any more popular than mine..

I simply pointed out 8v8 would bring new issues to the table.. issues we saw during the trial.. and this is mech-dadding bec I don't agree with you?

Do you not understand how forum discussions work?

[pbiggz]

DAEDALOS513, on 30 June 2023 - 10:37 AM, said:

I literally referred to the poll results..

I literally pointed out that your opinion isn't any more popular than mine..

And im pointing out that this community has a noted streak of not knowing what's good for it.

DAEDALOS513, on 30 June 2023 - 10:37 AM, said:

I simply pointed out 8v8 would bring new issues to the table.. issues we saw during the trial..

8v8 wasn't a trial, it was the game. 12v12 was the experiment; a serious change that was embarked on with very little consideration for the consequences, and to be clear it did have consequences.

DAEDALOS513, on 30 June 2023 - 10:37 AM, said:

and this is mech-dadding bec I don't agree with you?

Dismissing changes out of hand without so much as a second thought because you personally think they could theoretically present a risk is peak mechdad.

[DAEDALOS513]

Remember when you suggested that I thought 'any suggestions outside my own head are bad and wrong?' That was funny, especially after you stated 'this community has a noted streak of not knowing what's good for it.' Projecting much?

I'm dismissing the 8v8 'change' because.. it's wouldn't be a change.. we already tried it, it was a fail. Think of something original.

[pbiggz]

DAEDALOS513, on 30 June 2023 - 12:20 PM, said:

Remember when you suggested that I thought 'any suggestions outside my own head are bad and wrong?' That was funny, especially after you stated 'this community has a noted streak of not knowing what's good for it.' Projecting much?

Precisely because you guys have a very specific idea of what you wanted MWO to be, and it has never been, and never will be that, and you've never been able to come to terms with it.

DAEDALOS513, on 30 June 2023 - 12:20 PM, said:

I'm dismissing the 8v8 'change' because.. it's wouldn't be a change.. we already tried it, it was a fail. Think of something original.

It didn't fail. You just don't like it.

[thetruegriffin]

Recommendation: Quick play is 8 v 8 but you add in an AI VTOL lance and Tank Lance to balance out the Battle Value/Points Value of the players in the queue. That way MM isn't spinning too long. It takes the next 8 players, divvies them up as best it can, then weight the AI lances to make up the difference. Adding Ground Vehicles and VTOLs (migrate assets over from MW5) will really spice things up and should peak some interest. may even bring new players to an otherwise stale game. It's a lot quicker for me to just link up with some friends for CoOp MW5 than wait in a queue for an MWO match that could go south very quickly due to skill disparity. This game is not forgiving to new players, so you have to find a way to keep them engaged and keep them wanting to try another match. Currently, the queue is too long, and gameplay has become generally uninteresting. rethinking where new players can contribute to the team (like taking down an Eagle or stomping out a Parisan) could help breathe life into a game that seems to be on borrowed time.

Edited by thetruegriffin, 13 August 2023 - 11:32 AM.

[MechB Kotare]

thetruegriffin, on 13 August 2023 - 11:08 AM, said:

Recommendation: Quick play is 8 v 8 but you add in an AI VTOL lance and Tank Lance to balance out the Battle

They already explained, that adding npc assets into mwo is not an option. Not only its outdated engine, it would require lots of recources they are not willing to invest.

I've also been around ever since beggining of MWO, and i found 8v8 to be a lot more dynamic. I also liked, how individual skill matter more in 8v8 setting. 12 v 12 is cool, when people stop cluster *****. But almost everytime, 12 mechs get together and start chasing flanking lights and mediums escalating into rotations.

8v8 for me.

Maybe reintroduce 8v8 in qp for small maps, and keep 12 v 12 for bigger maps. Would be nice compromise.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 15 August 2023 - 03:16 AM.