845 replies to this topic

[Stinger554]

Throe, on 14 June 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

I recall what you're referring to, and the concerns were that random weapon convergence penalties would be too much for HSR to handle. I'm not suggesting anything random. I'm saying the weapons should all just fire parallel to each other. This is similar to what we already have with JJ convergence limitations, although in that case, the weapons on a given 'Mech "diverge" in a very predictable pattern, meaning that with the right loadout, you can still fire some weapons accurately while under the effect of JJ.

It would also be true that you could fire some weapons accurately while you're experiencing a weapon convergence limitation, but the point is that high accuracy, high alpha, long range strikes would be far less effective, and the effect of firing too many weapons at once would be supremely obvious, rather that practically invisible.

Ah I didn't quite remember exactly details on what was said, so cool.

Didn't mean it as a objection to adjusting weapon convergence as I agree that having every pinpoint is/could be causing issues.

[Cy Mitchell]

I have suggested reductions in Clan laser damage several times and I will stand by the numbers here again:

Clan SPL raise to 5 damage
Clan erML lower to 6 damage
Clan HM laser lower to 8 damage
Clan HL laser lower to 15 damage

I believe the rest of the laser are in a good place.

I have no opinion on Clan Gauss changes as I seldom use it. However, I still believe that Clan UACs are under performing when not boated and need to have reduction in Jam chance and/or reduction in Jam duration because they are simply not reliable enough to be used as single or paired weapons.

Please consider removing coolshots from the game completely or give them a downside such as reduced cooling effectiveness after use. For example if you purge coolant to blow off heat then your overall cooling ability should suffer due to the loss of coolant. 5-10% reduction in cooling ability after each use might be a good starting point.

I am a Clan only player and I am happy to see that you are actively trying to reign in the ridiculous high Alphas that Clans are currently capable of.

[PraetorGix]

First and foremost. Clans do more damage, because IS has much more durability. Before even thinking how to nerf clan alphas, be sure to take into account the lowering of IS HPs.
Second, please, for the love of Kerensky DO NOT TOUCH WEAPON DAMAGE. You punish not only the min-maxer, but you punish me as well, a mediocre player who likes to mix weapons and build for fun, not efficiency.
From the start your vision for the clan tech has been one of high skill, high reward. I remember reading several official posts where you say that in order to make the most of clan tech you need to be good. And who is good at MWO? The very same comp players that do those 94 alpha builds. I, and the majority of your player base are not that good and the last thing we need is to want to mount one measly UAC 10 and seeing it got nerfed. Again. And then going into a match and having to chew trough 120 points of IS armor.
I say it again, balance to make the weapons harder to boat, not harder to use when mounting one or two. And if you do that, lower IS durability across the board. Otherwise this will be yet another of your attempts where you spend gigantic amounts of time and effort to end up in the same spot. You say you will take into consideration all feedback so I really hope you do mine. Thank you for reading this.

Edited by PraetorGix, 14 June 2018 - 10:40 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

PraetorGix, on 14 June 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

First and foremost. Clans do more damage, because IS has much more durability. Before even thinking how to nerf clan alphas, be sure to take into account the lowering of IS HPs.

Correction: IS has more durability, because Clan weapons do more damage.

[PraetorGix]

Eisenhorne, on 11 June 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

Nerfing that 94 pt alpha though by any of these suggestions would cripple other clan mechs that don't have 94 pt alphas. The Night Gyr for example is very useful with 2 Gauss + 2 ERLL. All these suggestions would ruin that build. Leaving the massive alpha that's only situationaly useful is preferable IMO to destroying other mechs that aren't a problem.

Exactly. Because otherwise, you fall again into the "unfunning of MWO" mentality Inouye has. But that really is the underlying problem every time some balancing effort is made.
But hey, look at the bright side, one day each and every weapon will be so bad that you will have a great array of options again. Doesn't matter what you choose, everything will suck equally. That's balance too right?

[wolvhound]

So...I went and counted out how the faction wins are just for this year
Clans have a whopping 18 since January 1st while IS has a measly 47
Clan totally needs another Nerf right.....right????

[PraetorGix]

Jay Leon Hart, on 14 June 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

Correction: IS has more durability, because Clan weapons do more damage.

Enlightening. Does me being wrong in that changes the underlying idea? No. So your superior knowledge is completely unnecessary, you can go illuminate mortals somewhere else unless you have something actually constructive to add.

[Jay Leon Hart]

PraetorGix, on 14 June 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

Enlightening. Does me being wrong in that changes the underlying idea? No. So your superior knowledge is completely unnecessary, you can go illuminate mortals somewhere else unless you have something actually constructive to add.

If we want to reduce quirks (PGI does, the community overall seems to want to) then we need to also reduce damage.

Most quirks are on IS 'mechs, so Clan damage needs to come down.

I hope this illumination helps.

[wolvhound]

The nerfs need to stop. They (pgi) made a mess then had a knee jerk reaction to it which has only brought more of a mess
How fun will it be to play faction play when clan has only 2 or 3 teams playing.
You won't see clan in quickplay for long. No reason to take clan mechs with the constant nerfs when I can sit in an IS mech and know they will never Nerf it even if it is a ridiculous build.
The stuff about heat could work but not with ghost heat. They should make other weapons relevant again instead of breaking something else. And why not let IS take some clan weapons and clanners take some IS weapons as the weapons already perform differently why not?
If this is how MechWarrior 5 is gonna be I want no part in it....which makes me really sad.
When the community hands you a document that's had 1500 people test and work on you should listen.
Most of the time I see one or two clans in quickplay....2 of 24 mechs are clan on average because they blow up much faster than IS and no one wants to play with all the nerfs

[Imperius]

I’ll leave this as feedback since it really doesn’t matter. I’ve already quit MWO a long time ago. If these changes go through it just confirms my belief the people responsible don’t actually understand fun. I’m not waiting for 300 micro changes for the game to maybe be fun 5 more years.

Mwo is dead to me. I’m here for MW5. Thankfully my investment into MWO helped pay for that.

Edited by Imperius, 14 June 2018 - 12:05 PM.

[Stinger554]

Jay Leon Hart, on 14 June 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

I hope this illumination helps.

It won't. Unfortunately.

Imperius, on 14 June 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

I’m not waiting for 300 micro changes for the game to maybe be fun 5 more years.

This. I understand that PGI wants to make iterative changes but they need to make them at a faster pace if the changes themselves are going to be small.

[Rick T Dangerous]

If you keep on nerfing clans, reduce IS durability quirks at the same time. Or better yet, nerf the IS survival tree.

EDIT: <rant> When clans received those additional 15T in FP I first thought the nerfing of clans was over. Oh how wrong I was, as the notes for the next patch showed. ClanTech has been nerfed beyond being ridiculous, our heatsinks blow out like candles on a birthday cake, using a clan gauss basically means putting a 12 ton 6 slot bomb into your mech, clan dakka is a joke, and clan missiles spread so much that some hit, some miss. And clan lasers? They are like spotlights, forcing claners to facetank all those PPFLD weapons IS is allowed to enjoy in their safespace mechs.

When is it enough, PGI?</rant>

Edited by Rick T Dangerous, 14 June 2018 - 12:43 PM.

[Rizzi Kell]

<a href="https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=571&l=8edf7b20ff99fbe785833fc78011c2076b636a13">MEAN BABY</a>
ihave Nothing else to say….

[Y E O N N E]

The Mean Baby is terrible, though.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

MEAN BABY
ihave Nothing else to say….

Nice Ghost Heat you got there

(link fixed btw)

[Rizzi Kell]

the ghost head is irelevant...you talk About high Alpha.... this is a high Alpha damned, now i had another thing to say….

[Jay Leon Hart]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

the ghost head is irelevant...you talk About high Alpha.... this is a high Alpha damned, now i had another thing to say….

Oh? OK then
237 damage DWF - it will die before it can fire everything

[Grim 13]

Stinger554, on 14 June 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

Oh and what builds are those?

102.2 divided by 2 = 51.2

51.2 < 94

Clan alpha does more efficient damage. Even compared to the not toasty 80 or 72 alphas.

BTW 57 is slow; which reinforces my point. Also is that 110 alpha pinpoint at 500 meters?

I'm not gonna propagate the spreading of cancer by feeding you the build, silly it's a thinking man's game, be creative, figure it out.
Also, just because half of the aforementioned damage isn't pinpoint, doesn't mean you get to write it off as if it's not there... it's very much still part of the alpha, and it will very much still blow away anything large enough to matter.

And finally, no, it's not pinpoint at 500m, but it's accurate enough to focus down components at said range and is fast enough to reposition with the rest of the pack. Also taking into account it's 496 points of armor and ECM, I'd love to see you come up with a Clan equivalent.

Jay Leon Hart, on 14 June 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Really? Greatly exceed a 94 pinpoint no GH Alpha, you say?

Best I can manage is 97
Moving 32.4kph
4 tons of ammo
220m optimal range
Explosive side torsos
Terrible cooling efficiency

Or I can go Clan...

Best I can manage is 108
Moving 48.6kph
6 tons of ammo
400m optimal range
Explosive arms
Terrible cooling efficiency (but significantly better than above)

What are these super-secret IS 'mechs and their builds that greatly exceed a 94 pinpoint no GH Alpha?

Did I say something about avoiding GH? I think you're putting words in my mouth now... yum!
The 110 alpha build hits GH, but it's so negligible it's not even worth thinking about (3% extra heat per alpha whooptie do! )
The 102.2 alpha build actually only goes 46.2 km/h (not the previously mentioned 50), has no GH, 990 max damage potential, optimal range of 300, but can do 30 pinpoint dmg out to 600m.

The best you can manage as far as clams go is 172 damage in 1-2 seconds #justsayin'... it's not an alpha strike per se, but it might as well be. Now that I've mentioned it, I might go ~spread some love~ with it

P.S. As previously mentioned, I won't disclose the specifics of the builds as to not propagate the cancer, we have enough of it already. (although it would be hilarious to see a fleet of my phallic shaped and colored 'Mechs running around one-shotting everything)

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

the ghost head is irelevant...

Challenge accepted
DWF

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grim 13, on 14 June 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

Did I say something about avoiding GH? I think you're putting words in my mouth now... yum!

Posting in a thread discussing Clan Gauss & laser changes
94 damage Alpha build using those has no GH

So yeah, you were talking about a 94 damage no GH build, even if you didn't realise it

Toha Heavy Industries, on 14 June 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

Challenge accepted
DWF

10.15 damage more than mine - I should be ashamed!