13 replies to this topic

[P0607]

I think almost every player that has played escort mode thought about that.
So one random assault (or the heaviest one) becomes the vip-mech. It may or may not get an armor buff. It will make for a lot more fun and engaging mode than it currently is, even ecm towers will actually make sense. Such change will also greatly reduce the chance of vip suiciding into enemy (the thing that is the most frustrating about the current state of this gamemode), and even if the player who was assigned the vip role will, you can still report him, unlike the bot.

I've seen a topic where someone suggested to just get rid of the mode, but I think it isn't that hard to just replace the vip-bot with a real person. And people will actually enjoy it! Also it will greatly encourage teamwork and even be somewhat friendly for new players.

Edited by P0607, 09 July 2018 - 06:17 AM.

[oO JimPansen Oo]

Yes, but ask who wanna be VIP. I think many players who don't want to play VIP will disco if forced to...

[MechanicalWraith]

Quite aside from the intricacies of implementing a playable VIP, do you really think anyone would enjoy being constantly commanded and subject to above-average verbal abuse for dying - as the objective literally hinges on that one player's performance? I'm not opposed to the idea, but it won't be pretty.

[P0607]

MechanicalWraith, on 23 June 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

Quite aside from the intricacies of implementing a playable VIP, do you really think anyone would enjoy being constantly commanded and subject to above-average verbal abuse for dying - as the objective literally hinges on that one player's performance? I'm not opposed to the idea, but it won't be pretty.

Well, players are already often being subjects to verbal abuse for dying in our current reality. And the bot VIP always suicides anyway. As of being constantly commanded, I think It won't really be a problem, cause most people don't really like calling shots. And if you are to be chosen as a VIP maybe you could command yourself. And if there is a person willing to command, why not let him lead? Most people will listen even in quick play.

Also you could make players choose if they wanna become the VIP, like JimPansen suggested. By choosing to be one players will be sure to take charge, calm people down and take the hit if they die cause of their own mistake.

[1TracE1]

People are going to trash talk one way or another. That can't be an excuse to not implement a potentially beneficial idea.

I'd really like to see a player driven VIP because my big complaint of this mode is the inability to predict the VIP's movements. That coupled with the fact that he cannot change course; makes it difficult to implement strategy and teamwork. All of which could be remedied by giving the VIP over to player control. If you also give the VIP a light defense suite. (I'm thinking: Two small lasers, two ams, tag, and ecm) The player will have some ability to defend themselves without giving them the ability to fight directly.

Obviously the assignment would have to be random. But when it's only one game mode and one side of the team, it's not like players will have to endure being VIP often even if they are not in favor of it. Also if they disco, the mech will still be there and the game can still be won with an attrition victory possibly. Just a thought.

[JainusVt]

I think that a player should be the VIP, but as extra 13th player to the the defending team.

[GweNTLeR]

I have 2 possible ideas about escort:
1) in the beginning of the game 1 mech out of 24 is randomly chosen to be a VIP on a following logic: the heavier the mech, the higher chance of becoming the VIP. This mech gets double Armor and structure and a 15% reduced speed. As the game starts, the map square in which the VIP currently is becomes marked for both teams. Defenders know who the VIP is, but the attackers dont. If attackers manage to find who the VIP is and kill him, they win. Otherwise - they lose.
2)Almost the same stuff, but with VIPs for each team. The first team to find enemy's VIP and kill him wins.
I think it would be REALLY fun to play it in QP.
Could be somewhat adapted for FW IF NECESSARY, with passing the VIP status after death to another player's next mech (up to 4 VIP death, when you will lose)
What do you think about it?
I honestly dont like the current escort mode, since it is possible to
a. just do objective rush and hence troll everybody who wants to play;
b. just ignore the VIP and play the same skirmish.
I think it needs a rework like I wrote.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 27 June 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[P0607]

AlphaWolfAlrex, on 27 June 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

I think that a player should be the VIP, but as extra 13th player to the the defending team.

I think an armor buff is enough, cause the player VIP will have weapons and armor buff, so this will often lead to a stomp. And if you give VIP no extra armor It won't really matter if you have one extra player, cause he will just get annihilated.

GweNTLeR, on 27 June 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

2)Almost the same stuff, but with VIPs for each team. The first team to find enemy's VIP and kill him wins.
I think it would be REALLY fun to play it in QP.
Could be somewhat adapted for FW IF NECESSARY, with passing the VIP status after death to another player's next mech (up to 4 VIP death, when you will lose)
What do you think about it?
I honestly dont like the current escort mode, since it is possible to
a. just do objective rush and hence troll everybody who wants to play;
b. just ignore the VIP and play the same skirmish.
I think it needs a rework like I wrote.

That is indeed interesting, I've seen such mode in one turn-based strategy/tactical game, but VIP units there were identical and had no means to protect themselves. So I am not sure how it will work in MWO, since one team can have a heavier VIP or a really fast one, and it may become a stomp or a race. It will be pretty hard to balance. So for now I just want PGI to implement a simple escort that we know right now with a player-driven VIP. But if the mode becomes popular more similar modes, such as yours, could be tried.

Implementing the mode to FW will be tricky, especially considering that it gets announced before the start, so players can just get a rush setup and will take VIPs down really fast with lbk/asn/whatever.

[Mister Maf]

GweNTLeR, on 27 June 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

2)Almost the same stuff, but with VIPs for each team. The first team to find enemy's VIP and kill him wins.
I think it would be REALLY fun to play it in QP.
Could be somewhat adapted for FW IF NECESSARY, with passing the VIP status after death to another player's next mech (up to 4 VIP death, when you will lose)
What do you think about it?

This idea sounds interesting on paper until you remember what game we're talking about. People love camping in this game, while attacking is difficult and a poorly-executed attack that doesn't include everyone on the team leads to heavy losses. The winning strategy in such a mode would be to wait it out until one team gets bored and attacks, because they must either attack with their VIP or attack minus one assault mech. In either case, they are at a disadvantage. This is the opposite of the current escort mode, which forces both teams to be aggressive: the escorting team must clear the way for the VIP before it gets to the frontline or they lose, and the attacking team must push through the defenders before the VIP escapes or they lose. Both sides are on a timer that will expire if they sit around for too long. This is what makes it fun if your team knows how to play it and frustrating if they don't, but at least it doesn't promote being passive.

As for making a player the VIP in the current framework, I like the idea in a perfect world where the average player can read and follow directions on their HUD. Unfortunately, I think what would happen most of the time is the VIP player wouldn't realize that they are the VIP and do something dumb to lose the game for their team, especially if they had a series of checkpoints to walk through like the scripted VIP does.

One bandaid for escort mode I think could help in the meantime is letting the escorting team see what route the VIP will take so they can plan ahead for it.

Also, a tip to make escort mode more livable currently: as a defender, take command at the start of the match and designate the VIP with the "Protect" comm wheel command. This will highlight the VIP in yellow so it's easier to keep track of.

Edit: Also, OP, your poll assumes that all presented options are better than the status quo. It needs an option for "No, something else" and "No, it's fine as it is".

Edited by Mister Maf, 08 July 2018 - 04:49 AM.

[P0607]

Mister Maf, on 08 July 2018 - 04:26 AM, said:

As for making a player the VIP in the current framework, I like the idea in a perfect world where the average player can read and follow directions on their HUD. Unfortunately, I think what would happen most of the time is the VIP player wouldn't realize that they are the VIP and do something dumb to lose the game for their team, especially if they had a series of checkpoints to walk through like the scripted VIP does.

I think you underestimate the players way too much.

Such bandaid wouldn't really help, cause if VIP rushes into the enemy, your team will be at a severe disadvantage anyway, probably either being slaughtered by a set up enemy or just losing the VIP. Also VIP is usually following one of preset paths anyway, so you can guess where he is going by his initial movement.

As of the poll, I've added an option to just leave it as it is. The option to remove it is more of a reaction to the topic that just suggested to remove the mode from the game.

[50 50]

This idea popped up a while ago somewhere else.
There are small number of problems that I can see with assigning the VIP status (randomly) to a player.

1. Yes, that player might dc because they don't want to be the VIP. This would be really poor on that players behalf and should get some hefty penalties..... Keeping in mind however that sometimes you just get a bad connection and it's not your fault.... so there has to be some rules around it.

But that leads into problem number 2.

2. A player might yolo into the enemy line to get the mode finished. Pretty poor on that players behalf again but don't know how you would 'police' that.

3. What happens if the VIP, if randomly assigned, is something really fast with an ECM? What is to stop that player from getting to the extraction point in a minute and ending the game?

4. Putting the entire responsibility on a single player puts the entire match in that single player's hands.

So, I am going to suggest an alternative.
Make it a VIP lance.
A command lance if you will.

This shares the responsibility across multiple players and negates some of the negative effects.
Base the match conditions and rewards on how many of those mechs survive to the extraction zone or in the case of the aggressors, how many they might destroy.

[P0607]

50 50, on 13 July 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

There are small number of problems that I can see with assigning the VIP status (randomly) to a player.

1. Bad connection is sure a problem. As of players who don't want to be the VIP, they may be able to pass the role to another assault before dropping or something like that.

2. You could "police" such behavior by adding an extra report option for exactly that action, which will only be active on the VIP. If enough reports are sent by players, the person will receive a matchmaking penalty. And there is already a "suicide" report option, but I'm not sure what effect does it have right now.

3. There should be tonnage restrictions. One option is mode will only trigger when there are assaults matched into the game and VIP role will be locked to assault class. There may be other options.

4. You don't really put all responsibility in one player's hands. Even if he does something wrong, team can follow him. And you can communicate with him and the rest of the team.

VIP lance sounds interesting, but it is not a simple solution and will be tricky to balance. The one tactic I see is that everyone will form new lances around 1 command mech in each of them. Then they will scatter and try to get some of them into the drop zone. Otherwise, if it will be a clash of full team on full team, attacker will be favored, because VIP lance mechs cannot take as much damage as the "regular" ones and are forced to play somewhat safely in order to survive. That is expoitable by the attacker. And if they try to reach the evac point, they are leaving their team without a significant percent of firepower.

[WarmasterRaptor]

Do similar to what they do in comp matches: each side have a VIP/Commander mech, bonus if you kills it, bonus to the team if it survives. VIP players get bonuses for surviving too.

Although one difference (since they have conquest at the same time) : VIP designated player needs to go from spawn point to randomly designated evac point on the map.

Ideally an assault should be the VIP.

This way, both teams are in a race to get to their destination but also have to sabotage the progression or kill the enemy VIP.

How about that?

[P0607]

WarmasterRaptor, on 14 July 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

Do similar to what they do in comp matches: each side have a VIP/Commander mech, bonus if you kills it, bonus to the team if it survives. VIP players get bonuses for surviving too.

Although one difference (since they have conquest at the same time) : VIP designated player needs to go from spawn point to randomly designated evac point on the map.

Ideally an assault should be the VIP.

This way, both teams are in a race to get to their destination but also have to sabotage the progression or kill the enemy VIP.

How about that?

What kind of bonus do you suggest in this mode? This should be either win or loss. Also VIP race/hunt was discussed earlier.
Not to say that such mode will differ more from what we have right now, therefore demanding more work from PGI. And they are not doing anything about the mode right now, so just replacing the bot with a real player with some new rules/regulations is the path of least resistance for them right now. Also I think it is a healthy first step, which may then lead to more complex modes utilizing the general idea.