657 replies to this topic

[Shi no Kami]

You know... the best way to fix any and all Alpha Strike builds?

Get rid of Weapon Convergence - at least on torso mounted weapons.
Those guns that are hard mounted into mechs torsos should not be able to always converge. Convergence should be set at X-distance and before and beyond that the weapons should not be striking the same point. Arm mounted weapons make sense to converge.

It buffs arm mounted weaponry and reduces Alpha strike pin point damage. It would also make MWO a little more like Battletech itself - where weapons have variable hit locations. (This does not get rid of skill in firing and maneuvering - it just requires a little more skill - such as knowing what is the most optimal range for your weapons).

[denAirwalkerrr]

Shi no Kami, on 26 June 2018 - 11:48 PM, said:

You know... the best way to fix any and all Alpha Strike builds?

Get rid of Weapon Convergence - at least on torso mounted weapons.
Those guns that are hard mounted into mechs torsos should not be able to always converge. Convergence should be set at X-distance and before and beyond that the weapons should not be striking the same point. Arm mounted weapons make sense to converge.

It buffs arm mounted weaponry and reduces Alpha strike pin point damage. It would also make MWO a little more like Battletech itself - where weapons have variable hit locations. (This does not get rid of skill in firing and maneuvering - it just requires a little more skill - such as knowing what is the most optimal range for your weapons).

Go play planes in War Thunder. It's year 3067, not 1940.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 27 June 2018 - 12:08 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Personally, I would remove the charge-up mechanic and instead cause Gauss only to be able to fire alone.

If any other weapon was fired, all Gauss go on a 0.5 second cooldown. If a Gauss is fired, all other weapons go on a 0.5 to 2 second cooldown. Pinpoint precision now requires steady and good aim, and you still have to expose yourself for a bit longer. A single Gauss Rifle however is still a very effective weapon, so a Grid Iron for example could still use it well (even better than now.)

Flavor Text:
Gauss Rifles draw a lot of energy from the reactor at once and needs to build up a strong electric charge, taxing the entire power supply system including the wiring and safeties. For that reason, it's not possible to fire a Gauss Rifle immediately after other weapons have fired, as the power supply system needs to be in a low power mode to withstand the massive energy charge-up, and has to recover after firing the Gauss Rifle.

Daruwind, on 26 June 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

NO MORE NERFS!
START BUFFING THINGS FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!

How does buffing things lower alpha strikes?

If they want to do is reduce the alpha-strike capabilities of mechs, they can't buff weapons. That can never possibly achieve that goal.

So it's a meaningless suggestion for this topic. You first have to establish why alpha strike potential is actually not as problematic as PGI makes it out to be. (And maybe you'd be right, though I doubt it).

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 27 June 2018 - 12:25 AM.

[A Headless Chicken]

MustrumRidcully, on 27 June 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

Personally, I would remove the charge-up mechanic and instead cause Gauss only to be able to fire alone.

If any other weapon was fired, all Gauss go on a 0.5 second cooldown. If a Gauss is fired, all other Gauss go on a 0.5 to 2 second cooldown. Pinpoint precision now requires steady and good aim, and you still have to expose yourself for a bit longer. A single Gauss Rifle however is still a very effective weapon, so a Grid Iron for example could still use it well (even better than now.)


How does buffing things lower alpha strikes?

If they want to do is reduce the alpha-strike capabilities of mechs, they can't buff weapons. That can never possibly achieve that goal.

So it's a meaningless suggestion for this topic. You first have to establish why alpha strike potential is actually not as problematic as PGI makes it out to be. (And maybe you'd be right, though I doubt it).

On the cooldown suggestion; it will make the skill gap more apparent though. Considering this is a balance pass aimed at people who can't exactly aim, it only gets more stringent for them to hold the crosshair over a target for longer. The better players who do have a steady and good aim will still be coring all of the rest of the people out.

On the topic of buffs, we're stuck with GaussVom as a result of playstyles being invalidated via nerfs. SPL/SRM brawling is dead with mobility nerfs, CSPL damage nerfs and CSRM spread nerfs. Poptarts with 45 PPFLD are dead with the ghost heat nerf. 2 ERPPC poptarts have been nerfed horribly to 5s CD which results in pathetic DPS. So rather than invalidating yet another playstyle, can we buff other weapons which will bring the other playstyles back into viability?

EDIT: How will it solve the problem? With more playstyles, big damage gauss vomit will be the last of the things you would be afraid of.

Let's also not get started on the (extremely random) nerfs to mobility which made everything a sitting duck.

Edited by A Headless Chicken, 27 June 2018 - 12:35 AM.

[Snowhawk]

A Headless Chicken, on 26 June 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

Which effectively targets and kills the clans, of course. Best part is that 2ERLL, 4ERML and 2CGAUSS gets away scot-free. Effective indeed

Well... this is part of "further steps". Pgi has to address also this build with ghost heat. Unfortunately Clans do not have much left and some weapons/builds are already overnerved.

[B0oN]

Chris, if you really want a higher TTK, just add 50% to ANY weapon cooldown and cut down heatsinking capabilities by the same amount, let the community play with that for at least 3 months, then tweak from there onwards.

Derived from "Complication brings ruination" found in "The art of warfare" penned by Sun-Tzu, the man with a clue .

Edited for some important addition

Edited by B0oN, 27 June 2018 - 12:48 AM.

[A Headless Chicken]

B0oN, on 27 June 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

Chris, if you really want a higher TTK, just add 50% to ANY weapon cooldown, let the community play with that for at least 3 months, then tweak from there onwards.

Derived from "Complication brings ruination" found in "The art of warfare" penned by Sun-Tzu, the man with a clue .

Strange, I'd think that people would go to play burst-oriented laser vomit and gauss which would be right at home in this scenario. They wouldn't want to be in the enemy's face with the now-nerfed sustained dps weapons like autocannons that take a decade and a half to reload.

[B0oN]

A Headless Chicken, on 27 June 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

Strange, I'd think that people would go to play burst-oriented laser vomit and gauss which would be right at home in this scenario. They wouldn't want to be in the enemy's face with the now-nerfed sustained dps weapons like autocannons that take a decade and a half to reload.

It´d be a starting point without complicating things not an end all woes solution, Headless .

I also forgot to add something up there ...

"[color=#959595]Chris, if you really want a higher TTK, just add 50% to ANY weapon cooldown and cut down heatsinking capabilities by the same amount, let the community play with that for at least 3 months, then tweak from there onwards."[/color]

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 June 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

There is no way to tone it down other than restricting users to firing one at a time. Lowering it to as far as even 17 won't solve the head-shot "problem" as long as you can still fire two together, and anything lower than 22 would make it not an HGauss at all.

Frankly, it really just sounds like too many people are face-staring you.

Then thats exactly what they should do. Limit HGR alpha to one and buff HGR base stats so single HGR builds are more used.

[A Headless Chicken]

B0oN, on 27 June 2018 - 12:47 AM, said:

It´d be a starting point without complicating things not an end all woes solution, Headless .

I also forgot to add something up there ...

"[color=#959595]Chris, if you really want a higher TTK, just add 50% to ANY weapon cooldown and cut down heatsinking capabilities by the same amount, let the community play with that for at least 3 months, then tweak from there onwards."[/color]

I meant it more in a sense of finding a new meta. Players worth their salt would just gravitate to the longest range weapon with the most punch, fire and cool off, regardless of heat since nobody would want to be exposed to an enemy with "sustained dps" weapons that can't be fired. It'd make for slower paced and sleepier games AND make the frontloading of damage even worse while invalidating more builds, namely dakka (how do you sustain firing weapons with a lower heat cap?). Another nail to the coffin imo.

Gimping playstyles is a complication, no matter how you try to put it.

Edited by A Headless Chicken, 27 June 2018 - 01:00 AM.

[Croaker Munin]

Daruwind, on 26 June 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

NO MORE NERFS!
START BUFFING THINGS FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!

All said

[Gazbeard]

The Excavator, on 26 June 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

It is a joke right? .....

If this goes live, bye bye to MWO. Sorry, everyone will play IS Mechs then.

Quite a few people believe this is exactly what Russ & Paul are intending, and that they never wanted Clan in the game anyway.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Here's a radical thought...

Double armor values again.

[Sam Slade]

WOW

It's almost like you should have added an aiming mechanic as was suggested by literally everyone in Beta testing.. FROM THE VERY BEGINNING!!!

Something like... fixed torso weapons firing directly forward and only arm mounted weapons getting to converge?

Perhaps a target locking mechanic that increases accuracy?

Maybe a stability mechanic that rewards stationary fire?

Again.. ALL THINGS ARDENTLY REQUESTED AFTER ONE DAMNED ROUND OF BETA TESTING!!!

[Gazbeard]

K.I.S.S.

If the problem is too high an alpha on certain mechs ... reduce the number of weapon hardpoints ON THOSE MECHS ONLY!

Stop nerfing all the smaller mechs below those bigger mechs by "stealth" ... in other words, stop nerfing the weapons for all and look at the specific mechs that are the problem.

I have also said in the previous thread - look at the PSR and fix that, then increase the number of PSR tiers to separate the power players from the potatoes and a lot of the 12:0 / 12:1 battle score problems will go away ... leading to fewer outcries of this or that is OP.

[Velocikitty]

Quote

Sigh..

So its come to this PGI.

You could breath new life into the game at this point. By a massive amount of weapon changes. Make weapons that are useless, into weapons that are decent, if not awesome to use.

Instead, we get yet another heavy handed, and out of touch 'balance' update. I'm sure we're get a 'brand new whale pack' next week too!

You could literally draw a bunch of players back. Instead, you are driving what little player base away, by doing half brained passes like this..

Its a shame, I actually enjoyed this game at one point. Years ago. Before the bloat of skill trees, and weapon bloats.

Signed,
A former customer.

Just gonna re-quote this.

You had a spreadsheet the community said to put up on the PTS. Give it a freaking test.
You have a 35+ page topic telling you that these nerfs won't help. Instead of trusting the player base, who has... Lets be honest, even I have more time played than 99.999% of the dev team at this point. I haven't touched the game seriously since before Xmas. (To the point I've had it uninstalled since March.)

Instead you now toss this half-assed attempt out at the start of a season for your own "World Championship". Why?
Also why the hell did it take two weeks to 'give in' to the community to toss up the PTS?

Never Mind, I know why. Its PGI's motto. Abuse an IP till its nothing but a pit for whales, and screw the normal customer.

Edited by Velocikitty, 27 June 2018 - 02:33 AM.

[aardappelianen]

How about instead of ghost heat on weapon groups you make it so that high alphas hurt your heat dissipation rates or are actually capable of damaging your heatsinks

Lets say an assault with the 10 mandatory heatsinks has an alpha "cap" of 50, if it want to alpha 60 damage it'll take 10% longer to cooldown if it wants to alpha 70 damage it take like 15% longer and your heatsinks start taking damage
Adding more heatsinks should effectively raise your alpha cap but not so much that you can alpha 94 damage without stressing your heatsinks

Make it so that high alphas are not impossible just way more riskier

Sorry if this has been mentioned before

[Fuerchtenichts]

Perhaps you can employ Sean Spicer for these kind of annoucements. At least that would have style...

[denAirwalkerrr]

aardappelianen, on 27 June 2018 - 02:36 AM, said:

How about instead of ghost heat on weapon groups you make it so that high alphas hurt your heat dissipation rates or are actually capable of damaging your heatsinks

Lets say an assault with the 10 mandatory heatsinks has an alpha "cap" of 50, if it want to alpha 60 damage it'll take 10% longer to cooldown if it wants to alpha 70 damage it take like 15% longer and your heatsinks start taking damage
Adding more heatsinks should effectively raise your alpha cap but not so much that you can alpha 94 damage without stressing your heatsinks

Make it so that high alphas are not impossible just way more riskier

Sorry if this has been mentioned before

Then we’ll be able to build 120-150+ damage one alpha builds who won’t die from that alpha.

[aardappelianen]

denAirwalkerrr, on 27 June 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

Then we’ll be able to build 120-150+ damage one alpha builds who won’t die from that alpha.

Sure but if a mech could do that only once and then have its heatsinks melted so it could only fire one laser at a time from that moment on then i think thats fine