657 replies to this topic

[Shadowomega1]

MiZia, on 03 July 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

There is the problem, fights r won even before getting on field. Build properly and u will c that a WHM with laservom vs can shoot 3 52 alphas w/o shot before overheat whereas a HBR can shot 2 64s followed by 4 mlas before overheat on avrg heat map. its 156 vs 156 dmg.
Same for anni vs Dire/DS.
If u nerf one side only u create even more imbalance.
As mostly FP player ill just switch to IS and enjoy my even more powerful Machines.

This is why I am against nerfing one side or weapon type. If they want to put a big hit on Massive Alphas then they need to cut out what allows for massive alpha's, the broken heat system. Remove heat capacity from Double Heat Sinks, as well as remove heat capacity nodes from the skill tree, and set max heat capacity to 35 if it isn't already. Next Boost up heat dissipation on Double Heat Sink from .15 to either .26 (x2 currently buffed Heat dissipation of .13) or to .3.

This should give a great base to start from for future improvements.

[Shaggath]

MiZia, on 03 July 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

There is the problem, fights r won even before getting on field. Build properly and u will c that a WHM with laservom vs can shoot 3 52 alphas w/o shot before overheat whereas a HBR can shot 2 64s followed by 4 mlas before overheat on avrg heat map. its 156 vs 156 dmg.
Same for anni vs Dire/DS.
If u nerf one side only u create even more imbalance.
As mostly FP player ill just switch to IS and enjoy my even more powerful Machines.

How better dissipation with more stuff can be under ...
The nerf is a rebalance less raw damage same dps.
Even without h laser you can do the same with better dissipation less tonnage.
We are stuck in a stupid meta.
Because of this you can't see you have other weapon who have less tonnage then her counterpart , at the end the final loadout is in all case better.


Like WHM i can shoot 5 50+ alpha before overheat with all clan mech ...... i just use laser and ballistic incredible.
If i use 2Lbx 20/2ermed/2LMG i can do build where i never overheat really amazing.
On clan lot of build are unexplored because laser are just too good and drive the meta.

1+1=2 Jean claude approved.

Edited by Shaggath, 03 July 2018 - 04:36 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Shadowomega1, on 03 July 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

This is why I am against nerfing one side or weapon type.

everyone has to stop looking at this as a Nerf to the Weapon system,
PGI already said they would reduce Damage and improve the weapons other stats,

this may be a nerf to Alpha gameplay, but if it comes with a duration/cooldown/heat reduction i dont see a problem,
if Clan lasers maintain the same (Damage/Heat)(Damage/Duration)(Heat/Sec)(Damage/Sec) i dont see a problem,
nothing PGI has said suggests that they will just reduce damage and leave all other stats,

[Ensaine]

So... when is the PTS?

[Skippynibble]

We talk so much of Alpha and Lasers being over power but maybe … just maybe...that does not matter. Assault Mechs with huge Alpha are to be feared they are to be the recking balls of the battle field. Why should we just turn them into a run of the mill medium mech... sad...sad...sad... Remember we want to have fun, and why is this game fun … … … because of diversity. We need to make sure that every play style has a chance. This is not an IS vs Clan topic but a what roll and how viable topic.

Currently most items have their rolls but we need to keep in mind what these rolls are and tailor the statistics to these rolls.

I believe the maps are good...the mechs are good...the weapons are ok to good...we need a more diverse set of game modes and faction play to be more inline and immersive to draw people into the experience.

In general I don't think we should focus on alphas … all we will do is hurt the assault mechs and why would we want to hurt something we love...

I think play styles and diversity is where we should spend our time...

Best Regards...
Sir Potato … Skippynibbles

PS. A Paul Warhorn saying "Nerf" would be AWESOME!!!!!! … I have money my wife does not know about!!! Please!!!

[Shadowomega1]

Andi Nagasia, on 03 July 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

everyone has to stop looking at this as a Nerf to the Weapon system,
PGI already said they would reduce Damage and improve the weapons other stats,

this may be a nerf to Alpha gameplay, but if it comes with a duration/cooldown/heat reduction i dont see a problem,
if Clan lasers maintain the same (Damage/Heat)(Damage/Duration)(Heat/Sec)(Damage/Sec) i dont see a problem,
nothing PGI has said suggests that they will just reduce damage and leave all other stats,

So taken a 7 damage weapons to 6 damage weapon that can fire a total of 6 weapons before hitting ghost heat will reduce the damage by a grand total of 6 damage, and by lowering ERLL from 11 to 10, or HLL from 18 to 16 you bring down that 94 point alpha down to 86 or 84 big whoop. It is still a massive removal of armor.

By bringing down heat to a locked 35 you hit the massive alpha far harder, without hurting mechs that can't mount many weapons. With the improved cooling I also had in that post those mechs will see a far better sustainable fight opposed to poke - cool, poke - cool.

[Reno Blade]

The big issue with the "laser alpha" (or alpha in general) is not the sheer power of the dmg dealt.
It's the fact that it makes all other builds feel gimped.

We need to have weapons where the tonnage investment is worth it compared to massive laser+DHS boating.
You will not find many people playing with UAC20s.

And on top, all builds are boating up to their GH limit as much as possible.
This leaves builds with less number of equal weapons left behind -> this is especially true for IS mediums that can't boat enough laser/missiles.

[Rizzi Kell]

So you realy whant to nerf things? NERF ******* LRMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nothing else, if it goes like it is now i will not prowide you with any more Money PGI!!! just watch your game or better play that!!!
Even the Twitchers are making jokes About YOU! If you do not beleve that, just watch Gamers like Proton etc if you have not the time to Play your f...ing game. THERE is NO TACTIC against MASSIVE LRM, you buffed Velocity AND AMUNITION!!!! with the more Velocity even a tribble AMS does not have ANY effect (sure i have Matches witch 500+ taking down Missles but if you got 2k+ what is the sense of AMS?). You whant to raise up the time to kill? that was the wrong way.
I´m so upset about your balancing, that i have not enough words to tell you how angry I´m about you!!! If you are CRAZY enough to use LASER-AMS you are in perma overheat, so no need for flamers any more…
Check my payments, i think I was not the worst suporter of you company

Edited by Rizzi Kell, 04 July 2018 - 12:16 PM.

[Leon Ward]

So seriously! You want to kill the last good weapons of the Clans and now thanks to your LRM and AMMO buffs you are destroying your own game ..... gz

LRM Online I'm in no mood to enjoy the fall MWO

Edited by Lance-a-Lot, 04 July 2018 - 01:26 PM.

[MiZia]

Shadowomega1, on 04 July 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

So taken a 7 damage weapons to 6 damage weapon that can fire a total of 6 weapons before hitting ghost heat will reduce the damage by a grand total of 6 damage, and by lowering ERLL from 11 to 10, or HLL from 18 to 16 you bring down that 94 point alpha down to 86 or 84 big whoop. It is still a massive removal of armor.

By bringing down heat to a locked 35 you hit the massive alpha far harder, without hurting mechs that can't mount many weapons. With the improved cooling I also had in that post those mechs will see a far better sustainable fight opposed to poke - cool, poke - cool.

What would 35 heatcap do to an 2hgr 5 mpl anni? (remember 2 heat hgr 4 heat mpl...) well i love my annis

[Shadowomega1]

MiZia, on 04 July 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

What would 35 heatcap do to an 2hgr 5 mpl anni? (remember 2 heat hgr 4 heat mpl...) well i love my annis

That build is quite range limited, slow af, heavy even on an assault, ammo limited, and likely not many DHS or HS to cool down as quick as another build.

@Reno UAC20s don't see much use due to the damage per ton of ammo, high jamming chance, short range and Ghost Heat makes the UAC20s on both IS and Clan lackluster. Currently UAC 10s have more damage per ton of ammo, longer range, less jamming chance and better ghost heat. Infact UAC 10s, AC 10, LB-10X has been the best in class ballistic weapons since MW3.

[Tesunie]

Shadowomega1, on 04 July 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Infact UAC 10s, AC 10, LB-10X has been the best in class ballistic weapons since MW3.

Not entirely true. In MW4 when I played online, CERLLs where the best laser weapon in the game (and best weapon), but the best AC was the AC20. AC20 Shadowcat did well. Of course the game seemed to favor "go heavy or go home", so seeing a medium mech was rare.

In this game, the AC10 was considered so bad for so long, they had to buff them over AC20s and remove triple range for ballistics before they became better than AC20s. Before hand, you could take an AC20, shoot it at AC10 range and deal the same damages as an AC10, making you never want to touch an AC10.

Ah. The game has really gone a long way since 2012...

[MiZia]

Shadowomega1, on 04 July 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

That build is quite range limited, slow af, heavy even on an assault, ammo limited, and likely not many DHS or HS to cool down as quick as another build.

@Reno UAC20s don't see much use due to the damage per ton of ammo, high jamming chance, short range and Ghost Heat makes the UAC20s on both IS and Clan lackluster. Currently UAC 10s have more damage per ton of ammo, longer range, less jamming chance and better ghost heat. Infact UAC 10s, AC 10, LB-10X has been the best in class ballistic weapons since MW3.

U didnt answer my question... the answer would be... nothing. Even with lower cap and better HS it could do its 80 alpha at least 2 times and then continue with the hgr.
So why should i instead take Clan Mechs when they will not be able to do the same amount of dmg in an alpha while not having such low duration laser and Armor/Structure to better protect me?
Either Both tech Basis have to be brought down to DPS styles which means low duratio/heat also for Clan or u will cut off this playstile entirely.
Btw u r right on the range...but a Dire also does only 48 kph and 7.5tons of ammo for dual hgr is plenty.

Edited by MiZia, 05 July 2018 - 01:22 AM.

[Shaggath]

[Redacted] 2hg have big drawback only few shot (7 bullet per ton with skill) work on few model (And only two anni and sleipnir can really use this) with low range, for a 40 top speed because you can only put standard engine.
Clan laser alpha work for all class.
In a fight you can see max 4 big slow mech with that on the field in reality most of time 0.

It's the execption that prove the rule and you only argument.....
And you easely forgot omnimech have quirk too.
And duration is also tweak down.
They keep the same weapon attribute point and reduce damage so automatically heat cd and duration are up.
[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 05 July 2018 - 01:16 PM.
unconstructive

[Rizzi Kell]

Muhaaa.... the 94(None Pinpoint!) Alpha build works only on two builds too... ever tryed that build? it is warm as hell, even if you got your coolshot after your first Alpha, the long recharchtime of the HLL is much slower then the recharche of the 2HGR+5MPL(Nearly Pinpoint!) build, you can easy survive the 94 Alpha with twisting, but the 50 Points dmg from HGR is Pinpoint!
or as mentiont before, just take LRM 90 Alpha(None Pinpoint) on a MADDOG.(without any Lasers)...

[MiZia]

Shaggath, on 05 July 2018 - 03:22 AM, said:

[Redacted] 2hg have big drawback only few shot (7 bullet per ton with skill) work on few model (And only two anni and sleipnir can really use this) with low range, for a 40 top speed because you can only put standard engine.
Clan laser alpha work for all class.
In a fight you can see max 4 big slow mech with that on the field in reality most of time 0.

It's the execption that prove the rule and you only argument.....
And you easely forgot omnimech have quirk too.
And duration is also tweak down.
They keep the same weapon attribute point and reduce damage so automatically heat cd and duration are up.
[Redacted]

Dude pls just learn to use mechlab better.....
7.5 Tons r 1300 dmg at optimal, w/o counting what the mpl can do...tell me when in a QP match u reach those numbers.
Also 48.6 is the speed a Dire can reach, the DS may go 60ish, those r the builds capable of 94 alpha.
AND they MAY touch heat and duration. Its not a SURE thing.

Ah on sidenote...do u know Victors or Thanatos? Mauler maybe? LEARN to MECHLAB pls.

Edited by draiocht, 05 July 2018 - 01:23 PM.
Quote Clean-Up

[MechaBattler]

I've only had a chance to skill out my Huntsman hero and play a bit with my Virago. I want to say that for mechs without the optimal weight to slot space, lasers are more of a challenge. But for mechs with the right ratio. You're vomitting so much damage that even if they twist. You're still crippling their ability to surive. It's akin to missile quirked mechs with huge MRM loadout. Doesn't matter that it's not all going to the same place because it's a FAT amount of damage.

I just wonder if improving the heat and duration might not make it more viable for less optimal clan mechs.

[Shaggath]

MiZia, on 05 July 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

Dude pls just learn to use mechlab better.....
7.5 Tons r 1300 dmg at optimal, w/o counting what the mpl can do...tell me when in a QP match u reach those numbers.
Also 48.6 is the speed a Dire can reach, the DS may go 60ish, those r the builds capable of 94 alpha.
AND they MAY touch heat and duration. Its not a SURE thing.

Ah on sidenote...do u know Victors or Thanatos? Mauler maybe? LEARN to MECHLAB pls.

[Redacted] take a paper launch a game and put a 1 cross each time you see 2 Hgauss build, make an other column put a cross each time you see a clan vomito now take a calculator and count [Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 05 July 2018 - 01:26 PM.
unconstructive

[Grus]

Andi Nagasia, on 28 June 2018 - 05:47 PM, said:

um just so you know, Chris plays MWO allot, some his PGI account, but much more so on his Alt,

Gonna call bs.. haven't seen him in game to pop since beta...

I've seen Shawn Lang more...

[Grus]

Side note. Didnt one of the devs have a alt named the sheriff?