657 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Clan Ballistics need some love. However this PTS seems focused on CGauss+CLasers. Let's try to stick to that.

[Reno Blade]

Lol guys, you are over reacting and I can't decide if i want to laugh or cry...

Gauss Recoil less than HG breaking the game... are we playing the same game?
It will not even have ANY effect on the builds.

Either you fire your laser vomit like 0.2 sec after the Gauss, or you fire the Gauss when the Lasers are nearly done.
Oh, beam duration vs twisting you say? ...

...thats the goal here!
spreading out the huge Gauss+Laser alphas!


And don't tell me that a 3x ERML + Gauss medium will be unplayable with that.
Laughable.


I'd say, the Recoil should be used for all Ballistics (including IS).

While the Laser DMG nerf is a good step, I think we need also to link Large+Med lasers for both Clan and IS mechs!

[Smutty]

All I wanted for my birthday was a tidy balance pass with weapon buffs across the board, and maybe some Direwolf armour quirks as a cherry on top

Instead I'm getting a potential assassination of another playstyle

Look I roll IS and I don't much care for the Clan Gaussvomit nonsense you see dredging bads for easy points, but for the love of God why don't you all consider improving other methods of fighting?

I think many outspoken community members have already asked for some buffs to staunch the un-funning of MWO, but if a scrublord like me understands how bad of a decision this is, that should be cause for some concern

[Navid A1]

Reno Blade, on 26 June 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

Lol guys, you are over reacting and I can't decide if i want to laugh or cry...

Gauss Recoil less than HG breaking the game... are we playing the same game?
It will not even have ANY effect on the builds.

Either you fire your laser vomit like 0.2 sec after the Gauss, or you fire the Gauss when the Lasers are nearly done.
Oh, beam duration vs twisting you say? ...

...thats the goal here!
spreading out the huge Gauss+Laser alphas!


And don't tell me that a 3x ERML + Gauss medium will be unplayable with that.
Laughable.


I'd say, the Recoil should be used for all Ballistics (including IS).

While the Laser DMG nerf is a good step, I think we need also to link Large+Med lasers for both Clan and IS mechs!

Reading you suggestions and opinions made me realize that being worse than Chris is possible.

[kenosha]

Here’s a better laser nerf to try on PTR: get rid of cool shot.

Or, add a ammo resupply drone consumable that gives you ammo when used.

Yes, that would be a dumb idea and thats why Cool Shot is also dumb...

[Fobhopper]

Imperius, on 26 June 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

Yup, not coming back to this game. Officially dead for me. I jumped off the ship because this captain has no idea of what FUN is. Literally killing off all the play styles. I found another island though.

Now what exactly are they killing for you? lack of context means nothing.

94 damage alpha may be fun to you, but instantly losing a torso or getting cored is not fun for whoever is on the receiving end. Especially when there is a damage disparity as significant as there currently is between IS and Clan. Toaster playstyle was nerfed because of alpha striking and lack of response from whoever was on the receiving end. There is always going to be a disparity between clan and freeborn, but we can look at the previous tukayyids, and Solaris meta mechs to see that there are significant balance issues between factions. I am not calling for perfect parity between the two, but something clearly needs to be done to tighten up the disparity of factions.

[Cy Mitchell]

MischiefSC, on 26 June 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

So HGauss is okay with recoil because the HGauss is the bulk of the firepower. I would say single HGauss needs no recoil as well because there's already no real single HGauss builds that are viable.

So how about only small recoil on dual gauss (CGauss, HGauss but not regular IS Gauss?) but no recoil on single CGauss/HGauss? Hgauss damage is offset by huge size requirement, big tonnage and short range. It doesn't need recoil on singles with it.

That sound more reasonable?

I would be happy with a certain level of recoil on all ballistic weapons that adds as you boat them. As usual boating is the problem not the individual weapons. If they attach some recoil to each weapon and the more weapons that are fired at the same time the more recoil effects you get then maybe they could revisit the UACs and fix the Jam mechanics that killed UACs unless you boat them.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Hey guys we have problems with C-MG boating lights being too op compared to others. How we solve it?

MG shake.

[MischiefSC]

So how about a 30pt threshold for ballistic damage to start a small recoil? Then otherwise buff ballistics?

However, again, we're swerving off topic here. For Cgauss how about a small recoil for 2 of them?

[kenosha]

Rampage, on 26 June 2018 - 11:32 AM, said:

I would be happy with a certain level of recoil on all ballistic weapons that adds as you boat them. As usual boating is the problem not the individual weapons. If they attach some recoil to each weapon and the more weapons that are fired at the same time the more recoil effects you get then maybe they could revisit the UACs and fix the Jam mechanics that killed UACs unless you boat them.

Increase the ammo explosion chance every time the same ammo is added to a mech. This puts risk into boating only one weapon and gives people a nudge that they should diversify their load out.

[Tiyos]

Thanks Chris for going to a PTS instead of a sudden patch announcement. That will definitely be more beneficial. Can we have an incentive for players to go on the PTS? As of right now(to my knowledge) there is no current incentive for players to go on the PTS.

Perhaps the cbills they earn on the PTS could be transferred to their main account? Or maybe some MC as a reward for assisting? Free mech of their choice? I'm just listing off ideas. Point is, a lot of players don't feel the need to play on a PTS and some incentive would go a long way to get more people involved.

[Cy Mitchell]

MischiefSC, on 26 June 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

Clan Ballistics need some love.

If Chris is reading then I will never miss an opportunity to plead that case. Yes, fix Clan laser vomit but fix Clan ballistics too to give us something else to use reliably.

[GweNTLeR]

By the way, why dont you just implement ENERGY DRAW mechanic?Give it another try! It would solve ALL alpha strike problems and give people opportunity to choose between alpha strike and damage spread.
Most of the stuff of this mechanic was already implemented anyway
KDKs dont use 4UAC10 any more - GH was added.
LPL damage is down to 10.
PPC+GAUSS combo is nerfed - GH was added.
It just perfectly fits the modern MWO reality.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 26 June 2018 - 11:51 AM.

[MechaBattler]

It would go a long way toward filling up the PTS if people recieved a bonus to their main account for participating. People want to keep their sense of "Feeling powerful". So a good chunk will not be participating out of spite. And of course there's people that simply can't because they don't have the hard drive space or want to use the bandwidth to download the PTS.

[Hydrocarbon]

The guass change is very confusing, you guys already destroyed the Night Gyr's main poptarting build (you know, the heavy that moves at assault speed?) with the ERPPC heat linking crap. I went from 5 mechs using gauss to just ONE after that...how is it still terrifying? It's really just the MK2 that's left "boating" it.

What about dual heavy gauss IS mechs? They exist and have a far more powerful pinpoint damage than any clanner can do (re: heatlinking).

What about the crappier clan mechs that can't fit anything but lasers? Anyone see a Viper lately? It's one thing to pigeon-hole a mech with focused quirks, but it's FAR WORSE to do that with weapon nerfs. The only thing left for the Timbie will be SRM's, and it's mobility is so far gone that brawling is laughable.

It's too bad you can't apply your nerfs by Tier rating of matches. Then you could give the T5's the clan nerfs they crave and give back T1 every nerf they lamented (that is to say, every nerf).


The UNFUNNING of MWO continues...

[Aerowind]

MischiefSC, on 26 June 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

Back in the golden days before Clans were released a 40-50pt alpha was BIG. It was a dangerous, potentially broken mech. 2xAC20 and 2xGauss builds were considered high firepower, high risk. Now we're at a point where 64 is a mediocre alpha. Not great but if it's got great range or high DPS you can make it work. Actually rolling back the last 4 years of power creep would be a literal 50% reduction in firepower; I don't think that's what's going on here.

At release Clan weapons were stupidly OP. Every time they get dialed back everyone says it ruins everything and makes it no fun - however if you tried to roll Clan weapons back to their release stats you'd get a firestorm of rage. If you then buffed IS weapons into the stratosphere to match them and it was largely 1 or 2 shots to kill anyone/everyone by anyone/everyone people would scream again.

There's absolutely stuff that needs buffs. lots of ballistics, a couple lasers, some missile options that need buffs. IS FF needs buffs, honestly IS Endo and IS XL need buffs.

However some other stuff needs nerfs. The CGauss 0 health thing is a crappy balance mechanic and needs removed but are we saying the CGauss is the standard to which all other weapons need raised?

I think you're ignoring that there's all around more armor now too. Armor quirks + skill tree is quite a large boost to survivability. Hell, I've got lights that can tank that 50 damage alpha you're talking about and still have some armor.

Edited by Aerowind, 26 June 2018 - 11:54 AM.

[Smutty]

GweNTLeR, on 26 June 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

By the way, why dont you just implement ENERGY DRAW mechanic?Give it another try! It would solve ALL alpha strike problems and give people opportunity to choose between alpha strike and damage spread.
Most of the stuff of this mechanic was already implemented anyway
KDKs dont use 4UAC10 any more - GH was added.
LPL damage is down to 10.
PPC+GAUSS combo is nerfed - GH was added.
It just perfectly fits the modern MWO reality.

ay my man be careful soon they'll give ghost heat for having more than one leg moving at a time (^:

[Chatin The Skunk]

These high alpha builds are simply not sustainable, easily countered and generally fit a particular player and play style... These are not a problem.

I RARELY see one of these builds and most of the time when I do they overheat, panic, or get overrun during their cool down. I've only seen a handful that are potentially able to use it.

At some point too much balance equals boredom. When everyone does the same damage regardless of build or mech... what is the point?

Personally I don't see a point to nerfing damage... if anything the easiest solution would be to adjust heat ratios.... or the harder approach would be to buff IS weapons to be able to better counter it. There are a lot of IS weapons that lack compared to their clan counterpart... You could say this is because 'clan is newer' but if that's an argument then why nerf clan weapons? Would the better option be to buff IS weapons? Increase DPS, lower heat, buff damage?

I mean things like ATMs are broken as **** imo when utilized properly, but I don't complain about it because they are rarely utilized right. Meanwhile MRMs are slow as ****, spread like crazy and generally are useless at the range they are meant for.... yet I continue to pump out 1000k damage matches with MRMs....

Meh.

[Reno Blade]

Navid A1, on 26 June 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

Reading you suggestions and opinions made me realize that being worse than Chris is possible.

Yes it is possible

Tell me, what is wrong with GH of Large+Med lasers (or even using Energy Draw)?
We already have SRMs max at 4x and MRMs max at 2x30 and sharing the GH.
We already have Gauss+PPC sharing GH maxing at 2x.
We already have Small+Med lasers sharing a GH group to prevent a 6+6 (or whatever) combo.
So why not add Large+Med Lasers which is the only outlier combo currently?


I believe that people QQing about nerfs and demanding buffs are just power hungry.
This is a PVP game where the targets get frustrated if they get one-shot without even having a chance to react, not a PVE game with AI bots to pulverize in seconds.

If you want to play CS, COD, Unreal Tournament, or Quake to oneshot people, please don't try to get a Mechwarrior game to do the same!
I want to have long battles with tons of fire, twisting and manouvering... something I can currently only get with stock Mediums, because everything else is too strong. There you have it, that's my personal goal.


Now I've not seen any improvement for overall balance NOR for longer TTK from the "stop nerf, buff this..." posts yet.
And nobody seems to understand that this is the same as this:
1. 80% of the weapons are below the top 20%, so you nerf the top 20% down to the same level as the rest
2. 80% of the weapons are below the top 20%, so you buff the 80% to get as strong as the top 20%
The only difference is power creep on nr2!

So my suggestion is trying to focus on Nr1, same as the overall direction of Chris/Paul, even if that means most people dislike the direction (because Nerfs are bad, yo).

[Stinger554]

Navid A1, on 26 June 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

Spreadsheet build to the core... That build is not sustainable or effective at all... even if we ignore the ocean of limitations that come with the direwolf.

Oh it's effective, just not sustainable alpha twice then you got to wait. Would you prefer the variant that uses ERLL?

But compare it to that ANH build which is better(disregarding armor quirks)? The one where you get 89-ish damage at 270 meters or the one where you get 94-ish at 400 meters...taking range skills into consideration 350-ish meters versus 500-ish meters. Should I mention max ranges and how the DIrewolf build is capable of dealing more damage at max ranges versus that ANH build?

I think I've made my point.