41 replies to this topic

[DjPush]

QP matches for 12 man teams are severely limited by tonnage. I get that your pseudo balance overlord thought it might be a good idea to limit the strength of a 12 man team by reducing the tonnage they are allowed to bring. However, a hand full of lights and mediums accompanied by one or two heavies and assaults is ridiculous. Especially when the enemy team always has 5 or 6 assaults and the rest heavies and mediums.

There should be enough tonnage for at least 3 of the heaviest in each class or go with a 3-3-3-3 restriction for a 12 man.

Edited by DjPush, 29 June 2018 - 08:16 PM.

[Dragonporn]

Can you please specify if you mean solo QP or group QP?

I have no experience with group QP, but from my personal observation of solo queue, tonnages have no restrictions (or they are very "wide"), as I often see matches with 6-8 Assaults per team, and in general, tonnage per team seems rather equal. I don't remember ever going with mostly Assault/Heavy outfitted team against more Lights or Mediums on the other side...

[oneproduct]

What does your win rate look like when you play in 12 mans? Just curious how close it is to 50/50.

If a 12 man can bring 3 of each of the heaviest in their weight class, I assume they'd win far too often vs an unorganized team.

[Anastasius Foht]

No they fine and still murderballing almost any non 12 mans team

[Jay Leon Hart]

DjPush, on 29 June 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

There should be enough tonnage for at least 3 of the heaviest in each class or go with a 3-3-3-3 restriction for a 12 man.

So how often are you losing that you feel the need for more tonnage? Are you sure being a slower, easier to hit target will even help you?

[Antares102]

DjPush, on 29 June 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

QP matches for 12 man teams are severely limited by tonnage. I get that your pseudo balance overlord thought it might be a good idea to limit the strength of a 12 man team by reducing the tonnage they are allowed to bring. However, a hand full of lights and mediums accompanied by one or two heavies and assaults is ridiculous. Especially when the enemy team always has 5 or 6 assaults and the rest heavies and mediums.

There should be enough tonnage for at least 3 of the heaviest in each class or go with a 3-3-3-3 restriction for a 12 man.

Firstly, a 12 man is supposed to coordinate and make up their tonnage disadvantage with that.
Secondly, the time of bringing rubbish mechs ends when you still want to win and play with a 6+ sized team.
Thirdly, a 12 man needs to also communiate BEFORE the drop and arrange mechs according to their strategy which mostly includes pushing the enemy.

Have you ever tried something like this drop deck for a 12 man?
8xAssassin
2xEbon Jaguar
2xOrion IIC (brawl)

or

6xPiranha (PIR-1)
1xArctic Cheetah
5xMad Cat MKII

Edited by Antares102, 30 June 2018 - 12:16 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

DjPush, on 29 June 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

QP matches for 12 man teams are severely limited by tonnage. I get that your pseudo balance overlord thought it might be a good idea to limit the strength of a 12 man team by reducing the tonnage they are allowed to bring.

inb4 "allow 12-mans in QP because think of the new players!"

[Davegt27]

DjPush, on 29 June 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

QP matches for 12 man teams are severely limited by tonnage. I get that your pseudo balance overlord thought it might be a good idea to limit the strength of a 12 man team by reducing the tonnage they are allowed to bring. However, a hand full of lights and mediums accompanied by one or two heavies and assaults is ridiculous. Especially when the enemy team always has 5 or 6 assaults and the rest heavies and mediums.

There should be enough tonnage for at least 3 of the heaviest in each class or go with a 3-3-3-3 restriction for a 12 man.

I see your points now all you have to do is find someone to listen

[TWIAFU]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 June 2018 - 11:20 PM, said:

So how often are you losing that you feel the need for more tonnage? Are you sure being a slower, easier to hit target will even help you?

If he is loosing in a 12man against a skirmish group, the problem is not in the tonnage.

[Mystere]

TWIAFU, on 30 June 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

If he is loosing in a 12man against a skirmish group, the problem is not in the tonnage.

Not all skirmish groups are alike.

[Stinger554]

While I understand your frustration, 12-mans already pretty much dominate the majority of their matches. They don't need more tonnage in order to win. In fact giving them more tonnage would likely be detrimental for everyone who drops against a 12-man.

Edited by Stinger554, 30 June 2018 - 07:41 AM.

[Prototelis]

Can be frustrating.

If you don't have people who are strong in various roles you are going to have a bad time.

My advice is to look up everyone on your team, make note of what classes they perform the best in. Ask them which mechs and playstyles they get the best results in within that class; profit. Fill that deck out and develop build synergy. Standardize calls, discuss strats, keep comms open.

Don't come into try hard mode and expect not to try as hard as the rest of us.

You need people who are really strong in the class they are playing. You don't shove your assaults dude in a light, or your lights dude in an assault and then hope to do well. If your assaults dude actually sucks at assaults make him ton down.

Above all that you need to work on putting your players into positions where they can do work.


In other words, y'all need more practice.

[HammerMaster]

Ya no. Drop smaller groups or tons.

[DjPush]

TWIAFU, on 30 June 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

If he is loosing in a 12man against a skirmish group, the problem is not in the tonnage.

Not everyone is a tryhard. Some us just like to group up with our friends and have a good time.

Edited by DjPush, 30 June 2018 - 10:19 AM.

[DjPush]

Antares102, on 30 June 2018 - 12:16 AM, said:

Firstly, a 12 man is supposed to coordinate and make up their tonnage disadvantage with that.
Secondly, the time of bringing rubbish mechs ends when you still want to win and play with a 6+ sized team.
Thirdly, a 12 man needs to also communiate BEFORE the drop and arrange mechs according to their strategy which mostly includes pushing the enemy.

Have you ever tried something like this drop deck for a 12 man?
8xAssassin
2xEbon Jaguar
2xOrion IIC (brawl)

or

6xPiranha (PIR-1)
1xArctic Cheetah
5xMad Cat MKII

That sounds really boring. Also, some of our friends don't have a huge mech selection and those that do are forced to play the same mechs over and over again to accommodate those players.

[DjPush]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 June 2018 - 11:20 PM, said:

So how often are you losing that you feel the need for more tonnage? Are you sure being a slower, easier to hit target will even help you?

A little bit less than 50/50. Just friends trying to have fun.

Edited by DjPush, 30 June 2018 - 10:45 AM.

[Nightbird]

PGI doesn't know how to balance large teams other than with tonnage, so of course the worse teams are forced to be smaller to have more tons.

[Jay Leon Hart]

DjPush, on 30 June 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/279182773

I think you need to play more Light 'mechs. From what I saw skipping around, your builds aren't terrible, but you stand still a lot and peak from the same place over and over vs multiple Assault 'mechs. That's just a bad time waiting to happen.

[Nameless King]

DjPush, on 30 June 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

A little bit less than 50/50. Just friends trying to have fun.

Then stop whining and continue having fun, nothing wrong with the way it is so no fix needed.

[x Deathstrike x]

DjPush, on 30 June 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Not everyone is a tryhard. Some us just like to group up with our friends and have a good time.

Then if its fun you want then DON'T complain about losing games....
What you really want is having fun (i.e. not working for your win) and still win.
Winning is about using the right loadout and coordinating with your team.
If you are a 12 man you have to do those two if you want to WIN.
If you want to have FUN then play what you want but don't complain about losing.

Anyway how high would you like the tonnage to be increased?
From 600 to 640? 660? 700?
Have you thought about how much you have to increase the tonnage of smaller groups as a consequence?
If 12 man have 700 then a 10 man need a tonnage increase as well.
This might finally lead to a 3 man having 300 tons giving a 2 man no advantage whatsoever.

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 30 June 2018 - 11:09 AM.