42 replies to this topic

[Marikhen]

Seems like ever since I hit Tier 2 I've gone from having most matches in Quick Play being roughly even to most matches being one side stomps the other. I've also gone from a roughly 1.0 win rate and 1.05 kill rate to much worse due to being constantly put on the side that gets stomped.

Just curious what's wrong with matchmaking now that wasn't happening a couple months ago.

Edited by Marikhen, 30 June 2018 - 08:16 PM.

[Phoenix 72]

The matchmaker is a bit wonky to put it mildly. I am still Tier3, although I am getting closer to T2. This season I had an average w/l and k/d rate of around 1.2 each. And I have rarely had even matches.

If I had to guess, I would say a minimum of 80% of my matches are stomps in one way or another.

The matchmaker produces some interesting quirks. For example, I cannot remember ever winning a match if I was playing on a Saturday between 7 and 8 am my time. I also have had days where I was being stomped 15 matches in a row. 0:15. That was frustrating. I guess the only way to change that is to either have the match maker rebuilt (which is not going to happen) or to get more people playing the game so (hopefully) the matchmaker will have a choice between more even skilled pilots...

[Koniving]

After a certain point, the game goes from try-hards that aren't all that good, the occasional one or two try-hards that are really good but not good enough to swing an entire match by themselves, and a bunch of people trying to have fun..... to nothing but try-hards that either actually are good or got there within months of starting due to starting from the beginning with try-hard builds and are now thrown into matches against people that actually know how to use and counter said try-hard builds, and so they're slaughtered.

While this is in part a joke, you're welcome to tell me how much truth you see in it as a new tier 2 player and you'll see why I went the other way as quickly as possible.

[Tarl Cabot]

What Koniving said at the end, --snip-- At least on his main account, it is his way of protesting PGI PSR setup, which definitely is not even close to be a zero-sum formula. That is, breaking close to even on wins/losses while averaging overall 190-200MS will move you up in tiers, slowly but you will move up.

Have you watched some of the MWOWC finals? Even with 8v8 and both sides running (within the rules) mechs that fits their playstyle/tactics, players who are actually communicating, many of those games were very lopsided, ie sharks to blood in the water.

With that said, a close game usually happens when both sides have made mistakes but neither following up on those mistakes. Where as the more players in a match who are able to bring it and know how to counter/capitalize on those mistakes (ie being aggressive) while bringing most of the team in on it, will slaughter the other team who missed capitalizing on a mistake, usually be not becoming aggressive enough as a team.

The important part of that is a team, using communication (best) and/or situational awareness (okay). If only one person attempts to move in on a mistake/advantage instead of most of the team, that one person may be his team's mistake, which then the other team, if they realize the mistake that was made and pushes, it may very well become a slaughter.

Thus, higher the tier, more players who know how to use and counter, while also being more aggressive. Unfortunately, with how PSR determine, which the MM only use weight class and PSR (have you see solo queue teams w/mismatched weight class?) the percentage of said players decreases, as well as those players who are willing to drop call.

Again, to stress, PSR movement is determined by PSR, with set thresholds with an emphasis on moving most players up out of Tier 5 (newbie land). There are long time players, due to playing on a real potato, health restrictions who are not able to maintain an average 190ish MS with an approx even w/l ratio who reside in Tier 5 or Tier 4. And think about it, there are only 5 tiers. Said tiers are not broken up into subsections themselves, and with current setup does leaves a vast range in abilities within each tier.

Again, Tier 2 and Tier 1 players are simply made up of players who either do okay and have played long enough to move up (age) but it does not necessarily makes them the best, and those who really are sharks in an average person pool, which they are definitely not at fault, considering PGI put them there.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 01 July 2018 - 06:28 AM.

[Dragonporn]

As soon as you hit each new tier post T4, you may notice some difference and at first it may seem like it got harder to get better results, but you will quickly adapt, and in reality, any one-sided matchmaking feeling you get is simply streak of bad luck for you. It usually doesn't last too long.

All in all, keep in mind that success much more depends on whole "team" effort rather than yourself. No matter how good you may be, there's very little to no chance of you carrying whole team on your shoulders. Just take it easy, treat it as good/bad luck matches and enjoy as much as you can.

[Phoenix 72]

In one of his videos, Baradul called MWO a snowballing game and I think he is spot on. Early kills can really skew the balance between teams, as does activity. I can sometimes call a game within two minutes reliably, even before a single kill has been made.

I had a match yesterday in River City where I just could not convince my team to move in. They kept hiding between the buildings and sniping. In Domination. We had 4 Lights and Mediums on point and the Heavies and Assaults in cover, sniping, allowing enemy Mechs to rotate in and out of combat so they took damage, but were not killed. I could call it at 1:0 for us that this wasn't going to end well. In the end, after losing our 4 sturdy defenders of the objective, I tried to lead a push for it, which exactly 1 other Mech followed. Died spectacularly, too.

[Horseman]

The problem you're discovering is that the tier rating is a function of playtime more than of player ability, and thus a lot of players end up in T1 just because they play a lot.

[Tarl Cabot]

Horseman, on 01 July 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

The problem you're discovering is that the tier rating is a function of playtime more than of player ability, and thus a lot of players end up in T1 just because they play a lot.

They play a lot and do just enough...

For the OP, to see the static numbers.

[Horseman]

Tarl Cabot, on 01 July 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

They play a lot and do just enough...

Semantics - the point is that the bar for "just enough" is so low and the score formula so focused on damage that most potatoes make it to T1 eventually anyway just by vomiting a mediocre amount of damage in the rough direction of enemies, it just takes them longer.

The result is that the matchmaker has a bucket that lumps together players ranging anywhere from 40th percentile of ranking upwards.

Edited by Horseman, 01 July 2018 - 10:45 PM.

[ClockworkDragon]

T5 potato here. I've found that if I just use lrms and spam from miles away, I get enough damage to get a middling match score, and get a huge bump to my rating. If I actually play a tactical build and work with the group, I'm often only scoring <300 dmg, and don't get a rise at all. This is doubly true if I end up with a team of potatoes. So... work solo with lrms and dont learn how to play, or struggle with crappy teams and watch potatoes rank up.

That said I've found a group to play with and in the months since coming back, have slowly rised in the ranks. Group qp isnt nearly as bad as solo qp. Solo qp is a crapshoot of badluck.

[Horseman]

Or work solo with a splat build (6x SRM-6 CPLT-A1 and the like) and utterly devastate several enemy mechs if you're careful enough about the time and location where you engage the enemy.

[Koniving]

Tarl Cabot, on 01 July 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

They play a lot and do just enough...

For the OP, to see the static numbers.

A thing to note is that the rise (and drop)also seems to be a non-solid number. That is to say a variable. Not necessarily a percentage but for some reason the more matches you have the smaller a "large" or "small" rise or drop gets. Compared to another account of mine in which I reached tier 2 fairly quickly using similar fun "heresy" builds, even when I do amazing (which isn't super common but pulling off a 300-400 match score happens often enough...) My tier bar barely moves. Get the same performance on the second account t with less than 400 matches and boom it takes off like a rocket!

It's not easy to go down...and is always inclined to go up. But the less you have done the easier it seems to be to get there.

[Phoenix 72]

ClockworkDragon, on 02 July 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

T5 potato here. I've found that if I just use lrms and spam from miles away, I get enough damage to get a middling match score, and get a huge bump to my rating. If I actually play a tactical build and work with the group, I'm often only scoring <300 dmg, and don't get a rise at all. This is doubly true if I end up with a team of potatoes. So... work solo with lrms and dont learn how to play, or struggle with crappy teams and watch potatoes rank up.

When I hit T3, there was a noticeable drop in my performance. I did less damage, died quicker and racked up lower scores than before. And I did not go the way of the lurm. Eventually, the lurm strategy will run into problems, because it will be less effective than in lower Tiers and if people do not have the skills to play another way, that will be a painful experience.

[Phoenix 72]

I am beginning to think matchmaking is breaking down, period.

I did around 16 matches today, I think. I am 3:13. Most of them are good hard stomps. The only thing that popped out to me is that whichever team has the most Warhawks usually loses. I am told this happens often on event days, but it's never been this bad. I usually thought the match maker was working okayish most of the time, but I have been playing in three segments and it's been the same every time. I am really really annoyed right now. After the last match I was about ready to throw some crap against the wall. My blood pressure is really through the roof.

If I do a crappy 400 damage in a Nova and after the game find out I am the top damage dealer on our side, with almost twice the damage dealt than the second best player, then something is going wrong.

[John Stryker]

I can generally predict the end result of a match by which side of a map I start on with 90% accuracy.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I think the changes done to MM can mean tier spacing is more thight, so if you got tier 1 you would be more often playing againts other tier 1s.

The actual changes done were relaxation of other rules in MM. For example the game won't try to take 3/3/3/3 so hard as before.

[Kubernetes]

Darakor Stormwind, on 01 July 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

In one of his videos, Baradul called MWO a snowballing game and I think he is spot on. Early kills can really skew the balance between teams, as does activity. I can sometimes call a game within two minutes reliably, even before a single kill has been made.

This is exactly correct. In a high level match with all true T1 players, most matches will end in 12-3 stomps or worse. A 12-11 advantage is huge in this game, especially if teams are good at cycling damaged mechs to the back, so if one guy goes down there's a large potential to start the snowball. Whenever you see a 12-11 end match score, it's usually because a whole bunch of potatoes fought in small groups and wore each other down through slow attrition.

Last night I had a match where 8 enemies died in less than 20 seconds. We were trading and trading, and finally one of their assaults went down; it opened up a firing lane, and suddenly all their damaged mechs got hosed down in quick order. A close 2-2 match became 10-2 in a blink of an eye.

Edited by Kubernetes, 13 July 2018 - 08:29 PM.

[Vlad Striker]

There is another factor: the builds. Skill is not only factor affecting on result. When opposite side have builds and chasis combination not suitable for chosen map then score can be 2 to 12 with ease. When you catch the bad wave just try to play another build or chasis.

[General Solo]

@OP
I felt similar when I first went T1 back when there was more players.

My advice, perverse and be observant.
Notice which players do good win or lose (1000 damage or many kill on a regular basis)
And then spectate them when they are on your team

Improved ma game

[Eisenhorne]

You need to be able to consistently do 700-800 damage to have a positive win/loss ratio in this game. The average player is *aggressively* bad, so much so that if you cannot effectively carry 2-3 players worth of dead weight minimum you cannot guarantee a win. Also, if you are capable of doing that much damage, it is imperative you do not ever push or "lead a charge". Your teammates are horribads. If you try to lead a push and charge, your teammates are generally too incompetent to follow and come with you. You'll end up dead, and the terribads on your team are just going to die. They are good enough to take bullets for you, that's about it. Make sure you use them as meat shields. Try to convince them to push to draw fire so you can take out enemies while they shoot your potatoes.