463 replies to this topic

[Obiwayne]

I bought 3 Piranha's yesterday and Im thrilled. Never liked light mechs, never played them much.

But the Piranha with all that hardpoints, it's speed, agility and it's hitboxes is different.

It seems to be a bit too much tbh. Kinda feels like op.

[Battlemaster56]

It's not op as you need to be aware of all around you and any descion would lead to you to be one shotted. Plus the 1 sucks in light to light combat compare to the 2 and 3.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 04 July 2018 - 09:18 AM.

[Obiwayne]

Yeah I know. A fart is enough to die. But with it's speed and especially it's small scale/hitboxes I'm usually able to stay alive pretty long and get out of trouble.
I have an AWF myself but compared to the Piranha you could call it sluggish. And it's considerably bigger.

[Sjorpha]

There really hasn't been any strong indications of the Piranha being OP. It doesn't produce abnormal scores, it doesn't dominate in any game mode and as far as I know it hasn't caused any upsets in the comp scene either.

[Bud Crue]

Well, it is out for c-bills now, so I suspect that even if it is over performing, it won't be for long. All of a sudden, there will be a monthly balance pass wherein it is concluded that the MG or LMG (whatever) is over performing relative to PGI's super secret internally established target values or perhaps they will find that the Piranha has agility in excess of is intended performance criteria, or some such nonsense that they were only able to determine now that the mech is available for c-bills.

(Btw: what does OP mean? Over performing relative to other 20 ton mechs? other lights? all mechs? other mechs with that many hard points? etc.)

[Obiwayne]

Bud Crue, on 04 July 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

(Btw: what does OP mean? Over performing relative to other 20 ton mechs? other lights? all mechs? other mechs with that many hard points? etc.)

Depends on the variant of course but the general reaction of enemy lights is running away.

Anyways, after a few more games I can now see it's weaknesses. A skilled player can take it out pretty easily when it slows down or gets stuck. Not to mention streak boats... 2 or 3 salvos is pretty much all it needs to get killed or at least loose a limb.

But on the other hand if I'm able to make good use of its agility I can pretty much outmaneuver any other mech except the kinds of Commando, Locust, ACT etc.. (most of which are not eager to 1on1 a Piranha).

Edited by EdSt0nE, 04 July 2018 - 03:54 AM.

[razenWing]

Sjorpha, on 04 July 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

There really hasn't been any strong indications of the Piranha being OP. It doesn't produce abnormal scores, it doesn't dominate in any game mode and as far as I know it hasn't caused any upsets in the comp scene either.

Lol, it hasn't caused any upsets in the comp scene because it's not eligible in comp scene yet. Do you know the de facto light mech this season? Myst Lynx with 8 MGs.

Next season, it will be pirahna. And teams will have to alter drastically by bringing streak rear guard. No other mech do you have to specifically prepare for just so that you dun get bump in the @ss. No one ever says "O, shoot, they might have an EBJ, you better bring a X to counter it." Nope, but PiR does. If that isn't OP, I don't know what is.

People kept saying how "well you can accidentally one shot it." That's a dumb@ss argument. Any mech can be one-shotted accidentally. But if your whole argument of defense is whether something has the capacity to absorb bullets, you are playing this game wrong.

The fact is, offensively, no other mech can go around shooting for 5 minutes straight of none stop 12 DPS. THAT'S why it's such a threat. No one complain about ACH, no one complain about locust. No one complain about the newly release flea, and it doesn't matter if anyone is like "o but I can beat a PiR-1 in any of those mechs" A well placed Pir-1 is enough to swing any games. A well placed anything else... no one really gives a crap, send a PiR-1 to deal with it.

[Abaddun]

RazenWing has a very good point. No one batted an eye at the Flea release despite the FLE-19 having almost comparable hardpoints, but the wave of vitriol the piranha inspires is a clear indicator that something is horribly wrong with that mech.

[razenWing]

And honestly, it doesn't matter if all those PiR defenders want to keep the status quo as if protecting some lost secret of the Atlantis so that they can continue farming people. Now that Pir is out for Cbill, every newb, free loader, and part timer is going to go out and get them. "O I've been farmed for 5 months straight by these little shat, time for me to get some pay backs!"

The gameplay with be flooded with them. Some that doens't play MWO well to begin with, will be one shotted "accidentally" all the time, those will be used as justification by the elitist players to justify why PiR is not OP. But again, doesn't matter, in about 1 month or less, when PGI see the flooded market with broken limbs from too much PiR-1 running around, they will overreact, and instead of nerfing PiR-1, they will nerf machine guns, thus effectively killing all other builds with 2-4 machine guns that's never OP to begin with.

Reference this post. My prediction will be 100% true. That's exactly how this will go down.

[Jonathan8883]

The pirhana came before the flea.

I got a PIR-1 MG boat yesterday. It is fun, but requires careful play to get within range. If spotted at long range, it dies quickly.
I also had to play with armor and energy weapon levels to get enough ammo. Having all weapons in the torso (except a couple of arm lasers) also means that it's got some problems face-hugging on non-level terrain.

[Brizna]

Piranha is not OP. It's a glass cannon which leads to it being perceived OP when a good piranha pilot eats for breakfast a bad assault player. GOOD Vs GOOD the assault has the advantage unless it's a lurmer or some other cringe-worthy build. Furthermore Piranhas do not offer any room for mistake, failed to notice that heavy mech on you flank -> DEAD, failed to notice that streak boat that saw you on radar one mile away and came for you as you skirmished -> DEAD, being on flanking movement and stumbling upon an enemy light with real weapons that can destroy armoured components -> DEAD, your enemy gets a lucky shot -> DEAD.

[Vellron2005]

Piranha is totally OP.. Next to the assassin and the newly introduced flea, it's the most annoying mech in the game right now..

I bought one yesterday too.. just to see what all the fuss is about.. it's fresh and unskilled, so also paper thin.. but with all the skills, it will probably truly be OP..

Edited by Vellron2005, 04 July 2018 - 04:50 AM.

[Ruccus]

With the increased number of Piranhas and Fleas on the battlefield I've found my splat Huntsman, Bushwacker P1, and Viper have been good at taking them out.

Generally if you're boating SRMs or are a fast medium (Viper, Ice Ferret, etc.) you should be able to cause a lot of trouble for them, but don't let them get a free pass at your assaults and slow heavies.

[Sjorpha]

razenWing, on 04 July 2018 - 04:15 AM, said:

Lol, it hasn't caused any upsets in the comp scene because it's not eligible in comp scene yet. Do you know the de facto light mech this season? Myst Lynx with 8 MGs.

Next season, it will be pirahna. And teams will have to alter drastically by bringing streak rear guard. No other mech do you have to specifically prepare for just so that you dun get bump in the @ss. No one ever says "O, shoot, they might have an EBJ, you better bring a X to counter it." Nope, but PiR does. If that isn't OP, I don't know what is.

People kept saying how "well you can accidentally one shot it." That's a dumb@ss argument. Any mech can be one-shotted accidentally. But if your whole argument of defense is whether something has the capacity to absorb bullets, you are playing this game wrong.

The fact is, offensively, no other mech can go around shooting for 5 minutes straight of none stop 12 DPS. THAT'S why it's such a threat. No one complain about ACH, no one complain about locust. No one complain about the newly release flea, and it doesn't matter if anyone is like "o but I can beat a PiR-1 in any of those mechs" A well placed Pir-1 is enough to swing any games. A well placed anything else... no one really gives a crap, send a PiR-1 to deal with it.

All I'm saying is that there is no current evidence of abnormally high performance, or if the is i haven't seen it.

If future comp play or other data produces such evidence I'll happily acknowledge whatever that proves, I just won't do it based on theorycrafting.

All I currently know is that the Piranha hasn't shown any signs of being overpowered in quickplay or Faction Play, if it turns out to strong in comp then that might warrant a nerf once that's firmly established.

[Weeny Machine]

It is a good mech but not op.

People are just upset because there is suddenly a light mech which they really need to pay attention to and because light mechs are supposed to be cannonfodder in their eyes...well, you get the picture...

[SFC174]

I love my PIR-1, but its feast or famine. The only thing it truly excels in is kill securing in the 2nd half of the match once mechs have been opened up.

Yes, I have good KDR and kill/match numbers in it, but I'm only averaging 300+ dmg or so, and my survival rate is dismal.

I can count the number of times I've been successfully backstabbed by a PIR in a fresh heavy or assault on one finger, and that was by an excellent player (proton) while I completely derped on my situational awareness and fell behind my team.

Worried about PIRs?

1) Run more than 4 pts of back armor on your heavy or assault. It'll give you that extra second you need to rotate.
2) Don't get caught alone. A leg humping PIR is easy fodder for your lance mate 100m away. Pay attention and stick with your team (shouldn't take the fear or PIRs to convince you of that)
3) Take arm weapons
4) Aim! The hitboxes on the PIR are decent, but it doesn't benefit from the magical dmg spreading that mechs like the ASN do. And it isn't as fast or agile as a LCT.

Frankly, I see mechs like the PIR (and perhaps the flea) as perfect antidotes to the long burn, high alpha clan laser meta. A lone HBR with only torso weapons and 1+ second burn duration lasers is food for a PIR. Rock paper scissors.

[DjPush]

Sjorpha, on 04 July 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

There really hasn't been any strong indications of the Piranha being OP. It doesn't produce abnormal scores, it doesn't dominate in any game mode and as far as I know it hasn't caused any upsets in the comp scene either.

You clearly have never played one nor against one. The machine gun as a weapon needs to be fixed not the Piranha. Light machine guns and Machine guns shouldn't do damage to mech armor. I would be fine with heavy MG's doing damage to mech armor but not the others. The MG damaging mech armor is a BS mechanic implemented a few years ago because the cryhards that don't play this game anymore said: "but.. but.. but.. MG's and Flamers need to be a thing." NO THEY DON'T! They are anti personnel weapons, not anti mech weapons. Do you see any people walking around?

[Dragonporn]

Recently noticed that while my AC/20 slug travels, PIR manages to kill up to 3 targets.

Edited by Dragonporn, 04 July 2018 - 06:28 AM.

[CarpTarts]

If a mech can change how all other mechs need to loadout perhaps there is something about the first mech, or its capabilities that needs to be examined.

I also think that LMG and MG should do no damage to armored components.

[Prototelis]

As predicted, those that cry the most were the first to saddle up and the first to learn it isn't easy to play. So many derps out yesterday that think face hugging and running straight at people actually works.

You don't need tons of back armor to deal with a PIR. It won't help you anyways because the burst dps with heavy smalls is so damn good. Start moving and start calling out to team mates. Mark the ****** with target spotting every chance you get.