463 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

ShiverMeRivets, on 21 February 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

If YOU don’t see it but everyone else does, perhaps you should consult an eye doctor (or an iDoctor, I am not sure anymore these days).

You dismiss every assult as being driven by a potato. I say that every 20 ton mech that gets one-shotted is being driven by another potato. The last surviving mechs on the losing team tend to be light mechs. The typical end scene of QP matches is 4 mechs clumsily stomping about while a spastic tiny mech is running between their legs for an extended period of time. Had it been an assault mech it would not have lasted 10 seconds in that situation. When the damage flying around is high, the most valuable armor is not getting hit at all. The stupid undersizing of the light mechs combined with impossible accelerations facilitates that.

Rescale light mechs appropriatly please.

Would be an interesting test to see which mech lasts longest running around in the open and in range of 3 or 4 opponents. My feeling is if both an atlas and a piranha are equally healthy the atlas would last longer. I think the hitpoints would win out over dodge. Of course it's possible there is a skill variable where the atlas goes down faster vs lower skilled players and the piranha goes down faster vs higher skilled players. Either way, would be a fun test.

In real games the reason why they can take a while to kill is because their speed lets them disengage and run off under cover. However if they're running off they're not shooting you (sniper builds aside). Once they're actually engaged and trying to shoot back, they go down pretty quickly.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Jman5, on 21 February 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

Would be an interesting test to see which mech lasts longest running around in the open and in range of 3 or 4 opponents. My feeling is if both an atlas and a piranha are equally healthy the atlas would last longer. I think the hitpoints would win out over dodge. Of course it's possible there is a skill variable where the atlas goes down faster vs lower skilled players and the piranha goes down faster vs higher skilled players. Either way, would be a fun test.

In real games the reason why they can take a while to kill is because their speed lets them disengage and run off under cover. However if they're running off they're not shooting you (sniper builds aside). Once they're actually engaged and trying to shoot back, they go down pretty quickly.

Honestly it would depend on at what ranges. If your talking running around 400m away in the open, yeah you might be right simply because it is easier to lead and track a fast target at greater distance so the light mech would be taking proportionally more damage per volley. If the ranges were inside of say 100m where the light could scamper around under the feet of those 3 or 4 opponents, then the scenario changes because it is very hard to track something at those speeds at shorter ranges. Also you come up hard against the physical limitations of your mech, things like turn rate, torso twist speed, torso and arm range of motion. For example, at close ranges most torso mounted weapons can't be brought to bear on the light mech at all because of the inability for them to depress far enough to hit the light mech. Coincidentally these are the ranges most effective light mech pilots tend to operate in and within good reason.

The straight up truth is that it is just damn hard to connect on a light mech. Laser volleys that would do 60-70 damage to the Annihilator in one go, do 4-5 damage to the light mech racing around at 150+ kph do to most people inability to keep the crosshair on a mech this fast moving evasively, dozens of Gauss, AC rounds or volleys of PPC fire just straight up miss, SRM volleys go just wide. Hell even streaks can be useless simply because by the time you actually have a lock, the light has already zipped between the legs of your entire team and has gotten in behind cover before you can fire. Basically to take out a light, your relying on 1 of 3 things to happen, you got lucky and connected solidly with a dual heavy gauss shot, your just that damn good at aiming that you could shoot out a flea's eye at 10m while it was running full speed or for the light to finally succumbed to death by 1000 cuts and that 1 damage your 70 alpha laser volley manage to do, knocks out a leg. Proportionally the amount of firepower thrown out at a light mech in an attempt to kill it is usually many times greater than what would be required to take out your average assault. I am talking raw potential damage here, i.e. the total amount of damage the weapons fire could do if it hit the target. Keep in mind that 99% of the damage thrown out actually hits the Atlas while your typical fast light might take only 5-10% of the fire as damage.

[InspectorG]

Angel of Annihilation, on 21 February 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

...

The straight up truth is that it is just damn hard to connect on a light mech. Laser volleys that would do 60-70 damage to the Annihilator in one go, do 4-5 damage to the light mech racing around at 150+ kph do to most people inability to keep the crosshair on a mech this fast moving evasively, dozens of Gauss, AC rounds or volleys of PPC fire just straight up miss, SRM volleys go just wide. Hell even streaks can be useless simply because by the time you actually have a lock, the light has already zipped between the legs of your entire team and has gotten in behind cover before you can fire. Basically to take out a light, your relying on 1 of 3 things to happen, you got lucky and connected solidly with a dual heavy gauss shot, your just that damn good at aiming that you could shoot out a flea's eye at 10m while it was running full speed or for the light to finally succumbed to death by 1000 cuts and that 1 damage your 70 alpha laser volley manage to do, knocks out a leg. Proportionally the amount of firepower thrown out at a light mech in an attempt to kill it is usually many times greater than what would be required to take out your average assault. I am talking raw potential damage here, i.e. the total amount of damage the weapons fire could do if it hit the target. Keep in mind that 99% of the damage thrown out actually hits the Atlas while your typical fast light might take only 5-10% of the fire as damage.

The trade off is that IF the light takes a hard shot, it likely dies outright(even with C-XL Engines - the speed loss and heat loss gimps you). The Atlas can eat some 60-70 damage shots, even if the pilot doesnt twist or use cover.

If lights were truly that powerful, all the scrubs in Solo would use them. Why use an Assault if you are just gonna get rearcored by an invincible Light?

The Light's evasiveness is a skill. You need to have the situational awareness to know where cover is in case you need to bail on a strafe, or a brawl goes bad, or...should the pilot actually look at the MinMap...see incoming Reds.

Where is the cover on Polar? Good pilots can find it, and light pilots NEED it at all times.

You seem to think it takes super great skill to hit a Light with Dual Gauss. Its not GREAT skill, just practiced skill, and how many players PRACTICE their aim? Vs moving targets? While they are also moving? How many players even warm up before casual play?
The average player doesnt even use the MinMap. Why should their aim be good?

If Lights were so flat out hard to hit, they would be the default savior to carry when you are on the receiving end of a stomp, correct?

Really good Light pilots can vulture and carry, thats a given.

How come the average player CANT if the mech they are using cant be hit? Aside from running out of ammo of course.

[Darian DelFord]

Most just don't get how difficult it is playing a light in today's environment. They much rather come here to the forums and attempt to get yet another nerf to lights instead of actually trying to improve their own game play.

[GeminiWolf]

Come on lets keep EdStone's last post going....he has since changed his name to OBIWAYNE and hasn't been active for a month! Come on his points are still valid I say!!!!

[Jman5]

Angel of Annihilation, on 21 February 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

Honestly it would depend on at what ranges. If your talking running around 400m away in the open, yeah you might be right simply because it is easier to lead and track a fast target at greater distance so the light mech would be taking proportionally more damage per volley. If the ranges were inside of say 100m where the light could scamper around under the feet of those 3 or 4 opponents, then the scenario changes because it is very hard to track something at those speeds at shorter ranges. Also you come up hard against the physical limitations of your mech, things like turn rate, torso twist speed, torso and arm range of motion. For example, at close ranges most torso mounted weapons can't be brought to bear on the light mech at all because of the inability for them to depress far enough to hit the light mech. Coincidentally these are the ranges most effective light mech pilots tend to operate in and within good reason.

Getting underneath a mech below their pitch is a potential problem in some 1v1 matchups. It's not feasible to simultaneously get under the pitch angle of multiple mechs. Once you move just a few meters away from facehugging, the pitch issue disappears.

If you all want to test TTK Atlas/Piranha vs 3-4 assaults (or w/e) I'd be down. I'd set it up simply in an open space arena. The mech walks in from 3-400 meters and then it's anything goes as long as he stays in LoS for the duration. (no running behind hills or buildings, but you can run behind enemy mechs) No lock on weapons, and no UACs (jam too random).

Edited by Jman5, 21 February 2019 - 05:34 PM.

[GeminiWolf]

Oh man, we almost lost this thread!

[General Solo]

Problems not lights its match maker
Here Ye Here Ye
Same old fix it before quick play dies too

Skill gap killed every thing else PGI
PAY ATTENTION

[General Solo]

and its simple
ignore complaints about Im not in T1 anymore and find the xml file and do this




Not perfect but with little effort an improvement
aka up down psr is the same loss or win

not I got carried to T1 by plaing a ka zillions games

Player progression is guid but not when it kills your game due to skill gap like FW and GQ

Outta breath

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 22 February 2019 - 06:21 AM.

[General Solo]

GeminiWolf, on 21 February 2019 - 11:06 PM, said:

Oh man, we almost lost this thread!

How you sneak in there lol

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 22 February 2019 - 06:22 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Darian DelFord, on 21 February 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

Most just don't get how difficult it is playing a light in today's environment. They much rather come here to the forums and attempt to get yet another nerf to lights instead of actually trying to improve their own game play.

I have never denied that it takes a degree of skill to play a light mech and honestly this is why in general only a few players gravitate to playing them but it should be pretty obvious to anyone who has played the game just how effective light mechs are in the game. I honestly feel they have the largest impact of any class if you want to get right down to it and I do get just as frustrated with players trying to underplay the performance capabilities of a light mech, as you probably do with people asking for a nerf to light mechs.

Myself, I only have issues with mass MGs and if they results in a indirect nerf to light mechs that rely on MGs, then so be it. For those mechs effected, the individual mech can be buffed up in other ways to compensate.

OZHomerOZ, on 22 February 2019 - 06:18 AM, said:

and its simple
ignore complaints about Im not in T1 anymore and find the xml file and do this




Not perfect but with little effort an improvement
aka up down psr is the same loss or win

not I got carried to T1 by plaing a ka zillions games

Player progression is guid but not when it kills your game due to skill gap like FW and GQ

Outta breath

Personally I think any sort of skill level match making should be removed and everything should just be random.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Angel of Annihilation, on 22 February 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

Personally I think any sort of skill level match making should be removed and everything should just be random.

Why do you want to beat up on Tier 4-5 players ? Anyone in the 90th percentile could probably take on 3-4 20th percentile pilots at the same time.

[GeminiWolf]

We must keep going with this irrelevant thread! because it's matters so much!

[YueFei]

Angel of Annihilation, on 22 February 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

I have never denied that it takes a degree of skill to play a light mech and honestly this is why in general only a few players gravitate to playing them but it should be pretty obvious to anyone who has played the game just how effective light mechs are in the game. I honestly feel they have the largest impact of any class if you want to get right down to it and I do get just as frustrated with players trying to underplay the performance capabilities of a light mech, as you probably do with people asking for a nerf to light mechs.

Myself, I only have issues with mass MGs and if they results in a indirect nerf to light mechs that rely on MGs, then so be it. For those mechs effected, the individual mech can be buffed up in other ways to compensate.

There's nothing wrong with massed MGs. They can be very very damaging. That doesn't make them overpowered.

If the Piranha pilot is a literal aimbot and going for my legs (so I can't twist his damage in between my own salvos), and I'm 50% accurate, I still put him in the dirt before he puts me in the dirt.

Honestly it's pretty fair. Yes, there's been times when I didn't manage to land 50% of my shots and I ended up dead. On the other hand, there's also been times when I managed to one-shot or two-shot the Piranha whilst taking minimal damage myself.

The thing to do is work on your aim. The Piranha can't actually dodge your shots in CQB.

You wanna see an example where a Light mech pretty much hard counters me, watch what happens when a Light mech pilot with medium-ranged weapons can abuse range and poke me to death outside of the effective range of AC20/SRMs.

At least with a Piranha, if he's engaging me, he's in range of my weapons envelope, too.

This game was pitched to us on the premise that it wouldn't be a matter of bigger==better. There's no reason to feel like you should have the advantage over another mech just because your mech is bigger.

[Antares102]

Angel of Annihilation, on 22 February 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

I have never denied that it takes a degree of Personally I think any sort of skill level match making should be removed and everything should just be random.

If we had respawn sure, but not when you only have one life.
Randomness is never a good thing when it comes to multiplayer.
Every other game has a real match maker based on some sort of skill system.
MWO is not the special snowflake here.

[Y E O N N E]

UT, Quake, Halo 1, OG Counter-Strike, Battlezone 1 & 2, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2, OG Battlefront, OG Battlefront 2 all did just fine without any sort of match-maker, to name a few. A match-maker is not strictly necessary for multiplayer.

[Antares102]

Y E O N N E, on 23 February 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

UT, Quake, Halo 1, OG Counter-Strike, Battlezone 1 & 2, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2, OG Battlefront, OG Battlefront 2 all did just fine without any sort of match-maker, to name a few. A match-maker is not strictly necessary for multiplayer.

And most of those have respawn or such short rounds and loading times that it doenst matter when you die.
In MWO if you die quickly you have to wait 10-15 minutes (including loading times) to move a mech once more.

[Darian DelFord]

Antares102, on 23 February 2019 - 10:28 AM, said:

And most of those have respawn or such short rounds and loading times that it doenst matter when you die.
In MWO if you die quickly you have to wait 10-15 minutes (including loading times) to move a mech once more.

Ummm, only if your playing on a Commodore 64

If I do die quickly I am playing another mech within 2 to 3 minutes.

[JediPanther]

Darian DelFord, on 23 February 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

Ummm, only if your playing on a Commodore 64

If I do die quickly I am playing another mech within 2 to 3 minutes.

I miss my C64. It was such a great game system. The ocean loader music was as fun as the games. Getting the emulators to work for it can be difficult. My dad was quite a pirate so I had plenty of games and their copy cats/clones. Unfortunately I forgot the disk drive was powered on and by morning it had burned out. That skate or die intro music still rocks.

[Antares102]

Darian DelFord, on 23 February 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

Ummm, only if your playing on a Commodore 64

If I do die quickly I am playing another mech within 2 to 3 minutes.

Hm yes.. just forgot that you obviously dont have to stay in game all the time because most of the time I die last and dont have to wait anyway.
Still sometimes even in solo Q you need 2 mintues to even find a game.

Edited by Antares102, 23 February 2019 - 11:29 AM.