463 replies to this topic

[Ssamout]

But they just run around!!! In circles!!!

*edit* And the machine guns!!

Edited by Ssamout, 12 February 2019 - 01:36 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Tommy Atkins, on 12 February 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

If you get two of them leg-humping you your match is over.

Or 2 HGauus 'mechs
Or 2 Gauss vomit 'mechs
Or 2 laser vomit 'mechs
Or 2 SRM boats
Or 2 dakka boats
Or 2 ...

You get the idea. 2 of almost anything will end your match, if all pilots are equally skilled & damaged.

[Antares102]

Tommy Atkins, on 12 February 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

Piranhas are game-breakingly OP, especially the MG ones -- I mean come on, twelve ballistic hardpoints? Nothing that small should be that fast and that tanky and have that much DPS. If you get two of them leg-humping you your match is over.

It's gotten to the point, even in the high-tier solo queue, that if I see the other team has Piranhas and we don't, I know we're going to lose, period. Add in lag and rubber-banding and Piranhas are effectively unkillable. Add skill point boosts and they're even worse. Even without quirks of any kind, PGI needs to nerf them in the worst possible way... if not remove them from the game entirely.

Two questions:
1.Have you ever played one yourself?
2.Why do good players have no trouble with them?

[thievingmagpi]

look, as I've said before, I agree that Piranhas certainly punch up but they certainly aren't gamebreakingly OP. They don't even approach pre-nerf uac40 kodiak OP.

What it does is exploit all the shortcomings of QP exceptionally well.

Assaults who can aim.

Proper builds.

Teamwork.

All of those things generally end a Piranha before it can get a dozen rounds off.

Don't get me wrong, I would probably thoroughly enjoy a 24-heavy/assault drop without ever having to worry about looking down.

I think a lot of players want to play rock-em-sock-em robots where a bunch of big metal bots stand here and punch each other until one drops, and I guess maybe in lore (lol I don't know any BT lore) lights are not really any threat to anything larger than them.

But this isn't BT lore. It's not ARMA with mechs (which would be fantastic tho). It's a shooter, and it's a team based shooter at that. There are fairly specific times during a match where piranhas swoop in, and usually from the same locations.

[K O Z A K]

Sometimes it feels like you people play a different game. I play piranhas and play against them a lot, and it's the easiest mech to kill/die in. A lot of time you get shot from outside your fov and you just drop dead. No other mech do I get one shotted in as often as in the piranha, and likewise no other mech do I one shot as often as piranhas. I had 3 of them charge out the gate on sulfurous a few days ago at my lone dual hgauss victor waiting for next wave to build up. 2 died before they even fired, last one just got behind me and started opening my back, and then died. I don't know of any other mechs I could have 1v3ed so easily. But yes, you do have to hit them. Believe it or not mechs will in fact not die if you miss them.

[thievingmagpi]

Hazeclaw, on 12 February 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

Sometimes it feels like you people play a different game. I play piranhas and play against them a lot, and it's the easiest mech to kill/die in. A lot of time you get shot from outside your fov and you just drop dead. No other mech do I get one shotted in as often as in the piranha, and likewise no other mech do I one shot as often as piranhas. I had 3 of them charge out the gate on sulfurous a few days ago at my lone dual hgauss victor waiting for next wave to build up. 2 died before they even fired, last one just got behind me and started opening my back, and then died. I don't know of any other mechs I could have 1v3ed so easily. But yes, you do have to hit them. Believe it or not mechs will in fact not die if you miss them.

hey, listen tryhard, get out of here with your "aim" and your "skill"

[Antares102]

thievingmagpi, on 12 February 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

hey, listen tryhard, get out of here with your "aim" and your "skill"

What's this "aim" and what's this "skill" you are talking about?
Is it magic? Supernatural? Voodoo? Where can I buy it? Amazon maybe?

[thievingmagpi]

just equip lock on weapons EZ 1k damage every match

[Tommy Atkins]

Antares102, on 12 February 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

Two questions:
1.Have you ever played one yourself?
2.Why do good players have no trouble with them?

I love how oh-so-entitled Clan players are so quick to dismiss criticism with the implication that anyone else is not a good player.

As far as I'm concerned, high-speed leg-humping and lag armor are the marks of talent-free scrubs who only play easy mode, but that's just me.

The simple truth is the only people defending Piranhas are the ones gaming the system in order to get easy kills. And PGI's nerf of MGs only punished other designs that weren't OP.

They need to remove about half the hardpoints on each and every Piranha chassis to make them balanced. Period. Be as insulting and as condescending as you like, it's the truth.

[thievingmagpi]

oh I understand, by "perfectly balanced" you mean "not a threat to anything".

[chuck mcgills space blanket]

Tommy Atkins, on 12 February 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

Piranhas are game-breakingly OP, especially the MG ones -- I mean come on, twelve ballistic hardpoints? Nothing that small should be that fast and that tanky and have that much DPS. If you get two of them leg-humping you your match is over.

It's gotten to the point, even in the high-tier solo queue, that if I see the other team has Piranhas and we don't, I know we're going to lose, period. Add in lag and rubber-banding and Piranhas are effectively unkillable. Add skill point boosts and they're even worse. Even without quirks of any kind, PGI needs to nerf them in the worst possible way... if not remove them from the game entirely.

I killed three PIR in a game earlier in my Vulcan 5T. No fish on our side. Vulcan OP.

[K O Z A K]

Tommy Atkins, on 12 February 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

I love how oh-so-entitled Clan players are so quick to dismiss criticism with the implication that anyone else is not a good player.

As far as I'm concerned, high-speed leg-humping and lag armor are the marks of talent-free scrubs who only play easy mode, but that's just me.

The simple truth is the only people defending Piranhas are the ones gaming the system in order to get easy kills. And PGI's nerf of MGs only punished other designs that weren't OP.

They need to remove about half the hardpoints on each and every Piranha chassis to make them balanced. Period. Be as insulting and as condescending as you like, it's the truth.

Have you considered that perhaps people defending piranhas just dont want another light to become completely useless like most other ones? Right now it has good firepower at point blank range, but is made of very thin paper, and is super easy to kill. Removing its firepower will make it....just super easy to kill.

From what I can tell the people most complaining about it are people who think because they bought a 100 tonner nothing should be able to touch them, and touch them the fishies do.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Tommy Atkins, on 12 February 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

The simple truth is the only people defending Piranhas are the ones gaming the system in order to get easy kills. And PGI's nerf of MGs only punished other designs that weren't OP.

I don't own a Piranha and prefer IS Lights. Try again.

[Der Geisterbaer]

thievingmagpi, on 12 February 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

and I guess maybe in lore (lol I don't know any BT lore) lights are not really any threat to anything larger than them.

Let me put it this way: At least some of the lore suggested that from within fiction there "was" indeed the notion that a light (main reference a Locust) would never be able to go up in a 1 vs. 1 against an assault (reference there being an Atlas) and dream of any chances of surviving the encounter while the assault suffers more than scratches on its paintjob. However, the exact same type of lore had a reasonable amount of light mechs - as well as their respective pilots - that came with enough "plot armor" that allowed them to succeed in duel-like situations beyond expected limits while it also had more than enough heavier mechs that rather unceremoniously died near instantly during an engagement. Examples for such "overachieving" lights were mechs like a Valkyrie - with a mere med laser and a single LRM 10 - almost defeating the Rifleman "Legend Killer" (yes the hero mech) - a mech that within lore was rumored to be "more" than it is in mwo. Another such instance was a standard IS Wolfhound WLF-1 coming close to defeating a Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) - IIRC in Prime config - in a duel-like situation.

In context of the table top game itself and the additional lore information given in non-novel fluff info you also had conflicting pieces of information on strength and weaknesses of lights as well. And you'll find more than enough table top players that are able to tell (anecdotal) stories about well played lights defeating heavier mech types in match-ups where their respective strengths were reasonably well considered ... mainly by giving them a strength in numbers against the more "dangerous" weight classes based on the TT's "Battle Value" system.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 12 February 2019 - 02:52 PM.

[Jman5]

thievingmagpi, on 12 February 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

I think a lot of players want to play rock-em-sock-em robots where a bunch of big metal bots stand here and punch each other until one drops, and I guess maybe in lore (lol I don't know any BT lore) lights are not really any threat to anything larger than them.

But this isn't BT lore. It's not ARMA with mechs (which would be fantastic tho). It's a shooter, and it's a team based shooter at that. There are fairly specific times during a match where piranhas swoop in, and usually from the same locations.

If some people had their way the Light's role would be to play handmaiden to the Assault Class. Pressing R for locks so the assault find and blast it. Meanwhile the Light meekly tip toes around and peppers the target with its largely ineffectual armaments.

This is what I hate about battletech/mechwarrior. There is always this instinct to make the game about progression. You start out with a dinky light, then you get your medium which is better, then the heavy, which is better, and finally the assault which is best. The only inkling of balance comes from artificial restrictions put in place like tonnage or Battle Value, or forced weight class matching.

While MWO isn't terrible in terms of weight class balance, it's not good either. It's why they have to introduce so many different artificial restrictions in each queue. They just never had the balls to really make lights and mediums frightening in their own special way just as an Assault that is pummeling you with a million guns is frightening.

Edited by Jman5, 12 February 2019 - 03:51 PM.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

Most broken mech in MWO...

What runs like a light, punches like a heavy, tanks like an assault, but is in fact a medium ? It's... not the piranha.

[dario03]

Tommy Atkins, on 12 February 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

I love how oh-so-entitled Clan players are so quick to dismiss criticism with the implication that anyone else is not a good player.

As far as I'm concerned, high-speed leg-humping and lag armor are the marks of talent-free scrubs who only play easy mode, but that's just me.

The simple truth is the only people defending Piranhas are the ones gaming the system in order to get easy kills. And PGI's nerf of MGs only punished other designs that weren't OP.

They need to remove about half the hardpoints on each and every Piranha chassis to make them balanced. Period. Be as insulting and as condescending as you like, it's the truth.

Whats the truth? Lights being the lowest scoring and least played class?

[Mystere]

Tommy Atkins, on 12 February 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

I love how oh-so-entitled Clan players are so quick to dismiss criticism with the implication that anyone else is not a good player.

As far as I'm concerned, high-speed leg-humping and lag armor are the marks of talent-free scrubs who only play easy mode, but that's just me.

The simple truth is the only people defending Piranhas are the ones gaming the system in order to get easy kills. And PGI's nerf of MGs only punished other designs that weren't OP.

They need to remove about half the hardpoints on each and every Piranha chassis to make them balanced. Period. Be as insulting and as condescending as you like, it's the truth.

You're a Founder. As such, I assume you ***KNOW*** that PGI sticks to lore when it comes to stock load outs. As such, you asking that PGI remove half the hardpoints of a PIR-1 -- especially at this very late stage of the game -- just ...

Pigs have a better chance at flying than PGI acceding to your demands.

Edited by Mystere, 12 February 2019 - 06:44 PM.

[JediPanther]

Jman5, on 12 February 2019 - 03:49 PM, said:

While MWO isn't terrible in terms of weight class balance, it's not good either. It's why they have to introduce so many different artificial restrictions in each queue. They just never had the balls to really make lights and mediums frightening in their own special way just as an Assault that is pummeling you with a million guns is frightening.

There have been a lot of nerfs to lights since jenner was the only light mech. A competent skilled light pilot will wreck a lesser skilled pilot no matter what meta that lesser skilled pilot is using unless they are running a direct counter build such as all streaks or lbxs.

I've outdone assaults quite a bit with damage and/or kills and so have other light pilots. Take a look. https://imgur.com/gallery/ZIXjb

[Jman5]

JediPanther, on 12 February 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

There have been a lot of nerfs to lights since jenner was the only light mech. A competent skilled light pilot will wreck a lesser skilled pilot no matter what meta that lesser skilled pilot is using unless they are running a direct counter build such as all streaks or lbxs.

I've outdone assaults quite a bit with damage and/or kills and so have other light pilots. Take a look. https://imgur.com/gallery/ZIXjb

Sure, a much better player will often out perform a much worse player because balance isn't so terrible that it's impossible. But when you control for skill, the Assault out performs the Light in a typical game. For example the top 20 Assaults have an average matchscore that is 100 points higher than the top 20 Lights. That's a pretty big performance imbalance.

You can affect the outcome of a match much more in an assault than in a Light. That doesn't mean a light is useless. It just means that all skill being equal, an Assault is more useful.

All that said, I think Light mechs are fun and challenging. I think Lights in BATTLETECH are also fun and challenging. I just don't think they are balanced well enough against the bigger mechs.

Edited by Jman5, 12 February 2019 - 07:37 PM.