518 replies to this topic

[InnerSphereNews]

Public Test Session - Alpha Balance Series

Friday July 13th 10:30AM (PDT) - Monday July 16th 12:00 (noon) PDT

Or Direct Download: http://patcher.mwomercs.com/patch/PublicTest/frontend/FrontendPatch_173.zip

Greetings Mechwarriors,

Welcome to the Public Test Session for the Alpha Balance Series. As laid out in Paul's outline post, we will be looking to address the current gulf in effective alpha levels on Clan 'Mechs in comparison to Inner Sphere 'Mechs. Based around the community responses to the earlier post outlying our current options. We want to stress moving into this test that this overall direction is not set in stone at this point. Nor the individual changes themselves . Both the overall direction and the individual changes are set explicitly as testing values for us to monitor and collect data should we consider them for release. We will be closely monitoring the data gathered as well as feedback provided by active testers within the PTS forum. (PTS Forum Link needed.)

To reiterate what Paul said in his "Future Balance Discussions and Planning" thread, the overall solution that we are looking to implement is one that directly addresses the damage discrepancy between the effective alpha damage cap of 94 damage on the Clan side compared to the 60-65 damage that the Inner Sphere typically caps out at. With the intent of narrowing this discrepancy down into a state that is not so lopsided towards one faction. This does not mean that the goal is to see this cap be equal on both sides, but that the gulf that currently exists between the average Clan Alpha centric build and Inner Sphere Alpha centric build should not be as vast as it is currently in-game.

For the opening PTS, we will be testing the options previously presented to the players that garnered the most amount of direct support in the feedback thread based on the approach that the majority of players who commented on preferred:

• Providing a Clan Gauss Rifle Recoil effect.
  
• Reducing the damage on Clan lasers to have closer parity to the IS lasers.
  

Again, this does not mean that these changes are set in stone. We are taking the feedback that we have received to heart, and will be conducting internal tests on other options found internally and includes numbers from the community balance document that still addresses our primary goal of bringing the alpha capabilities between the factions closer together. We anticipate that we will be running a second PTS at an undetermined date to go over more options and alternative solutions that may or may not involve any of the changes listed in the previous "options" post. This first PTS will be targeted at testing the options that we have readily available at the moment. With possible future PTS reserved for alternative options that we are currently investigating internally.

As usual, this Public Test contains a cloned version of the main player account database. This clone was created on June 27th AM UTC. As a result, upon logging into Public Test your account will appear as it did at that time.

• If your account was created after that time you will be unable to access the Skill Tree Public Test.

• If your login credentials were changed after that time you will need to login to this PTS using your original credentials.

• If your account was temporarily suspended at that time please contact moderation@mwomercs.com to resolve the suspension on PTS.

• This PTS build contains much of the content from our June 19th patch, including all of its balance and Quirk adjustments. You can find a rundown on all those changes in our June 19th Patch Notes. However, this PTS build does not contain the Competitive Play mode.

• All Quick Play matches will be 4v4

• Skirmish, Conquest, and Assault are the only two Game Modes in rotation.

• Solo and Group Queue matches will be supported. However, you will need to Group up in groups of 2 or 4 to find a match.

• The matchmaker will not be in effect (no PSR or Weight Class matching).

• Private Matches will be accessible.

• Faction Play will be accessible, but to help ensure you get matches we recommend you drop QP.

• All PTS accounts will be boosted with MC and C-Bill currency and Premium Time to aid with testing.

• Please do not contact Support regarding any PTS questions or feedback. Please direct all PTS-related content to the dedicated Discussion Forum.

Clan Weapon Changes:

Clan Gauss Rifle

Weapon Recoil added to the weapon.

Clan Lasers

• Clan ER-Small Laser
  

- Damage reduced to 4.4 (from 5)

- Heat reduced to 3.2 ( from 3.5)

- Cooldown reduced to 3.2 (from 3.5)

• Clan ER-Medium Laser
  

- Damage reduced to 5.25 (from 7)

- Heat reduced to 5.7 (from 6.3)

- Cooldown reduced to 4 (from 4.5)

• Clan ER- Large Laser
  

- Damage reduced to 10 (from 11)

- Heat Scale Trigger Increased to 4 (from 3)

- This means that you will receive the first heat scale penalty when firing 4 Clan ER-Large Lasers.

• Clan Medium Pulse laser
  

- Damage reduced to 6.25 (from 7)

- Heat reduced to 4.5 (from 4.75)

• Clan Large Pulse laser
  

- Damage reduced to 11 (from 12)

- Heat Scale Trigger Increased to 4 (from 3)

- This means that you will receive the first heat scale penalty when firing 4 Clan Large Pulse lasers.

• Heavy Medium Laser
  

- Damage reduced to 8 (from 10)

- Heat reduced to 7 (from 8)

- Duration reduced to 1.37 (from 1.45)

• Heavy Large Laser
  

- Damage reduced to 16 (from 18)

We would like to thank all of those that have provided feedback on this matter. Feel free to continue to provide feedback both in those threads, and within the newly opened PTS forum.

[Marius Evander]

Im sorry to red pill you all, but here are the facts.

P.G.I. intentionally do not balance the game when they balance the game.

When sales figures drop in a meta a new meta has to be created to get anyone with money but not enough time to open their wallets again to get whatever becomes good.

KDK-3 cuac nerfs into oblivion, make people buy and level srm builds srm spread increased, make people get small pulse boat builds, small pulse nerf, make people get more medium and large laser build mechs.

If the "Balance" never changed we would all get bored and scream for more maps / modes etc a lot louder, instead keeping us too busy chasing the meta keeps people playing and paying.

The PTS will maybe get people the 1st day for a few hours then no one will bother, they wont add loot bag incentives to the PTS to get us to play it, because they want it to be inconclusive so they can once again push their PTS live to change up the game.

The game is being balanced in QP/FP/Solaris NOW for a Stock mode competition that the majority will never play. Lrm buffs, ammo buffs, std heatsink buffs.

Just chase the meta or leave the game, nothing else will ever happen.

If they wanted to Balance the game they would have learnt by now to give buff +% damage quirks to mechs with only 1 or 2 ballistic slots when kdk nerf happened, would have given 6 laser harpoint mechs +% damage to small lasers quirks when the 12 small pulse boats got the weapon nerfed, etc etc, they didnt, they dont, they wont, they want you to look for a new meta, keep playing and leveling mechs and buying more xp / spending more $$..

Why are you even bothering with a PTS, there's no PTS server loot bags event to entice people onto it, it will be more dead than ever, the mwo community are finally giving up on communication with you after you gave up communicating with us YEARS ago.

Your changes to Clan ER large and Clan Large pulse, your LACK OF ENERGY DAMAGE OUTPUT BONUS FOR MECHS THAT CANT BOAT clearly shows your spinning a roulette wheel for what to change next.

At least I will be able to do this build with 2 buttons instead of 3 when this goes live i guess.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 06 July 2018 - 04:35 PM.

[GaelicWolf]

Ok I'll bite and comment on this.

1st of all, I am by no means an expert, nor am I particularly great at his game
2nd, Yes I am a Clan loyalist, but I do have a collection of IS mechs, so I see both sides of the fence

The current "Gulf " that Paul talks about

InnerSphereNews, on 06 July 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

To reiterate what Paul said in his "Future Balance Discussions and Planning" thread, the overall solution that we are looking to implement is one that directly addresses the damage discrepancy between the effective alpha damage cap of 94 damage on the Clan side compared to the 60-65 damage that the Inner Sphere typically caps out at.

Now In my time playing, I have noticed that while the Clan may be able to have a higher Alpha, the Corresponding IS mech can fire their Alpha faster, by that I mean they will be able to get off oa second Alpha quicker than the Clan. This results in a higher average DPS.

Now I am not a Purest who will point at Lore and say that "THATS THE WAY IT MUST BE" But were'nt the Clan "Supposed" to be better at some things.

I just want to play this game as it was intended, but I am afraid that it has been lost in amongst the numerous changes that we have dealt with, and from the look of things have to look forward to in the future......ah well

GaelicWolf Out
<O

[Xeno Phalcon]

Quote

Skirmish, Conquest, and Assault are the only two Game Modes in rotation.

Hmmm somethings not right here.....



Also that medium laser nerf lol.

[teh Reika]

Some mechs have a big alpha-strike (2), but we will reduce all the lasers. Gj PGI, gj!

Edited by teh Reika, 06 July 2018 - 04:35 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

.....

At this point, as I made a thread recently, can we just have mix-tech already and just let Clan stuffs be Clan stuffs, and make IS stuffs more differentiated from Clan stuffs, not just "shorter, weaker, cooler" version of Clan stuffs?

[FupDup]

I'm okay with the overall direction, but my nitpicks are:

1. The Clan ERML damage nerf went too far down. 6 damage would keep it at least a little different from the IS side, 5.25 is basically identical.

2. The Clan MPL also probably went down a little too much (see above, it's basically an IS MPL now).

3. Clan ERSL didn't really need this. It's been whacked with the nerf bat more times than I can count. Otherwise, if you absolutely need to involve it then bring the damage up to 4.5 (nice round number) and compensate the beam duration a bit (1.0 duration pretty pls?).

4. The Clan ERLL shouldn't have higher heat than damage (currently 10.8 heat). PPCs can somewhat get away with that because of their PPFLD advantage, but lasers should never go below 1.0 damage per heat ratio.

Beyond that I'll have to do some spreadsheetwarrior and actual playtesting to see how the other stuff works out. In particular I think that a higher GH limit on the CERLL and CLPL will be nice in theory (Triple ERLL Shadowcat intensifies) but I'll have to see how much it gets abused in practice.

Edited by FupDup, 06 July 2018 - 04:42 PM.

[Hayek Lahiri]

The Lighthouse, on 06 July 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

.....

At this point, as I made a thread recently, can we just have mix-tech already and just let Clan stuffs be Clan stuffs, and make IS stuffs more differentiated from Clan stuffs, not just "shorter, weaker, cooler" version of Clan stuffs?

There would be no reason to use anything IS related if we had mixed tech. Clan tech is straight up better. They have better critical space, ferro, dhs, weight, weapon range, etc.

Edited by Platinum Top, 06 July 2018 - 04:37 PM.

[banana peel]

Lord have mercy, what in the world is that?! Are there any typos in the numbers? I should hope so.

Nerf ermed to 5.25 dmg? FIVE.TWENTYFIVE?

Where are all the "give-and-takes"? Like adequate heat and cooldown buffs to compensate all the nerfs? Can you guys actually hold on to your promises?

And increased GH limit on erll, encouraging boating, i dont even...

You dont even have to launch PTS with these values. Scratch it all and get someone who knows the damn game to come up with new ones.

[The Lighthouse]

Platinum Top, on 06 July 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:

There would be no reason to use anything IS related if we had mixed tech. Clan tech is straight up better. They have better critical space, ferro, dhs, weight, weapon range, etc.

That's why I said

Quote

make IS stuffs more differentiated from Clan stuffs, not just "shorter, weaker, cooler" version of Clan stuffs?

[Nema Nabojiv]

Kindly reminding PGI executives that I am available for hire as an offshore balance overlord.

Pros:
- I will do it right
- 95.3% of the playerbase wont be pіssed off
- 75.9% of the playerbase will be happier and buy moar mechpacks
- It will be about five times cheaper for you

Cons:
- I will need some coding done, about 2 to 3 man/weeks
- I wont hang around in your office but that might as well be one of the pros as you save on coffe


And that thing you about to roll out on PTS is a disgrace and you should feel bad

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

Xeno Phalcon, on 06 July 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hmmm somethings not right here.....



Also that medium laser nerf lol.

since there are only 2 modes to choose in map vote screen i guess its totally right.
just a littlebit confusing formulated....

[justcallme A S H]

Quote

the overall solution that we are looking to implement is one that directly addresses the damage discrepancy between the effective alpha damage cap of 94 damage on the Clan side compared to the 60-65 damage that the Inner Sphere typically caps out at.

I can't believe the PTS changes actually got worse than what was implied was happening initially.

Once again I must point out how incorrect the above statement is with some actual real world facts.....
Only 3 or 4 mechs can run. You have the Clan 94pt Boogeyman
But you aren't at worried at all about the... IS 86pt Boogeyman.

Clan one has an insanely high burn time/duration, higher cooldown, mech has no agility/cant twist and shocking hitboxes but quite a bit more range.

The IS one has far less range but it gains a pile of armour quirks, great hitboxes, barely any burn time/duration to speak of with the HGauss pinpoint and faster cooldown... They are both quite niche in their own way. It is dynamic.


Allowing 3 cERL at once essentially means IS can no longer trade with the only ERL mech they have - BLR-1G... Now Clan will now just 3+3 cERL for a 1s overall duration saving due to cDHS boating.

cERML 1.75dmg drop? Kills any mech that can't boat 5+ of them (IE Lights/Meds, GG once again).

All these changes make little to no sense.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 July 2018 - 05:27 PM.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

Nema Nabojiv, on 06 July 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

Kindly reminding PGI executives that I am available for hire as an offshore balance overlord.

Pros:
- I will do it right
- 95.3% of the playerbase wont be pіssed off
- 75.9% of the playerbase will be happier and buy moar mechpacks
- It will be about five times cheaper for you

Cons:
- I will need some coding done, about 2 to 3 man/weeks
- I wont hang around in your office but that might as well be one of the pros as you save on coffe


And that thing you about to roll out on PTS is a disgrace and you should feel bad

that is some ugly self confedence over there

[shameless]

PGI, i don't know at this point that you guys announcing my favorite mech, the Crusader, could get me to give you guys money right now. Quit nerfing the clans into pointlessness.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

Cadoazreal, on 06 July 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

Im sorry to red pill you all, but here are the facts.

P.G.I. intentionally do not balance the game when they balance the game.

When sales figures drop in a meta a new meta has to be created to get anyone with money but not enough time to open their wallets again to get whatever becomes good.

KDK-3 cuac nerfs into oblivion, make people buy and level srm builds srm spread increased, make people get small pulse boat builds, small pulse nerf, make people get more medium and large laser build mechs.

If the "Balance" never changed we would all get bored and scream for more maps / modes etc a lot louder, instead keeping us too busy chasing the meta keeps people playing and paying.

The PTS will maybe get people the 1st day for a few hours then no one will bother, they wont add loot bag incentives to the PTS to get us to play it, because they want it to be inconclusive so they can once again push their PTS live to change up the game.

The game is being balanced in QP/FP/Solaris NOW for a Stock mode competition that the majority will never play. Lrm buffs, ammo buffs, std heatsink buffs.

Just chase the meta or leave the game, nothing else will ever happen.

If they wanted to Balance the game they would have learnt by now to give buff +% damage quirks to mechs with only 1 or 2 ballistic slots when kdk nerf happened, would have given 6 laser harpoint mechs +% damage to small lasers quirks when the 12 small pulse boats got the weapon nerfed, etc etc, they didnt, they dont, they wont, they want you to look for a new meta, keep playing and leveling mechs and buying more xp / spending more $$..

Why are you even bothering with a PTS, there's no PTS server loot bags event to entice people onto it, it will be more dead than ever, the mwo community are finally giving up on communication with you after you gave up communicating with us YEARS ago.

Your changes to Clan ER large and Clan Large pulse, your LACK OF ENERGY DAMAGE OUTPUT BONUS FOR MECHS THAT CANT BOAT clearly shows your spinning a roulette wheel for what to change next.

At least I will be able to do this build with 2 buttons instead of 3 when this goes live i guess.

%20https://i.imgur.com/76dWdI5.png%20

omg drama queen intensifies.
You dont need to buy new mechs for mc to equip the weapons (which also cost cbills) you want to use/work best atm.
Do yourself a favor and stop swalloing the red pills d(@_@)d

[Hayek Lahiri]

The Lighthouse, on 06 July 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

That's why I said

Wouldn't really matter at the end since you can fit more Clan DHS than IS.

[Andi Nagasia]

Xeno Phalcon, on 06 July 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hmmm somethings not right here.....

Also that medium laser nerf lol.

Clearly all Game modes are Skermish so its not being counted?

ya i kinda wished they just reduced all Clan Laser Damage by 1 and work from there,
losing almost 2 damage for C-ERML and HML and HLL is alot, ill test to see how it plays,

personally i feel that IS SL & ERSL should have their Damage increased to 3.5 to 4,

[The Lighthouse]

Now, I am reading these.... these 'balance' numbers and they are actually far worse than I initially thought:


1) With ERML nerfs, with same duration, any mech builds that do not use ERML as laser alpha are completely worthless now.

2) Seriously, did you actually nerf ERSL? so everyone is now forced to play either Clan machinegun or IS MPL mechs for light mechs?

3) With ghost heat increase on big Clan lasers, actually Clan laserboats did not lose much damage, though they suffered even more longer face-time. But I really don't think CERLL changes are good.

...this essentially worsen the current situation, not other way.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 06 July 2018 - 05:09 PM.

[Prototelis]

I'm actually pretty okay with this except for what you're doing to small lasers.

Lights are gimpy enough, and I'm pretty sure no one is abusing ersmalls.