518 replies to this topic

[C H E E K I E Z]

There is a difference between the players choosing a meta because we have options, and PGI forcing THEIR meta onto us because its what they want, and anyone not playing their meta literally wont be able to keep up.

[Andrzej Lechrenski]

If the trade-off ends up being lesser alpha damage for greater effective DPS (which it appears that it at least COULD have been), I think I can play along with this. If the tradeoff is lesser alpha damage because whining (which, given history, I am afraid it will become), then no, I am not cool with that at all. It is already painfully difficult and time-consuming to put a decent Clan build together. If IS players want to challenge me on that, then I suggest you try playing only Clan mechs for a week and see how much more of a "nerf" they need for yourselves.

Edited by Andrzej Lechrenski, 06 July 2018 - 05:32 PM.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Before you guys hit us with the nerf bat, yet again, tell us this: Who possesses the most devastating pin-point damage weapon also known as the Heavy Gauss Rifle? Not us. Furthermore, who has the toughest to kill mech also known as the Annihilator? Not us again (We designed it, but the IS gets to have it on their side instead). So leave us alone.

[Shaky Snake]

Not really sure how we got to the point of nerfing ALL the clan lasers when it's only a "problem" on SOME mechs. I mean, giving the ER Mediums a negative heat efficiency makes them completely unplayable, as does adding the additional recoil to the gauss rifle (abliet not to the same extent).

Doesn't it just make more sense to buff the armour? Or increase the burn time to give the opportunity to dish out a similar % alpha compared to the reduced armour of the mechs packing the big alphas?

[S p a n i a r d]

At least put the Clan ER-MED Laser damage close to its Pulse counterpart..

5.25 (ER-Med) vs 6.25 (Pulse-Med) damage is too much difference imo.

Maybe change it to 5.75 or 6? Then adjust the heat and duration accordingly.

[Marius Evander]

[saltywater]

Wait, there is a clan wave sale before this nerf? Oh the insights this provides.

[Marius Evander]

SHRedo, on 06 July 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

You dont need to buy new mechs for mc to equip the weapons (which also cost cbills) you want to use/work best atm.

You dont HAVE to buy the new mechs that boat whatever the new meta weapons worl best on to chase the meta no. No one is being forced to do anything, but people who play casually are more likely to spend mc to help level the new good mechs since they dont have the time to play to level them. I am simply explaining one of the reasons pgi do not want the game to be balanced, stagnation in meta would lead to lower income.


Dont worry guys, one of the changes will be cancelled to appease us while the rest of the changes go through.

[Navid A1]

InnerSphereNews, on 06 July 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Spoiler

Clan Weapon Changes:

Clan Gauss Rifle

Weapon Recoil added to the weapon.

Clan Lasers

• Clan ER-Small Laser

- Damage reduced to 4.4 (from 5)
- Heat reduced to 3.2 ( from 3.5)
- Cooldown reduced to 3.2 (from 3.5)

• Clan ER-Medium Laser

- Damage reduced to 5.25 (from 7)
- Heat reduced to 5.7 (from 6.3)
- Cooldown reduced to 4 (from 4.5)

• Clan ER- Large Laser

- Damage reduced to 10 (from 11)
- Heat Scale Trigger Increased to 4 (from 3)
- This means that you will receive the first heat scale penalty when firing 4 Clan ER-Large Lasers.

• Clan Medium Pulse laser

- Damage reduced to 6.25 (from 7)
- Heat reduced to 4.5 (from 4.75)

• Clan Large Pulse laser

- Damage reduced to 11 (from 12)
- Heat Scale Trigger Increased to 4 (from 3)
- This means that you will receive the first heat scale penalty when firing 4 Clan Large Pulse lasers.

• Heavy Medium Laser

- Damage reduced to 8 (from 10)
- Heat reduced to 7 (from 8)
- Duration reduced to 1.37 (from 1.45)

• Heavy Large Laser

- Damage reduced to 16 (from 18)

My initial thoughts:

• Clan Gauss rifle

A big fat NO!. its not a problem and should not be touched. You should look at boosts to IS-Gauss with regards to health and explosion chance and damage.

• C-ER Small Laser:

At first glance it seems that the heat and the cooldown boosts compensate the damage nerf, but you have note that:
You have reduced the DPS.
You have reduced DPH
You kept HPS the same.
So, looks more like an overall nerf
We'll see how it plays out.

• C-ER Medium Laser:

You have significantly reduced the DPS.
You have significantly reduced DPH
You kept HPS the same.
Compared to the IS-ERML, the C-ERML now has less damage per tick, less DPS, less damage per heat, significantly more heat and almost identical alpha... all for 40m of range.
I really think you need someone to define the meaning of trade-off to you Chris!... so tell me again what do the clans get in terms of advantage for all the HUGE downsides now?... 0.25 more damage and 40m of range?....lol
Suggestion: either be more conservative with your damage nerf, or boost the heat and cooldown even more.

• C-ER Large Laser:

A pure damage nerf to all and a compensation to only maybe 2-3 specific mech variants?
hello?
balance?
This is the kind of nonsense that gets under my skin.
Suggestion: reduce heat to compensate the damage nerf

• C-Medium Pulse Laser:

We'll see how this plays out.

• C-Large Pulse Laser:

Again, a pure damage nerf to all and a compensation to only maybe 2-3 specific mech.
Compensate with heat and cooldown.
Pulse lasers usually have lower heat than ERs allowing to sustain DPS... why is this not the case with C-LPL?

• C-Heavy Medium Laser:

Heavy handed on the damage reduction. C-HML is already a rare weapon due to its ridiculously long cooldown.
An additional cooldown reduction is recommended. Know the issue first.

• C-Heavy Large Laser:

Damage nerf is fair. However, you have to adjust the heat (reduce it to 15 for example which still will be a DPH nerf over live version)

Edited by Navid A1, 06 July 2018 - 05:58 PM.

[GamerPro4000]

Does this mean clan mechs will get structure and armor quirks like their IS counterparts in the near future?

[TK Romero]

Well at least, at least, it's starting on the test server.

Remember when PGI wanted to do an energy bar? That went on the PTS and it didn't go live. Before the pitch forks go up (again), the PTS is in Alpha. Try it out, confirm what's known, and then give constructive feedback for the next round of PTS testing. Who knows PGI may/might/would make some changes to actually improve the game balance.

Yeah sure, this may end up just being one big 'ol nerf stick to the Clan Laser Vomit face. And sure, we're tired of sudden changes to what we just got done getting used to and building counters to. But at least a player base concern is being addressed even if it is starting out harsh on the PTS.

Edited by TK Romero, 06 July 2018 - 05:50 PM.

[SFC174]

Wow, went from a couple tweaks on some of the most popular lasers to mega-nerf of the ERML and nerfing everything else (except, perhaps C-ERLL - the most boring lasvomit to play).

I'll play a few games in the PTS, but I don't need to play to know this will tank my play time immensely. I mean, seriously, you're not just killing alphas, you're also killing DPS and heat efficiency - particularly on the C-ERML.

I could have supported alpha reductions if overall DPS and heat remained the same, but to nerf all of them? Screw you guys, I'm going home.

p.s. - I know exactly how the balance team is going to play this. Introduce monster nerfs on the PTS, then dial it back a bit and say, "see, we listen!". Not this time PGI, not this time. 1 pt dmg off the C-ERML, 2 pts off the HLL. Reduce cooldown and heat to compensate. Add 1 pt to C-SPL and heat to compensate. Leave the rest alone. Jesus, nerfing the C-MPL to be virtually the same as the IS MPL? 20% more heat, 20% longer cycle time for .25 more dmg and 10% more max range. You've got to be f***in kidding me. Even without quirks that makes the IS version arguably superior and with all the quirked IS mechs the IS MPL will actually be better in many applications. You guys are insane.

[Navid A1]

TK Romero, on 06 July 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

Well at least, at least, it's starting on the test server.

Remember when PGI wanted to do an energy bar? That went on the PTS and it didn't go live. Before the pitch forks go up, the PTS is in Alpha. Try it out, confirm what's known, and then give constructive feedback for the next round of PTS testing. Who knows PGI may/might/would make some changes to actually improve the game balance.

Yeah sure, this may end up just being one big 'ol nerf stick to the Clan Laser Vomit face. And sure, we're tired of sudden changes to what we just got done getting used to and building counters to. But at least a player base concern is being addressed even if it is starting out harsh on the PTS.

Energy draw was ditched BECAUSE of the pitch forks... otherwise we would have had it live with PGI saying that they received positive feedback

Edited by Navid A1, 06 July 2018 - 05:50 PM.

[Marius Evander]

Navid A1, on 06 July 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

Spoiler

My initial thoughts:

• Clan Gauss rifle

A big fat NO!. its not a problem and should not be touched. You should look at boosts to IS-Gauss with regards to health and explosion chance and damage.

• C-ER Small Laser:

At first glance it seems that the heat and the cooldown boosts compensate the damage nerf, but you have note that:


You have reduced the DPS.
You have reduced DPH
You kept HPS the same.
So, looks more like an overall nerf
We'll see how it plays out.

• C-ER Medium Laser:

You have significantly reduced the DPS.



You have significantly reduced DPH
You kept HPS the same.
Compared to the IS-ERML, the C-ERML now has less damage per tick, less DPS, less damage per heat, significantly more heat and almost identical alpha... all for 40m of range.
I really think you need someone to define the meaning of trade-off to you Chris!... so tell me again what do the clans get in terms of advantage for all the HUGE downsides now?... 0.25 more damage and 40m of range?....lol

Suggestion: either be more conservative with your damage nerf, or boost the heat and cooldown even more.

• C-ER Large Laser:

A pure damage nerf to all and a compensation to only maybe 2-3 specific mech variants?

hello?
balance?
This is the kind of nonsense that gets under my skin.
Suggestion: reduce heat to compensate the damage nerf

• C-Medium Pulse Laser:

We'll see how this plays out.

• C-Large Pulse Laser:

Again, a pure damage nerf to all and a compensation to only maybe 2-3 specific mech.




Compensate with heat and cooldown.
Pulse lasers usually have lower heat than ERs allowing to sustain DPS... why is this not the case with C-LPL?

• C-Heavy Medium Laser:

Heavy handed on the damage reduction. C-HML is already a rare weapon due to its ridiculously long cooldown.





An additional cooldown reduction is recommended. Know the issue first.

• C-Heavy Large Laser:

Damage nerf is fair. However, you have to adjust the heat (reduce it to 15 for example which still will be a DPH nerf over live version)

navid put some spoiler quotes around quoting the entire initial post please its "{spolier}" without holding shift on { [

[Navid A1]

The funny thing in this list is how C-ERLL and C-LPL both got nerf'd for all clan mechs, yet the compensation is towards the mech variants that already are (ab)using them to the max


That is top level S*** Chris!

[TK Romero]

Navid A1, on 06 July 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

Energy draw was ditched BECAUSE of the pitch forks... otherwise we would have had it live with PGI saying that they received positive feedback

Thanks Navid for jogging my memory, I had almost forgotten that it was from the negative feedback that it didn't go live. But that's why this PTS can be just as effective. If the majority ends up disliking the proposed changes after trying it out in a live environment, we can do it all over again just like the energy draw system.

My fingers are crossed, but I'm not holding my breath. Really just hoping for something positive to come out of this.

[Marius Evander]

I just realised I better hurry up and finish my clan tour >_<

[Svarti713]

What happened to Clan Tech having better damage dealing weapons and longer range with longer cooldowns while IS Tech dealing less damage and a lesser cooldown and shorter range Like the way it is in the lore. Seriously leave clan lasers alone, keep nerfing them and many people including my self might just never touch this game again. This is so stupid. With all the money i've spent on this game, I love clan laser vomit. If you just nerf all the mechs Ive bought and make them useless then I have no reason to play the game. Il just buy a PS4 and play Hawken or so other crappier mech game if I have to.

[PobbestGob]

These changes are more disappointing than expected. Some people above have already mentioned some numbers, the most glaring being the ER med. Comparing the IS to Clan one it's quite obvious the IS is objectively superior, clan gets a measly 5% more damage for significantly more heat and duration. Hoping these nerfs don't make it live. Please buff something, other than LRMs. Until then I've taken up Minecraft and Starcraft again.

[Cy Mitchell]

I will be testing on July 13th. I will hold my comments until then. Thanks for the PTS.