154 replies to this topic

[Miocast]

Well game itself is anti-light for a most part.

Mediums such as vipers, assasins, cicadas are performing more efficient and way more forgivable then any llight will ever do.

On top of that in current meta we have cheesy things such as LRMs and to certain extend Gausses.

As a light you will need to work really, really hard to either achieve overall match damage of LRMS boats or achieve instakill status as gauss or laservomit builds do on heavier platforms.

As dedicated light pilot i see no reason to bring 95% of lights into the game with exception of MG boats and Wolfhound or Arctic Cheetah SPL build.

And even then you better to play as conservative as possible, - only going for mechs that are either cored or red armored since your time to live is abysmaly small.

Until there is will be certain love in a field of agility, overall survivabilty or damage side for lights - then you better be off with fast meds.

At this point if you run any lights then you run gimped chassis in 9 out of 10 situations.

[jtyotJOTJIPAEFVJ]

Miocast, on 15 July 2018 - 03:37 AM, said:

Until there is will be certain love in a field of agility, overall survivabilty or damage side for lights - then you better be off with fast meds.

This. Rescale killed almost all the useful lights. Why would I take a Jenner when a Cicada is basically the same size and speed but can fit more weapons and twice as much armor? Either all lights need armor quirks similar to the wolfhound, or they need to be made far smaller to compensate for the reduced armor.

[Dragonporn]

Strange question, OP. Design perspective is obvious:
Light > Assault > Heavy > Medium > Light. Simple rock, paper, scissors design. That aside from fact that some Light chassis are beyond OP and can easily wreck half of enemy team if engaged at the right moment and good angle.

In whole picture you can doubt usefulness of Mediums more than any other weight class, because they definitely are the ones not having role aside from hunting Lights (which not every build is potentially good at). So, currently Lights are more than useful in the game, and besides invaluable combat force, they also excel at side objectives, such as capturing, power cell carrying and etc.

[Lethe Wyvern]

mailin, on 15 July 2018 - 03:13 AM, said:

Spoiler

I looked at the poll but didn't answer it, mainly because the question are so badly worded. Sorry.

To answer the question and add to what has already been said though, lights are the toughest class to play for many reasons. The lack of armor and firepower have already been discussed. I would add to it that they are the most dynamic. The role of lights change depending on the game mode. That makes them unique. They exist in this game to provide a sense of dynamism that wouldn't occur of all we had were assaults and heavies. They exist to face the enemy and trade blows. Lights exist to find the enemy, look for weak spots, call out movements, and once the enemy is engaged or close to engaged harass the rear.

One reason that they are underutilized in MWO is not the fault of PGI. I maintain that it is the fault of the light pilots themselves. One of the reasons for lights is to provide intel whenever possible. The best way to do that is on comms and also requires pilots to lock their targets. The number of times I have been on a team and a light isn't doing those things is shocking. It has been previously stated that a light driver didn't want to give away his position by locking targets. He shouldn't be in a light then.

In defense of my Spider. I'd like to see a medium that can go 148kph, and has ECM and jump jets. There are some things lights can do that no other class can. Period.

Miocast, on 15 July 2018 - 03:37 AM, said:

Spoiler

Well game itself is anti-light for a most part.

Mediums such as vipers, assasins, cicadas are performing more efficient and way more forgivable then any llight will ever do.

On top of that in current meta we have cheesy things such as LRMs and to certain extend Gausses.

As a light you will need to work really, really hard to either achieve overall match damage of LRMS boats or achieve instakill status as gauss or laservomit builds do on heavier platforms.

As dedicated light pilot i see no reason to bring 95% of lights into the game with exception of MG boats and Wolfhound or Arctic Cheetah SPL build.

And even then you better to play as conservative as possible, - only going for mechs that are either cored or red armored since your time to live is abysmaly small.

Until there is will be certain love in a field of agility, overall survivabilty or damage side for lights - then you better be off with fast meds.

At this point if you run any lights then you run gimped chassis in 9 out of 10 situations.

Dragonporn, on 15 July 2018 - 06:35 AM, said:

Spoiler

Strange question, OP. Design perspective is obvious:
Light > Assault > Heavy > Medium > Light. Simple rock, paper, scissors design. That aside from fact that some Light chassis are beyond OP and can easily wreck half of enemy team if engaged at the right moment and good angle.

In whole picture you can doubt usefulness of Mediums more than any other weight class, because they definitely are the ones not having role aside from hunting Lights (which not every build is potentially good at). So, currently Lights are more than useful in the game, and besides invaluable combat force, they also excel at side objectives, such as capturing, power cell carrying and etc.

Thank you for expanded answers!

p.s. link to Poll

[Requiemking]

Dragonporn, on 15 July 2018 - 06:35 AM, said:

Strange question, OP. Design perspective is obvious:
Light > Assault > Heavy > Medium > Light. Simple rock, paper, scissors design. That aside from fact that some Light chassis are beyond OP and can easily wreck half of enemy team if engaged at the right moment and good angle.

In whole picture you can doubt usefulness of Mediums more than any other weight class, because they definitely are the ones not having role aside from hunting Lights (which not every build is potentially good at). So, currently Lights are more than useful in the game, and besides invaluable combat force, they also excel at side objectives, such as capturing, power cell carrying and etc.

Erm, you've got that very backwards. Lights got wrecked in terms of combat ability back in June of 2016, when he Rescale ballooned all but five of them while simultaneously hurting their terrain traversal abilities via mobility profile nerfs. There is little point to running most Lights due to mechs like the Fridge, Cicada, Viper, ect. The few Lights that are worth running are either quirked to make them usable(such as the Commando and the Wolfhound) or excel at a single gimmicky build(such as the Piranha).

Edited by Requiemking, 16 July 2018 - 09:53 PM.

[Dragonporn]

Requiemking, on 16 July 2018 - 09:53 PM, said:

Erm, you've got that very backwards. Lights got wrecked in terms of combat ability back in June of 2016, when he Rescale ballooned all but five of them while simultaneously hurting their terrain traversal abilities via mobility profile nerfs. There is little point to running most Lights due to mechs like the Fridge, Cicada, Viper, ect. The few Lights that are worth running are either quirked to make them usable(such as the Commando and the Wolfhound) or excel at a single gimmicky build(such as the Piranha).

Speaking generally from personal experience. I'm running Osiris and Cicada for reference, Cicada is a lot bigger, so easier target to hit, while Osiris feels like invincible. I can run circles around pretty much all Assaults and 90% of Heavies in Osiris, while taking them apart. With Cicada it's not that easy. Faster mechs, and especially smaller ones as Locust or Flea, have it much easier. With Cicada or Viper I can mostly poke or hunt Lights, but I cannot dive into 12 man team, drop UAV/Arti, core few guys and bail outta there alive, while in Osiris I absolutely can and do so pretty much every game.

For example, MLX or PIR can pretty much consistently get around 600 damage and at least 3 kill each round, considering pilot isn't complete potato, while in Viper or Cicada it isn't possible to do so as consistently as in those chassis. For me all Mediums feel like wanna-be's of either Lights or Heavies, which in first case lack nimbleness, agility and mainly size, while in other case lack armor and firepower. I have very powerful Medium chassis, but they generally excel because of cheese (or too good) profiles, but they still can't do job of Lights or Heavies even close.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Dragonporn, on 17 July 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

Speaking generally from personal experience. I'm running Osiris and Cicada for reference, Cicada is a lot bigger, so easier target to hit, while Osiris feels like invincible. I can run circles around pretty much all Assaults and 90% of Heavies in Osiris, while taking them apart. With Cicada it's not that easy. Faster mechs, and especially smaller ones as Locust or Flea, have it much easier.

Thats simple wrong, you just dont know how to use them in proper way, and if you want to compare cic with light mechs then pick wolfhound, jenner and firestarter(if we talking about viper then jenner IIC or old ye cheetah).

Dragonporn, on 17 July 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

With Cicada or Viper I can mostly poke or hunt Lights, but I cannot dive into 12 man team, drop UAV/Arti, core few guys and bail outta there alive, while in Osiris I absolutely can and do so pretty much every game.

If you doing such with osiris, then your enemies are pure trash.

Dragonporn, on 17 July 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

For example, MLX or PIR can pretty much consistently get around 600 damage and at least 3 kill each round, considering pilot isn't complete potato, while in Viper or Cicada it isn't possible to do so as consistently as in those chassis. For me all Mediums feel like wanna-be's of either Lights or Heavies, which in first case lack nimbleness, agility and mainly size, while in other case lack armor and firepower. I have very powerful Medium chassis, but they generally excel because of cheese (or too good) profiles, but they still can't do job of Lights or Heavies even close.

Viper was very good strike light mech until spl nerf, and decent harasser until lmg nerf, now its gone. Cic can be useful as 3ll/3erll/lvom harasser/troll or mpl med-to-close harasser/duelist. But again, they are not mediums, they are fatty 35 lights, and if you want do stuff, you must act as similar builded light mech(mostly used for very specific conditions). Its very hard now due rescales, desync and weapon nerfs, instagibbin with 2hgauss or massive homing wepps ... but who cares? We have lurmwarrior online now.

p.s. link to Poll

Edited by Lethe Wyvern, 19 July 2018 - 02:16 AM.

[A Headless Chicken]

I don't see why lights aren't supposed to do heavy lifting.

[KursedVixen]

So what's wrong with Lights?

Agent of Change, on 09 July 2018 - 06:50 AM, said:

But honestly one can argue those roles can be performed as well or better by many mediums. It's not that you can't do any thing with lights, just that there really isn't anything lights can do that another class can't just do better.

I just wrote the following in a discord discussion so i'll just transfer it here because it's relevant:

Ideally [in a drop] there shoudl always be a relatively even mix of weights. The objective of a game should always be the mission goal;

• Lights are there to accomplish mission objectives and scout the enemy,
  
• Mediums are there to accomplish mission objectives and harrass enemy lights,
  
• Heavies exist to support the other classes and secure objectives,
  
• Assaults exist to push objectives and kill enemy mechs to make it easier for the other three to do their jobs.

That's how it SHOULD work, "Combined arms", but PGI moved away from that to the point where heavies are the preferred, Assaults are playing second fiddle in the face punching game in general thanks to the rate damage can be deployed vs. armor available, only some mediums really top perform but in general they can hang, and only broken lights are taken seriously.

Adders/Pumas can't scout..... their fire support mechs.....Not all lights are built for scouting....I think the Wolfhound is also not a scout. Lights can also harass slower heavier mechs to free up the heavier allies to focus on other mechs.... Your definition is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to limited.

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 July 2018 - 11:34 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

A Headless Chicken, on 19 July 2018 - 02:07 AM, said:

I don't see why lights aren't supposed to do heavy lifting.

because heavy and assaults feel entitled to kill them easily just because they selected a heavier mech in the mechbay. I am not exaggerating, just look in variours threads over the years in which people whine about lights...even despite the mech class is at its weakest

[catsonmeth]

This is stupid. It's just complaining about not being able to do the exact same thing over and over again, and it makes the game worse.

Oh no I occasionally have to consider more than what's red and directly in front of my dual HGauss oh deary me there are counters to my otherwise unstoppable 20 DPS tank oh golly gee my meta build I made to increase my MLG status isn't the best in every situation oh gosh. Those damn lights.

[KursedVixen]

catsonmeth, on 22 July 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

This is stupid. It's just complaining about not being able to do the exact same thing over and over again, and it makes the game worse.

Oh no I occasionally have to consider more than what's red and directly in front of my dual HGauss oh deary me there are counters to my otherwise unstoppable 20 DPS tank oh golly gee my meta build I made to increase my MLG status isn't the best in every situation oh gosh. Those damn lights.

is that what this is about? knew i was wasting my time with this dumb poll and discussion. here's a tip get streaks they work well vs lights... or maybe you could umm LEARN HOW TO AIM!?

[MTier Slayed Up]

I mainly pilot assaults/heavies but I've been taking the Wolf Hound into QP lately and pulling in the same numbers as I would in my mains.

Lights can be relevant and deadly in the game, just have to know how to pilot them. Ezy Pzy.

[Y E O N N E]

DrtyDshSoap, on 22 July 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

I mainly pilot assaults/heavies but I've been taking the Wolf Hound into QP lately and pulling in the same numbers as I would in my mains.

Lights can be relevant and deadly in the game, just have to know how to pilot them. Ezy Pzy.

To be fair, a Wolfhound is not really a Light as much as it is a Medium with the speed of a Light.

That said, I agree.

[Rusharn]

I recall a game were every one on my team was in 40 tons or lighter mech, and we ended up against a group of 8 assaults, 3 heavies and a medium, and the other team got slaughtered. Faster lights and medium mechs have a powerful role as fast strike cavalry, being able to adjust quickly to different area's of the battle field, cause disruption, to out flank the enemy and to provide enemy positions often through popping a UAV over the enemy team. The Kit Fox are full support, stay in tight with assaults and heavies, provide protection from LRM's and lights, increasing the survivalist of the big boys and adding some supplemental fire power. Your small size allows you to be kind of dispensary in the middle of combat, especially with full radar dep.

The slower omni lights are in a bad place, as they don't have the armor, nor the speed, and they don't usually don't carry enough support items. They usually don't make good light hunters, especially as several mediums and heavies can do it better.

Lights just have a higher skill threshold then most other mechs, but if you invest in those skills you can get amazing performance out of them especially against pilots who have not worked on their gunnery or situational awareness skills.

[Requiemking]

Rusharn, on 23 July 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

I recall a game were every one on my team was in 40 tons or lighter mech, and we ended up against a group of 8 assaults, 3 heavies and a medium, and the other team got slaughtered. Faster lights and medium mechs have a powerful role as fast strike cavalry, being able to adjust quickly to different area's of the battle field, cause disruption, to out flank the enemy and to provide enemy positions often through popping a UAV over the enemy team. The Kit Fox are full support, stay in tight with assaults and heavies, provide protection from LRM's and lights, increasing the survivalist of the big boys and adding some supplemental fire power. Your small size allows you to be kind of dispensary in the middle of combat, especially with full radar dep.

The slower omni lights are in a bad place, as they don't have the armor, nor the speed, and they don't usually don't carry enough support items. They usually don't make good light hunters, especially as several mediums and heavies can do it better.

Lights just have a higher skill threshold then most other mechs, but if you invest in those skills you can get amazing performance out of them especially against pilots who have not worked on their gunnery or situational awareness skills.

Well, the Adder isn't actually too bad. It can be a decent fire support mech, provided you stick to the shadows. Plus, I don't think there are any Clan Lights or Mediums with better quirks for Missile support, except maybe the KFX-D.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lights are typically satellite units that do everything from scout, cap, flank, backstab, to catching mechs out of position. They are probably the busiest mechs in a match. They aren't meant specifically to do just one of those, they have to be flexible and potent at all of them (or at least have one specialized in certain roles). This game is combat centric and always will be, unless healing becomes part of the game there will never be a support role that shouldn't be capable of significant damage (and even if they were, lights are the wrong mechs to shove on that).

[Vesper11]

I know another reason for lights: to die so that enemy team thinks they have number advantage and starts pushing like stupid only to die because lights do no damage~

[Lethe Wyvern]

Okay now its 90% of minimum. Cmon guys, we need 10 more votes! Link to Poll

[Villainy]

This thread am ******.

Lights can serve a dozen roles and are absolutely not limited to scouting/anti-light combat. A lance of locusts have the ability to wipe a team if they work well together. Because lights as a whole benefit more than any other class from teamwork, cooperation, and communication. A lot of my top 10 moments in this game boil down to a pack of lights that really got each other.

Most viewpoints in this thread are from a singular/solo point of view. If you're solo dropping lights you need tonnage buddies. A group of lights is a deadly thing to ignore, and this thread just seems like whining.