154 replies to this topic

[Chados]

As I have risen in tier my preferred mech has become lighter and lighter. It’s interesting how that happened.

[TWIAFU]

Nightbird, on 09 July 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

Light mechs in MWO act as flankers, back stabbers to slow assaults, and enemy formation disruptors.

Farm salt from spuds with no situational awareness.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Chados, on 10 July 2018 - 02:26 AM, said:

As I have risen in tier my preferred mech has become lighter and lighter. It’s interesting how that happened.

That is about zen, imo.

LordNothing, on 10 July 2018 - 01:28 AM, said:

to troll potato assaults.

TWIAFU, on 10 July 2018 - 04:32 AM, said:

Farm salt from spuds with no situational awareness.

Oh cmon, that's not an answer!

[Old dirty B]

What is the goal or purpose of this thread? To figure out why people play a light mech or to justify the presence of light mechs in this game in general?

In case of the latter, light mechs offer a certain gameplay which by some people is considered fun. Light mechs perhaps have the most unique and challenging gameplay of all classes, they have a steep learning curve with a high skill floor and ceiling. Performance highly depends on the pilot, this also applies to other classes but in extreme to light mechs. In the end, it adds variety to the game.

[Oldbob10025]

Lethe Wyvern, on 09 July 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

Seems to be polls are not allowed in General Discussion, so i made it in Feature Suggestions, here is the link to Poll

I am really curious and not trying to troll or something.

Did you really ask that question? Why are you playing this game if you dont know why lights are in the game. This is battletech and not Call of duty.

[TWIAFU]

Vellron2005, on 09 July 2018 - 11:19 PM, said:

How fair is that?

Perfectly fair and extremely fun to make Clanner cry when the loose to an URBANMECH.

A Urbie! Lost to a Urbie with MGs! Things cannot get more fun then that.

[LordNothing]

Lethe Wyvern, on 10 July 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

Oh cmon, that's not an answer!

not only is it a very good answer its also the right answer. if it wasnt id get points for scouting.

[ArcRoyale]

Disclaimer: I am not a pro player by any means.

I love my Stealth Armor Raven. I play a replication of the 4L from Tabletop, and find it's great in games like Conquest and Incursion. Some of the most fun I have was when the other team is killing each other, going to the enemy base and smashing everything while the turrets do nothing. Granted, that was one game, but it's still quite a fun experience.

I love my UAC/10 Uller. That one's a recreation of the Alt Config B. The UAC/10 gives it reasonable firepower, but the SRM added as well serves as another good weapon when that's charging. The Mech has enough speed and firepower to get it through enough matches to count.

In the end, I play to have fun, and that's exactly what I do with Lights.

[Leone]

Lights are here to tank for the party.

Sadly, the Flamer Nerf has lessened their impact and they've had to branch out into alternative roles, such as Murder Most Foul.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 11 July 2018 - 12:56 PM.

[Quxudica]

Lethe Wyvern, on 09 July 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

Seems to be polls are not allowed in General Discussion, so i made it in Feature Suggestions, here is the link to Poll

I am really curious and not trying to troll or something.

Because once upon a time MWO was pitched as a mech-sim-lite in which one of the primary pillars of gameplay would be Role Warfare, in which each weight class (and specific chassis within said weight classes) would serve different functions on the battlefield. Example being the initial idea that the Raven would be an IFW mech. This never actually happened and the game never provided the needed framework for Role Warfare to develop beyond it's shallowest possible aspect, thus all mechs regardless of weight class are built like front line assaults.

[jss78]

Well, I think ultimately they're in this game because they've always been in BattleTech. It'd be a radical move to be the first game to not have them.

They've always kind of struggled to find a role in this game. Consider the reasons why you'd use lights in the original tabletop game:

1. Economy. They're cheap, and a Stinger/Wasp might be all you can afford. But this game has no economy -- we're all infinitely rich, in effect.
2. Speed. You really, REALLY need to go faster than a fast medium can go. This isn't a thing in this game either.

In short, you don't really need a light in this game. And, given these constraints, you wouldn't use lights in tabletop either. If all you did was 12-vs-12 mech deathmatches -- with infinite c-bill limits -- no-one would ever use a light in tabletop. The tonnage would be just as lopsided as it is in this game.

That said they're doing comparatively well in this game. Compare with HBS BT where they're completely useless.

Edited by jss78, 11 July 2018 - 04:02 PM.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Quxudica, on 11 July 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

Spoiler

Because once upon a time MWO was pitched as a mech-sim-lite in which one of the primary pillars of gameplay would be Role Warfare, in which each weight class (and specific chassis within said weight classes) would serve different functions on the battlefield. Example being the initial idea that the Raven would be an IFW mech. This never actually happened and the game never provided the needed framework for Role Warfare to develop beyond it's shallowest possible aspect, thus all mechs regardless of weight class are built like front line assaults.

jss78, on 11 July 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Spoiler

Well, I think ultimately they're in this game because they've always been in BattleTech. It'd be a radical move to be the first game to not have them.

They've always kind of struggled to find a role in this game. Consider the reasons why you'd use lights in the original tabletop game:

1. Economy. They're cheap, and a Stinger/Wasp might be all you can afford. But this game has no economy -- we're all infinitely rich, in effect.
2. Speed. You really, REALLY need to go faster than a fast medium can go. This isn't a thing in this game either.

In short, you don't really need a light in this game. And, given these constraints, you wouldn't use lights in tabletop either. If all you did was 12-vs-12 mech deathmatches -- with infinite c-bill limits -- no-one would ever use a light in tabletop. The tonnage would be just as lopsided as it is in this game.

That said they're doing comparatively well in this game. Compare with HBS BT where they're completely useless.

Thank you for expanded answers!

p.s. link to Poll

[Weeny Machine]

The problem is that the light mech class is dependend on 2 factors:
1. the skill of the light mech pilot
2. the potato factor of the enemies

If a team has situational awareness and you play a mech like PIR or similar light specced for brawling, you will have a very hard time and most likely you sit around doing nothing till late game...or end up with a wrecked mech in no time

Most other light mechs are usually more considered of being a nuisance and no real threat and get shot usually only if there is no one else - unfortunately this assessment is mostly right.

Currently I see no real role for light mechs. Everything the class can do, a fast medium can do better consistently. The exception is the crit seeking PIR-1

The bigger lights really need some buff in the agility department. They turn so slowly for their size, which again makes them more prone to eat shots.

[Chados]

Lethe Wyvern, on 10 July 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

That is about zen, imo.

Thank you!

What I was getting at is that early on my preferred mechs were in the 65-85 ton class exclusively. That lasted til about mid T3 and then I had this long spell in the 45-60 ton class. That lasted til the KFX-G(L), and ever since then I tend to gravitate to 30-45 ton mechs such as the Cougar, Javelin, and KFX-G. Then The Flea dropped. And I’ve been Scratching That Itch ever since. I don’t have Piranhas, but have a Pirate’s Bane and it’s just not the same. Something about the Flea 17 and R5K I seem to like. I can’t put my finger on it-they just seem to have this alchemical mix of *just* enough speed, *just* enough armor, *just* enough firepower, and *just* small enough to work for me about 70% of the time when fully skilled out. I have those zero (literally) damage matches where I get hunted down from jump and obliterated, but I also have these weird fun gunfights in them too. I can’t explain it.

I run MCIIs and MAD-IICs and Victors and Night Gyrs etc etc often too, but I find myself coming back to the 20-35 ton bracket again and again, especially in group queue.

[Mister Maf]

The poll is either missing an option for agreeing with the status quo, or I'm not understanding the current options. It's also missing options for light pilots' opinions.

I think lights are in a good spot in their current role of completing objectives, harrassing, and completing the circular food chain of Lights < Mediums < Heavies < Assaults < Lights, even if this contradicts canon. Otherwise, Assaults are just The Best with no actual counter besides other assaults.

That said, Piranha in particular needs a nerf big time.

Edited by Mister Maf, 13 July 2018 - 03:45 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Mister Maf, on 13 July 2018 - 03:44 AM, said:

That said, Piranha in particular needs a nerf big time.

Weird. I see those statements always from people who hardly play light mechs.

[LowSubmarino]

Lights are fantastic for punishing even slight positional errors. Disrupt enemy nascar very early. Placing uavs in the middle of a huge blob of red.

As tiny light you can completly stop an assault mech with all its armor and firepower. If you engage it, firing into its back or side, itll have to turn around. Even if you dont have good terrain to strike it down from unexpected angles to avoid its alpha load into your face, it wont be able to effecively disengange. Itll have to either wait for you to show yourself or it can slowly walk backwards. Which basically translates to: That assault is not at the frontline. Not concentrating its considerable firepower on your own bigger and easier to hit heavies and assaults.

Right then and there, even if you cant engage that assault that turned around, you are providing a huge service. Thats one assault mech less your team has to deal with.

And since mwo players in pug games cant help but to fall behind their team or isolate themselves in 95 % of all matches, you can always punish that. Take one or even two (if you are good) out of the match. Even occupying one single assault for 20 seconds can be very effective. That alone is huge. More than huge.

You provide intel.

Any semi-good player will suck that intel up with a bon** in his pants and use that intel. To go to relevant positions, to support a weaker flank where team red is assembling and so on and so on.

Intel is invaluable.

Only nööbish cannonfoddernoobs that aimlessly wander about wont even react to intel. No matter what you show them. They just move in some random direction.

But since that happens a lot, you will have a field day in QP as a light. You can punish positional errors or bad/slow nascaring of team red basically as soon as you drop. You run straight to where most nascar movements occur. Run right up the nascar tail of team red. And in 8 or 9 out of 10 times you will have isolated, slow mechs, that either just started to try and catch up or worse still didnt even realize that they are in a terrible spot.

As terrible that spot is and as obvious as it is (in every match) you will always, almost always have mechs that are terribly exposed.

Lights are a nightmare for this confused, slow, exposed playstyle.

You can rack up dmg, take out huge mechs without even engaging them.

One very common and potent strategy is to have 2 very fast lights run directly to team reds nascar route. Rest of team doesnt take the usual nascar, mostly counter clockwise route, but actually buiilds a firing line waiting for team reds nascar.

All the while those 2 lights have probably at least slowed down 1 + big slow mechs. Cause the biggest mechs are always in the back. Considerably weakening team reds front line potential.

Easy move that can win the game a lot of times. Unlesss you have multiple experienced players in team red. They know that move. They do it too. And they might even ambush your lights.

Not all pug teams suck hard. Not all of them are weak cannnonfodder noobs that barely break 12 dmg.

Quite a few are not bad.

But taht is still a very easy and strong strategy. A pug team just using this single strat over and over will win 7 or 8 out of 10 pug games.

Not because the strat is so insanely powerful. But because puggers almost always stretch. All the time. Falling behind. Exposing the biggest mechs.

If you take that into consideration, then lights are actually more, much more lethal than an assault mech.

But it depends on the time that has elapsed. In early phase lights can be lethal. Stronger, more dangerous than assaults.

In other stages they can be very useful too.

And sometimes you cant do much, casue there is a firing line, they know exactly where you are and even peeking could instatnly kill you. Or theres too much open terrain or you have a team red that actually doesnt do random stupid stuff but has a formation and they look in all diretions.

Thats no good for a light. Unless you are a sniper.

But in this day and age, 2 large lasers on a light.....thats a wasted light.

In my experience you start to dish out sgnificant dmg when you have at the very least 16 dhs. 17 or 18 or 19 would be better. With 17 DHS and skilled for heat, I can dish out very good dmg in sniper builds. But you need more podspace for that than lights can offer. You can distract a bit from afar. But you are much, much more useful x 100 if you use a light to brutally punish the mistakes team red will do in almost any game. Eg occupying an assault mech and thus saving your team from its firepower.

That is why lights are prolly one of the strongest classes in mwo.

If we had more realistic maps, much bigger maps, with sott targest that needed protection, convoys and so on.....lights would be a nightmare. And evybody would fear them more than 100 Annihilators.

But even in these claustrophic environements, even though their potential is greatly hampred (e.g. solaris maps but also normal maps) they are still very potent. Still one of the strongst classes.

[Lethe Wyvern]

LowSubmarino, on 13 July 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Spoiler

Lights are fantastic for punishing even slight positional errors. Disrupt enemy nascar very early. Placing uavs in the middle of a huge blob of red.

As tiny light you can completly stop an assault mech with all its armor and firepower. If you engage it, firing into its back or side, itll have to turn around. Even if you dont have good terrain to strike it down from unexpected angles to avoid its alpha load into your face, it wont be able to effecively disengange. Itll have to either wait for you to show yourself or it can slowly walk backwards. Which basically translates to: That assault is not at the frontline. Not concentrating its considerable firepower on your own bigger and easier to hit heavies and assaults.

Right then and there, even if you cant engage that assault that turned around, you are providing a huge service. Thats one assault mech less your team has to deal with.

And since mwo players in pug games cant help but to fall behind their team or isolate themselves in 95 % of all matches, you can always punish that. Take one or even two (if you are good) out of the match. Even occupying one single assault for 20 seconds can be very effective. That alone is huge. More than huge.

You provide intel.

Any semi-good player will suck that intel up with a bon** in his pants and use that intel. To go to relevant positions, to support a weaker flank where team red is assembling and so on and so on.

Intel is invaluable.

Only nööbish cannonfoddernoobs that aimlessly wander about wont even react to intel. No matter what you show them. They just move in some random direction.

But since that happens a lot, you will have a field day in QP as a light. You can punish positional errors or bad/slow nascaring of team red basically as soon as you drop. You run straight to where most nascar movements occur. Run right up the nascar tail of team red. And in 8 or 9 out of 10 times you will have isolated, slow mechs, that either just started to try and catch up or worse still didnt even realize that they are in a terrible spot.

As terrible that spot is and as obvious as it is (in every match) you will always, almost always have mechs that are terribly exposed.

Lights are a nightmare for this confused, slow, exposed playstyle.

You can rack up dmg, take out huge mechs without even engaging them.

One very common and potent strategy is to have 2 very fast lights run directly to team reds nascar route. Rest of team doesnt take the usual nascar, mostly counter clockwise route, but actually buiilds a firing line waiting for team reds nascar.

All the while those 2 lights have probably at least slowed down 1 + big slow mechs. Cause the biggest mechs are always in the back. Considerably weakening team reds front line potential.

Easy move that can win the game a lot of times. Unlesss you have multiple experienced players in team red. They know that move. They do it too. And they might even ambush your lights.

Not all pug teams suck hard. Not all of them are weak cannnonfodder noobs that barely break 12 dmg.

Quite a few are not bad.

But taht is still a very easy and strong strategy. A pug team just using this single strat over and over will win 7 or 8 out of 10 pug games.

Not because the strat is so insanely powerful. But because puggers almost always stretch. All the time. Falling behind. Exposing the biggest mechs.

If you take that into consideration, then lights are actually more, much more lethal than an assault mech.

But it depends on the time that has elapsed. In early phase lights can be lethal. Stronger, more dangerous than assaults.

In other stages they can be very useful too.

And sometimes you cant do much, casue there is a firing line, they know exactly where you are and even peeking could instatnly kill you. Or theres too much open terrain or you have a team red that actually doesnt do random stupid stuff but has a formation and they look in all diretions.

Thats no good for a light. Unless you are a sniper.

But in this day and age, 2 large lasers on a light.....thats a wasted light.

In my experience you start to dish out sgnificant dmg when you have at the very least 16 dhs. 17 or 18 or 19 would be better. With 17 DHS and skilled for heat, I can dish out very good dmg in sniper builds. But you need more podspace for that than lights can offer. You can distract a bit from afar. But you are much, much more useful x 100 if you use a light to brutally punish the mistakes team red will do in almost any game. Eg occupying an assault mech and thus saving your team from its firepower.

That is why lights are prolly one of the strongest classes in mwo.

If we had more realistic maps, much bigger maps, with sott targest that needed protection, convoys and so on.....lights would be a nightmare. And evybody would fear them more than 100 Annihilators.

But even in these claustrophic environements, even though their potential is greatly hampred (e.g. solaris maps but also normal maps) they are still very potent. Still one of the strongst classes.

Thank you for expanded answer!

Mister Maf, on 13 July 2018 - 03:44 AM, said:

The poll is either missing an option for agreeing with the status quo, or I'm not understanding the current options. It's also missing options for light pilots' opinions.

Last option in the poll is for special purpose, you can use it.

Bush Hopper, on 13 July 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

Weird. I see those statements always from people who hardly play light mechs.

Not always, but often.

p.s. link to Poll

Edited by Lethe Wyvern, 14 July 2018 - 10:29 PM.

[mailin]

I looked at the poll but didn't answer it, mainly because the question are so badly worded. Sorry.

To answer the question and add to what has already been said though, lights are the toughest class to play for many reasons. The lack of armor and firepower have already been discussed. I would add to it that they are the most dynamic. The role of lights change depending on the game mode. That makes them unique. They exist in this game to provide a sense of dynamism that wouldn't occur of all we had were assaults and heavies. They exist to face the enemy and trade blows. Lights exist to find the enemy, look for weak spots, call out movements, and once the enemy is engaged or close to engaged harass the rear.

One reason that they are underutilized in MWO is not the fault of PGI. I maintain that it is the fault of the light pilots themselves. One of the reasons for lights is to provide intel whenever possible. The best way to do that is on comms and also requires pilots to lock their targets. The number of times I have been on a team and a light isn't doing those things is shocking. It has been previously stated that a light driver didn't want to give away his position by locking targets. He shouldn't be in a light then.

In defense of my Spider. I'd like to see a medium that can go 148kph, and has ECM and jump jets. There are some things lights can do that no other class can. Period.

[Appogee]

I got my Ace of Spade in a Light Mech with MPLs.

And it wasn't by scouting, capping, or tagging. it was by flanking, skirmishing and then brawling after the Heavy and Assault Mechs on my side had sat on their asses in their 'safe space', refusing to move til they were surrounded and killed.

Edited by Appogee, 15 July 2018 - 03:26 AM.