32 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

SFC174, on 13 July 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

I tried a 2 Gauss, 3 ERLL 2 ERML on my MCII-DS. Had to go somewhat slower than before and I didn't run any jump jets.

Played a round on Polar where I did 750 dmg, which is a lot against 4 mechs. So, on long range maps like that, yes, a 3 ERLL DS will be very, very mean. However, it ran hot as hell. It was cumbersome to play (I really hate the gauss shake - yes, I worked around it, but it's just so crude. It's one of the reasons I don't like playing HGauss builds either), and, despite doing all that dmg, it really wasn't much fun.

I think on hotter and shorter range maps it's going to be somewhat weaker, but I think that if you consider it on the whole, it will be one of the least affected mechs by these nerfs.

If you dont like gauss shake and windup it is almost as if we had CAC and CUAC in the game. I know its hard to live without that gauss velocity but when you get something you also always give something.

[Battlemaster56]

lazorbeamz, on 14 July 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

If you dont like gauss shake and windup it is almost as if we had CAC and CUAC in the game. I know its hard to live without that gauss velocity but when you get something you also always give something.

And dealing with hot UAC's is better when? It's already stupid hot with ERLL on the PTS right now even stacked with DHS I'm burning up using UAC's not gonna change that I'm gonna melt from my own weapons even more.

[lazorbeamz]

Battlemaster56, on 14 July 2018 - 02:02 AM, said:

And dealing with hot UAC's is better when? It's already stupid hot with ERLL on the PTS right now even stacked with DHS I'm burning up using UAC's not gonna change that I'm gonna melt from my own weapons even more.

If you melt then you should use CAC10, lb10 or additional DHS. What a surprise CAC10 isnt wasted in the grand scheme of things.

[Battlemaster56]

lazorbeamz, on 14 July 2018 - 03:04 AM, said:

If you melt then you should use CAC10, lb10 or additional DHS. What a surprise CAC10 isnt wasted in the grand scheme of things.

Mess with cac10 it ok but dont have the dps I need to make up the slots it eats, and Lbx's with lasers... That don't work out well for my experience.

[lazorbeamz]

CAC 10 still gives like 2 times better dps in comparison to a gauss. I know the velocity is too good to give up. As soon as you start using ERLL as your primary weapon, it becomes pretty difficult to sustain them if you add any ballistic on top of it. Becase a ballistic equals another 10 DHS that you could have mounted.

So there s always a choice. Gauss with shake and charge, low dps. CAC/lb10 with low range, poor velocity but ok dps. or simply put throw away those ballistics altogether and fill up with DHS. A large Targeting computer is also an option.

As soon as you start using erll there s always a drawback to your mech and choices must be made. Which is why ERLL spam is still better then a ERML spam.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 14 July 2018 - 03:25 AM.

[Josh Seles]

Just came from the PTS. I agree that the C-ER Med Laser is quite underwhelming now. I can't comment on Gauss because I stopped using Gauss quite some time ago solely because of the charge-up.

I'd say 6 dmg, 1.1 duration with heat/recycle adjusted accordingly would be a good C-ER Med Laser.
C-Med Pulse would be nice at 7 dmg with no other stat changes, given the above change.

As fun as the C-ER Large and Large Pulse ghost heat changes are, I can't support them.
I had my MAD-2C(S) unmodified from the live servers running 3 Lg Pulses, 4 Med Pulses, XL 340, AMS w/1 ton of ammo, and nothing but DHS and it just melts enemy components.

That said, Leaving the C-ER Large ghost heat limit at 2 but dropping the duration to 1.3 flat could work.
C-Large Pulse should not change from current live servers.

Last up, small-class lasers
- C-ER Small should have a 1 second burn
- C-Small Pulse should be unnerfed, but dealing 5 dmg instead of 6
- IS small-class lasers just need buffs, in general.

As a side note, in the live servers, I only really use Clan Large and Medium pulse lasers. These 2 are the only Clan lasers that I consider good to use. All others I consider underwhelming (SPL, ER Small, Micros), have too long of burns (Heavies, ER's), or are way too hot (Heavies, ER Med).

[SFC174]

lazorbeamz, on 14 July 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

If you dont like gauss shake and windup it is almost as if we had CAC and CUAC in the game. I know its hard to live without that gauss velocity but when you get something you also always give something.

Non-sequitur. The gauss shake is a garbage mechanic. It just makes the game look bad and it won't stop a good pilot from doing anything. Increasing the skill gap and making the cursor jump around like an epileptic gnat is not needed nor is it good for the game. AC and UAC have nothing to do with the conversation.

I don't know why you're so obsessed with unfunning the game, but it won't be much fun if the playerbase takes a major hit.

[Grus]

BTGbullseye, on 13 July 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Kicker is, that was primarily a dual LBX20 build with 6 ERML as backups... I think I would've done just fine without any lasers at all TBH.

Nope, 2rac5 2ac5 2ac2..

[Grus]

A Headless Chicken, on 14 July 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

Hi guys, just here to add on to the new Clan extreme range meta theorycraft!

3ERLL 2Gauss NTG
9ERLL DWF
5ERLL 2Gauss DWF
6ERLL NCT
3ERLL 3ERML 2Gauss Deathstrike
5ERLL HBR
5ERLL EBJ

Hail to our new 600m+ overlords!

So we gave up on midrange (RIP MLs and SLs) and now we have the new extreme range Clan build meta where we shoot LRM boats from outside their effective range and make it apparent that window licking is bad. If a brawl is forced then Clans just roll over but that's nothing new, is it?

And say bye to some heavies (Hellfire DoA? Possibly) but mostly to mediums and lights.

Yeah that won't work well on hot close range FP maps... especially if clan is defending... G/L

[Nightbird]

Strong mechs are definitely weaker. A little less alpha damage even when doing 3 larges, a little less speed with a smaller engine, a little hotter due to less DMG/heat and 1 or 2 fewer DHS. Trading with only 3 larges at range is a really bad idea against dedicated snipers with 6 ERs on clan and IS side.

All in all, some clan mechs that previous boated only C-ERMLs get nerfed pretty hard... into parity with IS light/medium mechs that also mostly suck with mediums.

Maybe after this we can finally get more energy points or quirks mechs like the viper and ferret.

[BTGbullseye]

Grus, on 14 July 2018 - 07:49 PM, said:

Nope, 2rac5 2ac5 2ac2..

I was speaking of my build, not yours. I was testing the changes, you weren't.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 14 July 2018 - 10:53 PM.

[Grus]

The Lighthouse, on 13 July 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

Erm.... it was a huge loss, before engine desync.

But As long as you are faster than Annihilators which can go as slow as 45kph, speed loss is not a big deal.

What is big deal is effective range increase of the build. Also you can save up heat by just shooting ERLLs and Gauss Rifles from the long range, but it is not that great in most of quick play maps. But it will be devastating in faction play maps.

So yeah, from my experience, I can say with a straight face, DS got slightly stronger, sucking the blood from lighter clan mechs.

20kph faster isn't ****... Clan mech's take longer to go from 0 to max speed as it is. So your going to pop a hill, shoot, and then relocate. At only 20kph faster, that IS mech will be on top of you befor you know it... or might even shoot you in the back while you are turned around running to a new position.. IF clan is on the defence in FW all IS has to do is brawl.. every time.. our mid range trade is gone.. out long range had been made stronger, but not strong enough to out weigh the loss at mid range. Our short range with lasers has been dead for a long while...
(Save boating spl in a nova)

[SilentFenris]

Grus, on 15 July 2018 - 05:52 AM, said:

20kph faster isn't ****... Clan mech's take longer to go from 0 to max speed as it is. So your going to pop a hill, shoot, and then relocate. At only 20kph faster, that IS mech will be on top of you befor you know it... or might even shoot you in the back while you are turned around running to a new position.. IF clan is on the defence in FW all IS has to do is brawl.. every time.. our mid range trade is gone.. out long range had been made stronger, but not strong enough to out weigh the loss at mid range. Our short range with lasers has been dead for a long while...
(Save boating spl in a nova)

When it comes to corner-peeking or hill-humping 20kph does not seem like a big deal. Where 20 kph does mean a big deal is team mobility. I will gladly take an extra 20kph in Faction play for the initial push past the gates on Boreal Vault; or when a Quickplay match turns into NASCAR. That 20 kph is means less exposure time and less damage taken during relocation.