76 replies to this topic

[Yondu Udonta]

Daggett, on 16 July 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

Uhm... how can this be proof? This was a staged match where everyone on both sides seem to run a lurm-boat, what did you expect? Also it took multiple LRM-boats a whopping 30s to kill that Raven. He only died because of the combination map+narc. Try that on Solaris please.

Staged match? We didn't decide to go make a private lobby and lurm the **** out of each other. It happened in FP in case you didn't notice. And seriously, try that on Solaris? What I am talking about is how quickly a mech can be deleted by multiple enemies sitting in cover just because someone has LoS or managed to narc/tag the target. Removing the threat of getting return fire while being able to dish out such amounts of damage is ridiculous.

El Bandito, on 16 July 2018 - 06:02 AM, said:

Mercstar sometimes drops in 12 man Crabs with AMS each, in Polar. Haven't lost to LRM boats when using those. There are counter measures.

Not sure if you guys have encountered lurms of this magnitude since the drop timings aren't the same. These guys are well coordinated with comms unlike lurming puglets. Of course units can run certain strats, but most premades are unable to.

[El Bandito]

Yondu Udonta, on 16 July 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

Not sure if you guys have encountered lurms of this magnitude since the drop timings aren't the same. These guys are well coordinated with comms unlike lurming puglets. Of course units can run certain strats, but most premades are unable to.

We faced plenty of 12 mans with LRMs on Polar. Less caliber units but they were on comms as well. Crabs rolled over them.

[Xannatharr]

I LOL'd

[Tarl Cabot]

AMS is available for all but 1 or 2 mechs. (one of them is a cicada )

[Grus]

Yondu Udonta, on 15 July 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/285251685

The only intention of this video is to show how ******* ridiculous and OP lurms are, for a weapon system that requires 0 skill. And what was that I heard? Lurms getting another buff next patch? **** off seriously.

wait, did he just...



ridiculous and OP lurms



with so many hard counters in the game and oh i dont KNOW A CRAP LOAD OF FORUM POSTS EXPLAINING THIS!

[MischiefSC]

El Bandito, on 16 July 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

I'll take 16% reduced spread over 15% reduced heat any day, TYVM. One allows me kill faster, while the other allows me to sustain longer. I prefer to kill faster.

Well, if you want to kill faster....

have you considered something from the direct fire section? Cuz it does that.

[Marius Evander]

Its fun for one of two games, but dis shyts gonna be happening for a year before it gets rebalanced

[Yondu Udonta]

Grus, on 16 July 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

wait, did he just...



ridiculous and OP lurms



with so many hard counters in the game and oh i dont KNOW A CRAP LOAD OF FORUM POSTS EXPLAINING THIS!

Perhaps you would like to look at the video first and notice the sheer amount of lurms before you consider shittalking cos it is pretty evident that ECM and AMS are insufficient in this scenario.

[C H E E K I E Z]

Edited by C H E E K I E Z, 16 July 2018 - 10:02 PM.

[Appogee]

Strap in boys, 'cause we're headed to...

[denAirwalkerrr]

TWIAFU, on 16 July 2018 - 03:57 AM, said:

Funny AF to watch the enemy side sit there and let you lerm them, potatoes in a barrel.

Easy to smash potatoes that are a bunch of unorganized cowards.

Easy to smash potatoes that do not or can not prepare for lermtards on the lermtard map.

Of course everyone blames lerms, right or wrong, when it looks like the enemy did zero to counter the inevitable spam.

More to the underlying issues then just lermtards.

Lerms OP when facing spuds and teamwork OP when you turn the tables on them.

Enemies got polar for third time in a row and just yoloed in.

[MiZia]

Lol i saw my FP Opening Word and had to reply... o7 is past!

May Chris be with You is the new greeting!

And hope he eventually gets things done right

[Daggett]

Yondu Udonta, on 16 July 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

Staged match? We didn't decide to go make a private lobby and lurm the **** out of each other. It happened in FP in case you didn't notice. And seriously, try that on Solaris? What I am talking about is how quickly a mech can be deleted by multiple enemies sitting in cover just because someone has LoS or managed to narc/tag the target. Removing the threat of getting return fire while being able to dish out such amounts of damage is ridiculous.

My apologies, i was missing that this is the FP forum. So whatever i wrote was more from a solo QP viewpoint.

However i think a match with that many lurms on both sides is still somewhat extreme and both teams had similar initial conditions. I bet if they would have killed your narcer instead then the outcome may have been different.

I simply don't think that a weapon can be judged by extreme situations only. Imagine the other team would have run something else instead of LRMs and pushed aggressively to underrun your min-range, maybe even with multiple AMS support. Would LRMs still be OP in such a situation even when killing the first attacker quickly? Or with other words: If your team would play only LRMs on Polar for several matches against similar skilled opponents, would they be much more successful overall in the long run than with other strategies?

I admit that i don't play FP, but are there hard numbers that prove that LRM-teams dominate in most matches? It's just that a single match is not enough for me to judge anything.

The only thing i see here is that lurms are strong on Polar which is nothing new and not that bad since each weapon has advantages and disadvantages under specific conditions. That's why you would not bring an LRM Deck to Solaris where other weapons are more suited.

I'd really like to see an asymmetrical Polar match with both experienced teams where only one team goes heavy on lurms. Only if LRMs prove that they outperform all other strategies on Polar than i agree that there is a problem with 'em.

Until then i kinda like that LRMs as being the worst weapon in the game for many for a long time have found their niche.
They are still a bit too unreliable for QP with it's random maps and teams but when they are strong enough to have a place in FP, that's not necessarily a bad thing...

Edited by Daggett, 17 July 2018 - 02:17 AM.

[Grus]

Yondu Udonta, on 16 July 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

Perhaps you would like to look at the video first and notice the sheer amount of lurms before you consider shittalking cos it is pretty evident that ECM and AMS are insufficient in this scenario.

The only thing that is evident from the video was people on the blue team knew to bug around the ECM carriers and because of that they took minimal damage... (also looks like this was group que) so I'll shittalk as I please good sir.

[El Bandito]

MischiefSC, on 16 July 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

Well, if you want to kill faster....

have you considered something from the direct fire section? Cuz it does that.

At 800 meters in Polar, without exposing oneself to return fire? Good luck trying to find an alternative.

All this needs to work is to have a a good Narcer, and the enemy team is not in fast brawlers. Sure DF weapons are better than LRMs in general, but in niche situations, LRMs do far better job.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 July 2018 - 06:44 PM.

[Lykaon]

Yondu Udonta, on 15 July 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/285251685

The only intention of this video is to show how ******* ridiculous and OP lurms are, for a weapon system that requires 0 skill. And what was that I heard? Lurms getting another buff next patch? **** off seriously.

So here is what I saw.

A premade team concentrating fire on targets.

The weapons used were LRMs and that means that the focus fire attacks were taking probably five to eight times longer to kill than a direct fire weapon would have.

Also...

There was a NARCing mech in play as well.

And an ideal map.

Let's see a video of a solo pug match on mining collective ? or Solaris city? maybe River city or Crimson Straight? heck a solo pug quick play match on any map.

That very same team on the the same map with the LRM drop deck would have been halted dead in their tracks if there were any concentration of AMS on the enemy team. 1 AMS per mech would have shut them down.


And what buff? The tiny improvement of heat efficency at the cost of increased spread for clan missiles and you seemed to have either not noticed or failed to mention the AMS buffs.

The "buff" looks more like a net nerf to me.

Teir 4 perspective as well.

Edited by Lykaon, 17 July 2018 - 10:12 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Lykaon, on 17 July 2018 - 10:10 PM, said:

So here is what I saw.

A premade team concentrating fire on targets.

The weapons used were LRMs and that means that the focus fire attacks were taking probably five to eight times longer to kill than a direct fire weapon would have.

Also...

There was a NARCing mech in play as well.

And an ideal map.

Let's see a video of a solo pug match on mining collective ? or Solaris city? maybe River city or Crimson Straight? heck a solo pug quick play match on any map.


And what buff? The tiny improvement of heat efficency at the cost of increased spread for clan missiles and you seemed to have either not noticed or failed to mention the AMS buffs.

The "buff" looks more like a net nerf to me.

Teir 4 perspective as well.

I don't care how pugs do it. I also don't care how it does on other maps or game modes. The fact is it kinda breaks faction play on maps that allow LRM strats, and that's really annoying.

[Lykaon]

Yondu Udonta, on 16 July 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

Perhaps you would like to look at the video first and notice the sheer amount of lurms before you consider shittalking cos it is pretty evident that ECM and AMS are insufficient in this scenario.

<sigh> one could in a group queue situation opt to build a team that is very very VERY well shielded from LRMs

12 crabs could have 24 AMS on them. If all the crabs kept in formation retaining AMS overlap and simply pushed forward I would be quite suprised if any single mech was lost to LRM fire before you got in under the minimum range and ate the lurmers for breakfast.

Eisenhorne, on 17 July 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

I don't care how pugs do it. I also don't care how it does on other maps or game modes. The fact is it kinda breaks faction play on maps that allow LRM strats, and that's really annoying.

12 Crabs...24 AMS run at them....win solution!


If you think Lurming takes no skill the counter option is literally put on 2 AMS and press W.

Edited by Lykaon, 17 July 2018 - 10:20 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Lykaon, on 17 July 2018 - 10:18 PM, said:

<sigh> one could in a group queue situation opt to build a team that is very very VERY well shielded from LRMs

12 crabs could have 24 AMS on them. If all the crabs kept in formation retaining AMS overlap and simply pushed forward I would be quite suprised if any single mech was lost to LRM fire before you got in under the minimum range and ate the lurmers for breakfast.




12 Crabs...24 AMS run at them....win solution!


If you think Lurming takes no skill the counter option is literally put on 2 AMS and press W.

Yes, that would kill a LRM strat in faction play. The problem is, you do not know who you're dropping against, and what they're bringing. If you bring your 12 crabs against a team that goes ANYTHING BUT LRM spam, then you are going to lose. ER Larges are also common and will cut them apart. You don't know who you're playing against, and you don't know what they're bringing. You can't just blind counter LRM spam with a very specific strategy that will lose against other common strategies.

[Lykaon]

Eisenhorne, on 17 July 2018 - 10:24 PM, said:

Yes, that would kill a LRM strat in faction play. The problem is, you do not know who you're dropping against, and what they're bringing. If you bring your 12 crabs against a team that goes ANYTHING BUT LRM spam, then you are going to lose. ER Larges are also common and will cut them apart. You don't know who you're playing against, and you don't know what they're bringing. You can't just blind counter LRM spam with a very specific strategy that will lose against other common strategies.

I didn't realize that crabs suddenly sucked when being used for purposes other than twin AMS...

If ER-lrg lasers are so scary then pack three on the Crab with the twin AMS. now you can shoot back IF the enemy isn't LRMing but instead ER-lrg lasering.

The chassis is strong in it's own right and you are not at a serious disadvantage by using a Crab.

I hear excuses to shoot down solutions to minor problems.