66 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

MischiefSC, on 17 July 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

I just played a map on Polar vs some of the more skilled LRM players you'll find outside of comp. They brought a lot of LRMs - my side had NINE AMS total. 3 guys with 2xAMS and a 3xAMS Kitfox. We just sorta moved up in a tight bundle and shot the LRM boats last. It was effectively 12 v 8. We didn't even bother much with cover, we didn't have to. The biggest threat was the LL boating Stalker.

Admittedly I was also luckily on a pug team that stuck together and followed calls. However, NINE AMS. At one point I was laughing like a maniac watching 200+ tubes worth of LRMs arcing up in the sky and back toward me just.... dissolve. I was probably taking 10-15 LRMs out of each salvo of 200 or so.

Well done. Hope those know-nothings who insisted that each player bringing an AMS will do nothing against massed LRM fire will now know things better. AMS works, even if it is just a single one per person. All I care about is that players are now more aware of AMS' usefullness, which makes me happy.

[SlippnGriff]

cant stop the clag carry

[The6thMessenger]

PGI logic at it's finest.

[UnofficialOperator]

LRMS not working guys! We need to buff it moar!!!

[Sorbic]

Novakaine, on 17 July 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

Never shoot at the mech with or near the ams bubble

It pains me when I watch someone chain fire LRMs into a multi-ams bubble. Over and over and over...


For the love of god switch targets or if your button is stuck at least fire grouped so a few get through.

[Novakaine]

They made the so called heat generation for lurms a thing.
So they could buff up ams even more.
Who in the hell overheats firing lurms?
This was not a buff to lurms, but stealth nerf for them.
I see what you really did PGI.

Edited by Novakaine, 17 July 2018 - 08:22 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Novakaine, on 17 July 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

They made the so called heat generation for lurms a thing.
So they could buff up ams even more.
Who in the hell overheats firing lurms?
This was not a buff to lurms, but stealth nerf for them.
I see what you really did PGI.

Lol my LRM boats are basically constantly heat capped after the first 30 seconds of firing or so. If I want to put fire on a target for like a solid 2-3 minutes, then I'm gonna melt myself.

[Sorbic]

Like with my direct fire mechs my LRM'ers would fluctuate between cool enough and having to pause firing to avoid overheating. During heavy fighting it's pretty much a constant hot mech.

[MischiefSC]

El Bandito, on 17 July 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

Well done. Hope those know-nothings who insisted that each player bringing an AMS will do nothing against massed LRM fire will now know things better. AMS works, even if it is just a single one per person. All I care about is that players are now more aware of AMS' usefullness, which makes me happy.

Played 26 matches today in QP. 4 in an AMS + LRMs Kitfox, 22 in a THD 9S with 3 LLs, 3 ERMLs, 2MGs, 2 AMS and 2 tons of AMS ammo. I lost all 4 matches in the Kitfox and won 21 out of 22 matches in the THD.

I only took the THD because I already had it built with 2 AMS. Would never say it's a spectacular mech. Just that I have never had this much success getting people to listen to simple logic in QP before. I'm sure people will get back to apathetically wandering off to die alone in a couple of days but today was like magic - tons of AMS around and tons of people willing to stick together and focus a bit, which in QP is pretty much just like haxx.

[Phoenix 72]

Lightfoot, on 17 July 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

uh, there was no LRM buff. Clan LRMs were nerfed again....
...
LRMs problem is they are so inaccurate they are only suitable for Assault mech LRM boats. They are even more so now so no, not a buff, a big nerf disguised as a buff.

Clan LRMs received a buff (less heat) and a nerf (more spread). IS LRMs only received the buff (less heat). That may be why some people call it a buff and others a nerf. Clan vs. IS, essentially.

A lot of people also say AMS was buffed. It was not. A while ago all missile launchers received a buff to their ammo count to make small ammo amounts more worthwhile. They seemed to have forgotten AMS. So at the time, it was essentially a stealth nerf to AMS. Which they now rectified, by giving the AMS ammo the same percentage improvement that the missile systems received.

[El Bandito]

MischiefSC, on 17 July 2018 - 09:39 PM, said:

Played 26 matches today in QP. 4 in an AMS + LRMs Kitfox, 22 in a THD 9S with 3 LLs, 3 ERMLs, 2MGs, 2 AMS and 2 tons of AMS ammo. I lost all 4 matches in the Kitfox and won 21 out of 22 matches in the THD.

I only took the THD because I already had it built with 2 AMS. Would never say it's a spectacular mech. Just that I have never had this much success getting people to listen to simple logic in QP before. I'm sure people will get back to apathetically wandering off to die alone in a couple of days but today was like magic - tons of AMS around and tons of people willing to stick together and focus a bit, which in QP is pretty much just like haxx.

BLR-2C, and the Jester are also good AMS mechs that packs some punch. STk-5S is also worth a try.

[Vellron2005]

MischiefSC, on 17 July 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

So it seems like the LRM buff has people taking a lot of AMS. For 7 games straight the team with the most LRMs lost, every time, and decisively.

People are realizing that shooting down missiles buffs match score significantly too. Do decent damage, get a couple of kills, shoot down 600 missiles and get a 500-600 match score.

My fear now is that people will stop bringing LRMs and the gravy train will stop before the irony of it stops being funny.

Don't worry.. I give this fam a week or two before it all dies down..

LRMs have been buffed and nerfed before.. it won't be long before people get tired of playing AMS kitfoxes and Novas, and go back to mounting extra heat sinks, ammo or lasers..

And if it does keep up, we'll just whine about it and get new buffs and nerfs..

[TWIAFU]

El Bandito, on 17 July 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

Well done. Hope those know-nothings who insisted that each player bringing an AMS will do nothing against massed LRM fire will now know things better. AMS works, even if it is just a single one per person. All I care about is that players are now more aware of AMS' usefullness, which makes me happy.

How long do you think until we hear "Nerf IS AMS"?

[Jman5]

El Bandito, on 17 July 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

Well done. Hope those know-nothings who insisted that each player bringing an AMS will do nothing against massed LRM fire will now know things better. AMS works, even if it is just a single one per person. All I care about is that players are now more aware of AMS' usefullness, which makes me happy.

Yeah, I'm glad the message is finally starting to sink in, but boy was it frustrating trying to explain to people the concept of "damage mitigation". Or trying to tell them diplomatically that if I'm getting smacked in the face by LRMs, ATMs, and Streaks pretty regularly, they are almost certainly getting hit by them too. Or even trying to point out that what goes on in the comp queue is very different than what goes on in the solo queue.

I honestly thought people would shut up about AMS being a waste when they introduced the counter to the scoreboard because the numbers spoke for themselves. A single ton of AMS ammo could chew through more than 200+ missiles. Now it's something like 300. That's a crazy amount of damage mitigation for yourself and your team for such a tiny tonnage investment. For half a ton of AMS ammo all you would need is to shoot down some combination of 32 LRMs, 16 streaks/SRMs, or 11 ATM missiles to pay for itself. That's nothing!

[HammerMaster]

When AMS was new, I guess the player base was more savvy. Because we did in fact called "move under the bubble". Why since the then the meta turds convinced people AMS is waste of tons and NOW it's hey bring AMS and move in bubble again. U get arms race and cycles but it just seems so braindead to me that it took the last 2 patches to wake people up this year!

[thievingmagpi]

HammerMaster, on 18 July 2018 - 04:51 AM, said:

When AMS was new, I guess the player base was more savvy. Because we did in fact called "move under the bubble". Why since the then the meta turds convinced people AMS is waste of tons and NOW it's hey bring AMS and move in bubble again. U get arms race and cycles but it just seems so braindead to me that it took the last 2 patches to wake people up this year!

Ams was nerfed heavily since the bubble days

[El Bandito]

TWIAFU, on 18 July 2018 - 04:11 AM, said:

How long do you think until we hear "Nerf IS AMS"?

Why though? It is the Clans that have triple AMS mechs. I'm just happy that better AMS awareness in recent times equated to less "NERF LURMS!!!" rage threads than expected. With luck Paul & co will not knee-jerk nerf LRMs anytime soon.

[Tom Sawyer]

Lasers, missles, daka rounds, heck snowballs. If you got a team that is willing to PUSH and stick together that team is likely to win against one that just sits back. Get 2 teams willing to push then you often get a great game where its often 12 to 10 score wise at the end. Every one wins in that it is often a ton of fun.

[Asym]

Don't worry EL, once pilots start adding AMS they will realize that they've lost a couple tons and slots adding AMS and they will start really complaining because they "need that space and weight" for another machine gun or something silly....

Oh yes, they'll remove AMS and the current use of LRM's will subside and then, in a few months, the cycle will repeat itself....

[Jman5]

HammerMaster, on 18 July 2018 - 04:51 AM, said:

When AMS was new, I guess the player base was more savvy. Because we did in fact called "move under the bubble". Why since the then the meta turds convinced people AMS is waste of tons and NOW it's hey bring AMS and move in bubble again. U get arms race and cycles but it just seems so braindead to me that it took the last 2 patches to wake people up this year!

People just suck at updating their priors.

AMS used to be worse, but more importantly it was super easy to just slap on a Radar deprivation module.

Then skill tree came. AMS got easy-to-reach skills that made it significantly better, Radar deprivation required you to invest a lot of points to max out, ECM got nerfed. ATMs came out, LRMs received plenty of buffs and skill tree enhancements.

Suddenly you had people running around without AMS, without radar deprivation, and against improved lock-on missiles. The world changed, but their thinking didn't.