77 replies to this topic

[Alex Morgaine]

Spooky heat limit increase would be nice...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Viking Yelling, on 24 July 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

Voted no.
A cool down of 4 would be better.

It already has a cooldown of 4........

[MechaBattler]

I voted 3 seconds. 2.5 seems a bit much. All the PPCs could use a little rework. Like snubs should be better for brawling. Or at the very least it should have 9.5 heat same as the base PPC.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 July 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

Except fiddling with range then puts you either into snub nose or ER territory

SNPPC has no minimum range. That is enough difference. PGI can also fiddle with velocity value.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 24 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

SNPPC has no minimum range. That is enough difference. PGI can also fiddle with velocity value.

.....wat

So you want to shorten the range of a weapon, but make sure it maintains minimum range (one of the many stupid holdovers from TT).........

You still have an issue in that they are competing for the exact same role and that one is the clear winner.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 July 2018 - 11:31 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Any buff to LPPC would be a welcome change. I really, really want to like that gun, but its sauce is just so... weak.

[FupDup]

I feel like shaving off a full 1 second right away would be too far. 2.5 seconds is definitely too far. I'd start with something between 0.5 to 0.75 and go from there.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 24 July 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

I feel like shaving off a full 1 second right away would be too far. 2.5 seconds is definitely too far. I'd start with something between 0.5 to 0.75 and go from there.

Would 2.5 honestly be too far? Like what is the worst case scenarios here with fast firing LPPCs? 2.5 would essentially allow 3 LPPCs to be like 2 HPPCs on chain-fire for half the tonnage which seems like a fair cost for not being able to fire anymore grouped up like that.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 24 July 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

Increase LPPC GH threshold from 3 max, to 4 max.

I'd like that only if PPC, ERPPC, and SNPPC gets 3 max. Else 2x PPC barely have any point cause it's lighter.

Viking Yelling, on 24 July 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

Voted no.
A cool down of 4 would be better. LPPC spam is already fairly capable on larger mechs, but is more of a derp build. Its also already better than regular PPC, being that, provided the hardpoints, 2 Lppc is 1 less ton and 1 more slot than 1 reg PPC which is better for light mechs.
And light mech snipers are already annoying enough with erLL. A 2.5 or 3 CD would only make LPPC better in dps than a Large laser, which isnt the purpose of the light PPC.

But we don't need it to be good at Derp builds, we need it as legitimately good builds. And while it's better for light mechs than a single PPC, it's still pretty bad mainly because poor damage/ton versus lasers.

Why shouldn't LPPCs have better DPS? It could be balanced by the fact that it's hotter, it has projectile than hit-scan? Lasers have different uses than PPCs. Unfortunately LPPC treads with the purpose of it's heavier compatriots that it's just always about which does the most damage in one go, so it will always be forever shadowed. By giving it a faster cooldown, provides a different playstyle that people would actively strive to go for than just being a question of which you can fit.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

I welcome anything to make PPCs suck less. Thematically I love PPCs and they feel really mediocre right now.

[Snowbluff]

I would rather see a buff in the form of lower heat, so it's better suited for lighter mechs to use.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Snowbluff, on 24 July 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

I would rather see a buff in the form of lower heat, so it's better suited for lighter mechs to use.

The problem for lighter mechs with LPPCs isn't really heat, it is damage output, or rather burst damage.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 July 2018 - 05:25 PM.

[LordNothing]

process, on 24 July 2018 - 07:22 AM, said:

3 seconds would be a good place to start to begin making the weapon feel useful. However, 2 LPPC shouldn't be better than a single PPC. Any cooldown reduction to LPPC will give them better DPS and tonnage versus worse heat efficiency and crit slots. The whole PPC family needs some TLC.

what the standard ppc lacks is purpose. its numbers are ok but why would you pick it over the other options? say we up its damage a little bit, say 11 damage for 10 heat to give a reason to choose it over the erppc. to compensate for that buff, bring its cd up to 4.5. also ramp up the minimum range linearly rather than abruptly. now its a jack of all trades weapon. you cant out alpha the hppc, you cant out dps the lppc, you cant out range the erppc, and you cant out brawl the snub. jack of all trades master of none (pardon the pun, it was not intentional).

i totally support the lppc dps increase to give it the same role as the ac5 in mechs that dont have the tonnage to carry one or more ac5s. lppcs currently dont stack well. 15 damage before ghost heat. running a 4th will tripple its heat output. thats just terrible alpha potential. dps makes it an energy autocannon and also differentiates it from the standard ppc while making up for its lack of boatiness.

the snppc is too hot for what it does, so it either needs to do more damage or it needs to run cooler, or both. since its a brawling weapon i would actually give it the splash that the cerppc has. something like 10+2 and bring its heat down to 9.5. then bring its range in a little bit to compensate (250 optimal, 500 max).

Edited by LordNothing, 24 July 2018 - 05:25 PM.

[Black Fish]

I feel like PPCs in general should have more purpose other than damage.
What if the ECM disrupt could be stacked instead of refreshed? or maybe it can jam enemy sensors, increasing their target info gathering time or decreasing radar derp time... I know they used to distort the HUD, anyone knows why it was removed? maybe it could be readded?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Black Fish, on 25 July 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:

I feel like PPCs in general should have more purpose other than damage.

Damage is all that matters. ECM disruption, affecting TIG or RD, or distorting the HUD are all pretty worthless additions when talking about impacts on balance.

[Dogstar]

Two words: Velocity Buffs!

If velocity were increased it would be easier to hit at long range with a PPC which would make it more worthwhile.

There's a reason that sensible poptarts only take ERPPCs (be it clan or IS) - because the velocity allows for much better accuracy

[The6thMessenger]

Dogstar, on 26 July 2018 - 02:13 AM, said:

Two words: Velocity Buffs!

If velocity were increased it would be easier to hit at long range with a PPC which would make it more worthwhile.

There's a reason that sensible poptarts only take ERPPCs (be it clan or IS) - because the velocity allows for much better accuracy

Right well, there's really other play styles than just pop-tarting. Also it will make much better sense with heavier weapons such as HPPC for the most damage at a single poptart.

[Black Fish]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 July 2018 - 06:53 AM, said:

Damage is all that matters. ECM disruption, affecting TIG or RD, or distorting the HUD are all pretty worthless additions when talking about impacts on balance.

But isn't it part of the balance problem that's going on these days (and the past several years)? If every weapon compete for the same one purpose, one will always be better than the rest. Today it's lasers, tomorrow it's UACs...
Why not introduce more ways to win - lowering the damage output of the enemy via 'crowd control' is a good start IMO.

[The6thMessenger]

Black Fish, on 26 July 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

But isn't it part of the balance problem that's going on these days (and the past several years)? If every weapon compete for the same one purpose, one will always be better than the rest. Today it's lasers, tomorrow it's UACs...
Why not introduce more ways to win - lowering the damage output of the enemy via 'crowd control' is a good start IMO.

The purpose can be modulated by the behavior of the weapon such as adjusting it's rate of fire. This is the same case with ACs, and this results into the ACs having different uses from suppression fire for AC2s, to the brawl-poke with AC20s, the AC5 and AC10s being in between. But the end result is HOW it provides the damage, because damage itself destroys the opponent in the game of what is usually death-matches.

Simple utility won't help for that matter, LPPC being mostly for hud disruption while contributes to the team for support, it does little for the lights so they could stand on their own, which is what we need them to do to pull their weight most of the time. Simmilar case for heavier PPCs, we need them to be dealing damage, not annoying enemy team -- for their weight they should be damn haymakers considering the investments we're doing.

In short, they need to be a threat, not a nuisance.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 26 July 2018 - 03:34 AM.

[HGAK47]

Daurock, on 24 July 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

I've always been of the opinion that PPCs are not meant to be fast firing, spammy weapons. They've always been Hot, Hard hitting, and long range, meant to be pinpoint, and not meant to be used gratuitously. If I want to spam fire, I would gravitate towards ACs and Pulse Lasers. As such, I'm not big on buffing the cooldown of the LPPC, or any PPC for that matter.

I do agree though, that several PPCs, including the LPPC need a little bit of help when compared to the plethora of lasers out there. The Light PPC would would be fine with a simple damage buff, (Probably to 6 or so, with a corresponding rise in heat) which would make the weapon a Lighter weight, but harder hitting for the tonnage Standard PPC. To keep it from replacing the PPC in masse, keep the ghost heat limits low, to force stagger fire if you're boating more than 3 of them.
As for my opinions on the other PPCs, the Snub could use an improvement in the heat department, (Making it actually useful for its intended short range) and the Standard PPC could use a 1ish point Damage buff. The clan one, and HPPC are actually OK right now, IMO.

Man in my opinion the Clan ERPPC is the best one in the game. I love that thing over all the IS ones.