54 replies to this topic

[S O L A I S]

Daggett, on 27 July 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

While this looks insane, the question is if this would work so well against a coordinated team too.
The opposing team was already quite close, often less than 500m. I wonder what happened if they would have pushed together instead of just standing outside the volcano. They also only had a single AMS which currently is probably wrong on such lurm-friendly maps.

So this particular example was against a weak team that didn't even try to fight back, i'd like to see a match against better opponents who already adapted to LRMs on certain maps.

Yup it does on this map.

The other team as well were not of the same caliber but they were not complete potatoes either and most of them were in the same group (we faced them several times that day). If we had tried this a few months back before the buffs we more than likely would have lost instead of dominating.

It's also really easy to sit back and say 'well the other team was terrible'. They were mostly together save for a couple of their lurmboats getting ready to push in with all of that IS armor which is very effective these days in CW. What would they have happened if they had pushed? Nothing. PGI talks about ttk and yet in this video you have Anni's evaporating. The mechs in the video were dying in about 6 or 7 seconds after being targeted and check how long it took to get to 8 kills...the clip is two minutes long.

AMS? Yeah absolutely useless when you have multiple assaults with 80 tubes letting loose. While AMS is gaining some popularity, it's effectiveness is very situational. Works great if you are running 12 crabs with dual AMS (<3 u Xavier) in a rush and great if you have a bunch of you doing it on Polar or Boreal and the other team a well rounded team with only four or five lurmboats. It's an entirely different situation though when you have a narcer and 9 or 10 boats focusing down the same target. Too be really effective as well it would require the team to be too balled up under their umbrella (ella ella eh eh oh) and they'd end up getting air striked to death and unable to fight.

So while there are still all kinds of things that you can do differently on this map to combat this (when not goofing off have taken to bring erlarge mechs and Assassins/Arctic Wolves) most of those counters are not conducive to fun and exciting matches, or are just outright cheese which won't work if the other team isn't full lurmtard.....

While you may be inclined to offhandedly dismiss what you see here, you are wrong to do so. There's more going on here than what is on the surface. Biggest being how it effects game play, as you mentioned teams being prepared, which in this case would mean duking it out at range and not being able to move around the map very well. This current state has done the opposite of what I thought PGI told us their goals were for the game.

[S O L A I S]

Khobai, on 26 July 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

Please no. Having to hide from indirect LRMs for 3-4 minutes at a time would simply not be fun.

NARC should only last for 1 minute at most. But I agree it needs more ammo per ton.

I also think NARC should do more. NARC should explode for 6-8 damage when its duration expires. You should also be able to manually detonate it. And when it explodes it should have a disruption/scramble effect on the attached mech's HUD/sensors (their HUD should go all wonky and their sensors should cut out for a few seconds). PPCs should also get a skill tree unlock for the same type of HUD disruption ability.

By combining the homing pod, explosive pod, and scramble pod into one ammo type, that would give NARC some much needed added utility.


And for TAG they need to add ARROWIV to the game. The primary purpose of TAG should be guiding in ARROWIVs.

Yeah watch the video. I am being overtly silly about the 3-4 minute thing. Some ammo love though would be something I actually support a bit, especially for IS mechs as it is hard (for CW at least) to make a narc Raven that has enough narcs to last and decent back up weapons. Most end up making them stealth and dedicated to narcing.

[S O L A I S]

Eisenhorne, on 27 July 2018 - 06:59 PM, said:

You misunderstand... I was on the LRM team. It was like clubbing baby seals.

Luls how many AMS Kitfoxes did we evaporate last time you and I were on Polar in the 8R's?

Outside of fast dual AMS Crab rushes, I can't believe people do not understand that an entire team chalked full of AMS makes so little difference when facing a stacked lurm team in CW.

[Phoenix 72]

S O L A I S, on 27 July 2018 - 11:49 PM, said:

Outside of fast dual AMS Crab rushes, I can't believe people do not understand that an entire team chalked full of AMS makes so little difference when facing a stacked lurm team in CW.

It's very easy. Most people in the world think "Well, if I can do it, everybody can. If they cannot, they are stupid, lazy, whatever. If I do not have a problem, they do not have a problem either and should stop whining." It is very rampant on this board. A little more compassion would work wonders.

I practiced martial arts for years. I can break wooden boards with my fist. Others cannot. Does not make me better or worse. Does not make anybody that cannot do this stupid or lazy. You could even argue that my skillset is more relevant, because there are more people practicing martial arts who are capable of doing this as well than there are people playing MWO.

I am always a little taken aback when other people's experiences are mocked and/or dismissed out of hand, no matter what the topic. People have different opinions. They disagree. That's fine. There is no need to be mean about it.

I rarely die to LRMs. A lot of times it is not an issue for me. But I can understand people that have a problem with it. And I am willing to do something to accomodate them. I currently mostly play Mechs with a minimum of 1 AMS, mostly 2-3. If I do not bring an AMS, I bring ECM. Yes, my performance suffers a little, but I am willing to live with a 20 point lower match score if it helps us win the match.

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 28 July 2018 - 12:48 AM.

[El Bandito]

S O L A I S, on 27 July 2018 - 11:49 PM, said:

Outside of fast dual AMS Crab rushes, I can't believe people do not understand that an entire team chalked full of AMS makes so little difference when facing a stacked lurm team in CW.

Mercstar Crabs use only single AMS and we crushed every single LRM comp we faced against. Our Linebackers don't use AMS and we crushed every single LRM comp we faced against. As long as you know the other side is likely to bring LRMs, and have time to prepare for it, you can beat LRM teams in FP and GQ very reliably, without having everyone carry dual AMS.

[Judah Malganis]

Quote

Mercstar Crabs use only single AMS and we crushed every single LRM comp we faced against. Our Linebackers don't use AMS and we crushed every single LRM comp we faced against. As long as you know the other side is likely to bring LRMs, and have time to prepare for it, you can beat LRM teams in FP and GQ very reliably, without having everyone carry dual AMS.

Yea, the key is not to panic. At least QP, players have a tendency to freeze or retreat when confronted with LRMs, even if the boat is just 300m away and could be easily pushed on.

[S O L A I S]

El Bandito, on 28 July 2018 - 01:06 AM, said:

Mercstar Crabs use only single AMS and we crushed every single LRM comp we faced against. Our Linebackers don't use AMS and we crushed every single LRM comp we faced against. As long as you know the other side is likely to bring LRMs, and have time to prepare for it, you can beat LRM teams in FP and GQ very reliably, without having everyone carry dual AMS.

Absolutely and my point is rushing is strong against lrm boats and can catch folks off guard in general.

As well we have lurmed MS to pieces on several occasions, although not against Crabs or Linebackers.

[Tarl Cabot]

Tis not the new meta. PGI made a positive and negative change to is, bringing it up front, into focus.. that and most players had ditched AMS and the skill tree dealing with sensors tree.

[Emden]

LRMs are OP and breaking the game.... ROFL... ever hear about AMS or ECM??? Those who cry LRMs are bad, never invest a few tons into AMS or take ECM mechs.... double and triple AMS rocks... if everyone took AMS, LRMs will be useless.. No other weapon have counter measures, except missiles...

Edited by Emden, 28 July 2018 - 08:21 PM.

[S O L A I S]

Emden, on 28 July 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

LRMs are OP and breaking the game.... ROFL... ever hear about AMS or ECM??? Those who cry LRMs are bad, never invest a few tons into AMS or take ECM mechs.... double and triple AMS rocks... if everyone took AMS, LRMs will be useless.. No other weapon have counter measures, except missiles...

AMS....luls. Still mostly a waste of tonnage.

Oh and not every mech has ECM and would be pretty boring if you forced to always run mechs that had it.

Cover is still the best counter to lurms. AMS Kitfoxes and Novas are garbage and a complete waste of a mech when you are facing a team with narcers and all of the missiles.

You probably only solo quick play so don't appreciate what matches on Sulfurous, Alpine, Boreal, and Polar have devolved into against actual teams of organised players. It's not good to put it mildly.

Thing is we used to have mobility and cerppc's, gauss/ppc to counter. Now what we have is people rage quitting in CW in record numbers. That's pretty incredible considering how common it was in the mode to begin with.

[El Bandito]

S O L A I S, on 29 July 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

AMS....luls. Still mostly a waste of tonnage.

Oh and not every mech has ECM and would be pretty boring if you forced to always run mechs that had it.

Cover is still the best counter to lurms. AMS Kitfoxes and Novas are garbage and a complete waste of a mech when you are facing a team with narcers and all of the missiles.

You probably only solo quick play so don't appreciate what matches on Sulfurous, Alpine, Boreal, and Polar have devolved into against actual teams of organised players. It's not good to put it mildly.

Thing is we used to have mobility and cerppc's, gauss/ppc to counter. Now what we have is people rage quitting in CW in record numbers. That's pretty incredible considering how common it was in the mode to begin with.

Meh, then the organized teams that run lurms in FP are just as much to be blamed. We at Mercstar do not dabble with such silliness--we prefer to give them our greetings up close and personal. Doesn't stop pugs getting pummeled by us and quit FP, but hey, at least we are not lurming, right?

Edited by El Bandito, 29 July 2018 - 12:26 AM.

[Emden]

S O L A I S, on 29 July 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

AMS....luls. Still mostly a waste of tonnage.

Oh and not every mech has ECM and would be pretty boring if you forced to always run mechs that had it.

Cover is still the best counter to lurms. AMS Kitfoxes and Novas are garbage and a complete waste of a mech when you are facing a team with narcers and all of the missiles.

You probably only solo quick play so don't appreciate what matches on Sulfurous, Alpine, Boreal, and Polar have devolved into against actual teams of organised players. It's not good to put it mildly.

Thing is we used to have mobility and cerppc's, gauss/ppc to counter. Now what we have is people rage quitting in CW in record numbers. That's pretty incredible considering how common it was in the mode to begin with.

So what you're saying, CW is being destroyed by lrms? I really don't think that is the only reason why CW is a total fail. Clan mechs and their ER large lasers and a whole team supporting them is a more deadlier than a team supporting LRMs. A 12-man team from the IS supporting brawling will destroy lrms as well. If you form a 12-man team, it is always good to support each other in every way. If your team does not support each other, do not blame teams that do. let us not forget to communicate with each other, that does extremely well too.

[El Bandito]

Emden, on 29 July 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

So what you're saying, CW is being destroyed by lrms? I really don't think that is the only reason why CW is a total fail. Clan mechs and their ER large lasers and a whole team supporting them is a more deadlier than a team supporting LRMs. A 12-man team from the IS supporting brawling will destroy lrms as well. If you form a 12-man team, it is always good to support each other in every way. If your team does not support each other, do not blame teams that do. let us not forget to communicate with each other, that does extremely well too.

Yes, teamwork + skill makes opposing pugs quit FP most of the times. Cause FP has no MM, nor it can support one. Do people honestly think pugs will have any fun facing a stack of EVIL+BCMC, or (MS) 12-man, LRM or no?

Edited by El Bandito, 30 July 2018 - 08:11 AM.

[General Solo]

people under estimate the power of narc
without it, lerms are another tier down
Tag doesn't come close

Ignore the narcer at ur peril

So killing the narcer is another counter I guess

PS: even a weak weapon in great quantity is strong, aka LRM80 Supernova, but dats ok its an assault mech it should be strong, cause you know assault mech

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 29 July 2018 - 06:12 PM.

[Novakaine]

El Bandito, on 29 July 2018 - 12:23 AM, said:

Meh, then the organized teams that run lurms in FP are just as much to be blamed. We at Mercstar do not dabble with such silliness--we prefer to give them our greetings up close and personal. Doesn't stop pugs getting pummeled by us and quit FP, but hey, at least we are not lurming, right?

Really ya could have fooled me.