1169 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

So I just listened the latest podcast about FP changes, at least a part of it, and have to say, looks like they finally realized we need more immersion into the lore..

But, however, I would like to just point out one thing - there was a "kidnapped princess example".

So let's say we get a mini-campaign, in which one faction kidnaps a princess from the other faction as described, and each player gets to pick which faction to fight for during that event.. who will ever choose to be the kidnapper? It creates clear-cut choices, and the "kidnapper side" will probably have few players and get roflstomped..

Also, they dismissed faction-specific mechs.. I don't see why that should not be a thing? Making mechs faction specific, and giving them a lower price compared to members of other factions is very immersive.

At least, give out mechs as part of FP rewards achieved with rank and LP..

[50 50]

Vellron2005, on 21 August 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

Also, they dismissed faction-specific mechs.. I don't see why that should not be a thing? Making mechs faction specific, and giving them a lower price compared to members of other factions is very immersive.

At least, give out mechs as part of FP rewards achieved with rank and LP..

Something to do with the inventory system in the back end though that might be to do more with having discounts from FP affect the store which is flat out... no.

On the not eof faction related mechs though, I don't see why they couldn't create some new mech packs with a light, medium, heavy and assault that is iconic to an individual faction.
Make them a new (FP) variant that has a special camo, a -5 FP drop deck tonnage modifier for players in that faction and a 10% LP bonus.
Not only does it give a nod towards the factions and lore and is a way to cheekily get in some new camo schemes.
But having a bonus to drop deck tonnage might mean that some of the iconic mechs might start to be seen in those factions in place of other options.
I would think that would work in nicely with the current event ideas and would be an additional incentive to bring focus to FP.

Edited by 50 50, 21 August 2018 - 11:40 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Vellron2005, on 21 August 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

So let's say we get a mini-campaign, in which one faction kidnaps a princess from the other faction as described, and each player gets to pick which faction to fight for during that event.. who will ever choose to be the kidnapper? It creates clear-cut choices, and the "kidnapper side" will probably have few players and get roflstomped..

They talked about the kidnapper side asking for a bounty. To me this would mean a larger cbill type reward if they won. This would normally pull mercs to this side.

If liao was the kidnapper i would stick with them as we have mostly stuck with each other.

My view mercs shouldn't even get the option of picking the side. They should get put where they need to fill holes and keep the balance. Due to this they would be paid more than everyone else.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 22 August 2018 - 12:44 AM.

[GoatHILL]

So if I understand this us Loyalist take right in the *** yet again.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Hi 50 50
yes thats like a very old idea by release of the FW before years... Decals, Medals or Fraction Camos or specific chassies a Victory Prices.

[SuperFunkTron]

50 50, on 21 August 2018 - 11:39 PM, said:

Something to do with the inventory system in the back end though that might be to do more with having discounts from FP affect the store which is flat out... no.

On the not eof faction related mechs though, I don't see why they couldn't create some new mech packs with a light, medium, heavy and assault that is iconic to an individual faction.
Make them a new (FP) variant that has a special camo, a -5 FP drop deck tonnage modifier for players in that faction and a 10% LP bonus.
Not only does it give a nod towards the factions and lore and is a way to cheekily get in some new camo schemes.
But having a bonus to drop deck tonnage might mean that some of the iconic mechs might start to be seen in those factions in place of other options.
I would think that would work in nicely with the current event ideas and would be an additional incentive to bring focus to FP.

I think the special mech pack and camo would be a real nice touch. I think if they did something as simple as offering different c-bill bonuses based on the popularity of a mech in a specific faction that it would also incentivize the use of Faction Specific Mechs we would also start to see some a little more fidelity to faction drop decks and finally some diversity in FP.

[Spheroid]

After listening to podcast #166 I got the bad feeling that FP is going to be morphed into a series of never ending mini-campaigns. While I don't dislike them, that is not a realistic or satisfying way of running an active multi-front war.

Are all factions going to take turns? Are small nations going to get the same number of events? We just had a so called Forth Succession War event. The actual 4SW was brutal, taking from Liao half its star systems. I want macro events not micro. Big changes in territory by big and powerful factions.

Podcast 166 did not address all the points raised in the forum discussion. Also who was asking for 2000 cap points? Since 1250 is the current number I think perhaps Paul misquoted the requested amounts. Don't you think 1500 was the more realistic test value many were advocating?

This podcast was incomplete. A part two is coming?

Edited by Spheroid, 22 August 2018 - 11:15 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

and im Hope thats not come to a never ending"jump the faction Event" than we can play in it like the Event in Moment
then we no longer need houses and factions, but just like in battlefield before each match we can choose the faction and borders and conflicts or planets are meaningless, because this morning's Kurita is already a Davion to fight

[Xaat Xuun]

if it does become just a campaign event type, then the Probation (10 Matches) needs to be removed

I can't really agree or disagree for such campaign type events, while some matches are fun, they bring more frustrations.

[Monkey Lover]

Xaat Xuun, on 22 August 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

if it does become just a campaign event type, then the Probation (10 Matches) needs to be removed

I can't really agree or disagree for such campaign type events, while some matches are fun, they bring more frustrations.

If youre a merc there shouldnt be any probation as you will work for the factions. If you're a loyalist it should be increased to allow switching only 1 time per season, with the one time option of going back to being a merc to next season.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 22 August 2018 - 05:37 PM.

[50 50]

@Paul
How hard/easy is it to change the rules in the Quick Play Group Queue or the Group function itself?

What I am interested to find out is:
A.) Can groups and by extension of that, teams, be limited to only allow players from a single faction?
B.) Can the Group Queue match maker be changed to prevent a faction fighting itself?

Edited by 50 50, 23 August 2018 - 01:38 AM.

[Vellron2005]

I like the proposed increase in immersion and lore in regards to FP, but this still is not gonna make taking planets meaningful..

We need an effort/planet holding driven economy.

Taking planets for your faction must reflect upon every single player belonging to that faction and their grandmother..

And the way to do that is with pricing of mechs and equipment, and possibly cbill and MC bonus payouts dependent on holding specific planets and total number of planets held..

[SuperFunkTron]

Vellron2005, on 22 August 2018 - 11:55 PM, said:

I like the proposed increase in immersion and lore in regards to FP, but this still is not gonna make taking planets meaningful..

We need an effort/planet holding driven economy.

Taking planets for your faction must reflect upon every single player belonging to that faction and their grandmother..

And the way to do that is with pricing of mechs and equipment, and possibly cbill and MC bonus payouts dependent on holding specific planets and total number of planets held..

For the lazy:

TL;DR : I think a step wise approach adding first superficial, then increasingly in depth and complex elements is the way to go. We should try to agree on a general outline of what we would like to see implemented in FP.

Details:
I've dug deep in to this topic for realistic solutions before and I think it'd have to be introduced a layer at a time so they can identify and tweak each element before adding the next.
For example
1. find a way to balance population skill/population between factions in conflict (not at all easy)
2. Create either a small cluster of planets or regions on a single planet each with a specific objective to be met (could be a way to allow people to choose what kind of game mode or show bars of what kind of mode is in happening in that area at the time so they have some chance at choosing)
3. Create a logistics system that reduces "available resources" the further out a faction pushes into enemy territory while having a timer showing how long it will take for the recently conquered planets to be reinforced and strengthen the supply line.
4. With 1-3 providing basic rules/regulation for how campaigns are conducted, increasingly more complex or situation specific elements can be thrown in i.e. lock loyalties for a season, allow members of factions to vote which side of an event battle they want to support, and create "political relations" bars that track and control what kind of interactions can be made with other factions. Lore could be a starting point, but the community could be allowed to organically play out the situation over the course of the season.

I think in order to get anything substantial done for FP, we first have to come up with a relatively short, bullet-point outline of what we would like for PGI to develop and start pushing for that. There is no need for implementation of a whole system at once, but taking meaningful steps toward a)creating discernible differences between factions (Faction Specific Mechs/logistical differences/inter-factional politics), a faction controlled campaign with logistical elements and regular events lead by PGI, and c) an IS map that creates a reason for specific campaigns to happen (i.e. factory to help reduced prices if the planet/region is conquered) and create political tensions through the consequences of choices made.

[Kin3ticX]

SuperFunkTron, on 23 August 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

I think in order to get anything substantial done for FP, we first have to come up with a relatively short, bullet-point outline of what we would like for PGI to develop and start pushing for that. There is no need for implementation of a whole system at once, but taking meaningful steps toward a)creating discernible differences between factions (Faction Specific Mechs/logistical differences/inter-factional politics), a faction controlled campaign with logistical elements and regular events lead by PGI, and c) an IS map that creates a reason for specific campaigns to happen (i.e. factory to help reduced prices if the planet/region is conquered) and create political tensions through the consequences of choices made.

A good deal of that was pitched by Bryan Ekman at the 2013 launch party....its just that PGI never could develop it. Included in that pitch was some level of economics and logistics.

which included

-prices vary on faction relationships
-black market prices
-access to cheapest prices
-planet territory gain/loss changes prices

I know they threw out all that stuff....but at one point it was the plan.

[SuperFunkTron]

Kin3ticX, on 23 August 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

A good deal of that was pitched by Bryan Ekman at the 2013 launch party....its just that PGI never could develop it. Included in that pitch was some level of economics and logistics.

which included

-prices vary on faction relationships
-black market prices
-access to cheapest prices
-planet territory gain/loss changes prices

I know they threw out all that stuff....but at one point it was the plan.

It sounds like the right time for the community to start pushing for a clear plan and set of objectives then. Now that the Solaris crowd has had their requests handled, it would be great to find first find out how much PGI has the ability to do, and then establish the points so the community can help provide some guidance as they start applying some of these layers of FP improvement.

[Spheroid]

Changes in component and or mech prices are completely pointless. Most people who play regularly have vast stables of existing mechs. The cost of new equipment is a non-factor.

You would be spending many man hours on a feature that would be invisible to most who play the mode.

Edited by Spheroid, 23 August 2018 - 10:02 AM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Spheroid, on 23 August 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

Changes in component and or mech prices are completely pointless. Most people who play regularly have vast stables of existing mechs. The cost of new equipment is a non-factor.

You would be spending many man hours on a feature that would be invisible to most who play the mode.

That is a good point. It could be applied in a different manner by providing a greater c-bill bonus for utilizing the corresponding mech in that case. If there was an interface that allowed you to see the increased pay outs for using either mechs specific to a faction or mechs that are now "available" by means of capturing a factory.

However, this raises the issue of capturing factories of the opposite tech tree. A potential fix could be increased pay outs to very specific mechs for the faction that captures (i.e. Clan wolf captures a jagermech factory and ends up getting increased pay outs for utilizing an atypical mech such as the night gyr).

It's really just a matter of deciding on which concept and then figuring solutions to make it work within the bounds of what PGI is able to do.

[Hierarch]

Pretty simple fix for making faction better is just fix the damn audio issues. Dude still calls down bombardments which isn't even a thing currently. Every other idea I have seems like it would be to much work for the minimal effort that is being looked for here.

I guess I got one more suggestion. Make it so in scouting the team trying to leave the scouting match needs to spend a minute in the square to leave. So that way you no longer have teams of 4 locusts/pirahnas grabbing all the intell hiding til 15 seconds are left on the clock then running it to get the win.

But to be honest this might be a case of to little to late.

Edited by Jack Cisco, 23 August 2018 - 10:39 AM.

[tutzdes]

Current event is less sucessful than the previous one. People seem to get a FP burnout due to FP event marathon. More importantly some people won't join the "fun" due to their "true loyalist" nature, some people are just switching to the winning side to avoid stomps and the other side turns into some kind of ghost town.

Only rare full-premades, who are not into loyalist stuff, are switching to the losing side for quicker matchmaking. There is no other reason to support the "wrong" side other than that, which is a major issue currrently as most people figured out who is going to win each VS day.

[Cato Zilks]

tutzdes, on 23 August 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Current event is less sucessful than the previous one. People seem to get a FP burnout due to FP event marathon. More importantly some people won't join the "fun" due to their "true loyalist" nature, some people are just switching to the winning side to avoid stomps and the other side turns into some kind of ghost town.

Only rare full-premades, who are not into loyalist stuff, are switching to the losing side for quicker matchmaking. There is no other reason to support the "wrong" side other than that, which is a major issue currrently as most people figured out who is going to win each VS day.

And thus Paul's vision laid out in the Podcast will be a disaster, because we we will all just be picking sides for each conflict all willy-nilly.