1169 replies to this topic

[The So-Cal Bronco]

Reasons why FP sucks.
1) Allowing teams to drop against solo que....I've lost 5 of the event matches in a row. Absolute stomps. After 5 matches my combined match score is 706. My match score has been typical of my team in these matches. I should not need to get my *** kicked 6 times to get my 750 for the event. I took three times to get a match over 150.... This is why FP sucks, its not fun to be on the sole end of a boot stomp. Honestly if I knew I was playing as 12 v 1 match I wouldn't have joined, which is why I stopped accepting the invites for FP play. I looked at joining teams, but the forums were all dead, so I don't know how that happens.

[50 50]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 17 August 2018 - 05:33 AM, said:

Our experience as a unit with global presence is that we need about 24 members in the Oceanic region -- extrapolate that out to about 150 globally, based on a very rough approximation of player distribution -- to maintain 24-7 presence in large FP events. Add in inactive players, new recruits and trainees, and alts and family friends and this number is closer to 200.

Actually wanted to ask you about this Kageru as I can understand trying to unite members under one banner but I don't really see it making any difference if the unit was split into 3 for NA, EU and OC regiments or even an Active vs Training regiment.
Particularly if there isn't any sort of tax on adding members.
Is needing to have the 24 hour presence more to do with how the tug of war works (or doesn't)?

It popped up a while ago and while it is just 'fluff' for the game, having a visible structure for the units would be nice.
Combine that with some management features such as being able to create associations with other units, and push a player from one to another would build on the social interactions between units.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

50 50, on 23 August 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

... Is needing to have the 24 hour presence more to do with how the tug of war works (or doesn't)? ...

Snipped for brevity.

Back when taking planets was cool, and especially for 24-hour (or longer) events, we would work together across timezones to ensure that any gains made during the NA period weren't lost during the OC and EU times. We could also easily bring in unit members to our groups as they logged on to fill gaps as others left.

The only times it was really important was really in 2015, back when "Faction Play" was "Community Warfare" ... the first battle of Tukayyid, the Hardcore Unit Challenge, and a couple of other events where "Unit Leader Boards" were cool.

The merits of diversifying (like 228th has done) rather than being more focused on one region (like RJF) or on mostly on one particular game mode (like KCom) or quantity (like -MS- in it's heyday) or quality (like EMP and EON) are debatable. (There are definitely other examples, probably better ones, but those are just the ones that came to mind first.)

The management overhead required, if we were to split into separate units would be noticeable but manageable, and we would survive. The main risk would be increased friction and alienation between our existing battalions (Black Watch, Swamp Foxes, Death from Above, Wild Ones). As it is, we all wear our [228] tag with pride.

[Tier5ForLife]

We had a couple of guys this morning this morning that had no idea where the Gens were or what they looked like, let alone that you have to shoot into the small window on one side.


I asked, "have you ever walked this map?" Well, of course, they never have. I understand that PGI is short of money and programmers or so I've been told. Plus something else that would be "redacted" if I say it.

If they were able and were serious, they would have an FW Acadamy. You would get C-Bills etc as a new player for walking the faction maps, finding and shooting the turrets and bringing the gates down. Then following the arrows to the Gens and Omega.

No one helps anyone in FW. I still find this amazing but I've been told a number of times to stop talking to the non-team members of our "team". I've been told to only speak in TeamSpeak and that is so wrong.

If nothing else this is hard for me because I have broken up hands and my left pinkie has a problem hitting the TeamSpeak button. Plus, during a match, I strongly believe in only using in-game chat and talking to and including everyone. Everyone says it is a team game yet they blow off 2-4 of the players of the 12 man team.

Can you imagine being in the Military and not talking or helping anyone else in your unit? This is one thing that comes from only .75% of Americans filling out the Military and fighting our wars in the last 15-20 years.

It has been rare but I've been in a PUG group where one player led the way to a win even though he had to get salty a few times. Anytime I see someone like this I quickly second his calls and help herd the cats.

Edited by LikeUntoBuddha, 24 August 2018 - 09:01 AM.

[Xannatharr]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 24 August 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

No one helps anyone in FW. I still find this amazing but I've been told a number of times to stop talking to the non-team members of our "team". I've been told to only speak in TeamSpeak and that is so wrong.

Can you imagine being in the Military and not talking or helping anyone else in your unit? This is one thing that comes from only .75% of Americans filling out the Military and fighting our wars in the last 15-20 years.

It has been rare but I've been in a PUG group where one player led the way to a win even though he had to get salty a few times. Anytime I see someone like this I quickly second his calls and help herd the cats.

I can't tell you how many times (especially during events) that I have taken a moment at the start of the match to explain the Gate, Generator and Omega Cannon mechanics on voip. I've heard others do it too and while it doesn't always help, it does seem to be useful most of the time. (Again, during events like this).

The Templars went 5-0 last night and we started with only 6 guys in the drop and worked our way up to 10 in the last match. So we had pickups with us every drop and did okay.

Had we faced some good teams in those drops the pickup players might have held us back, but most at least somewhat listened to the calls, stayed with the group and cooperated. Four different times a pickup player thanked us for calling at the end of the match and a couple said that was the first time they had been in a drop that was organized at all.

Veteran players - during events take a second to brief people on what they are supposed to be doing and then give at least basic calls.

Even taters can roll in the right direction if you point the way politely.

[Will9761]

Personally I wouldn't mind having Spawn Safety in the form of a Long Tom or a Spheroid Dropship. Though a Dropship like the Union would be better.

Edited by Will9761, 24 August 2018 - 11:37 PM.

[KingCobra]

Paul and PGI I have to say once again having great fun in the event when its solo/small group mix the games are very close and a lot of fun but as you can see by what's happening every event large premade groups 8 man-12man are just stomping the crappola out of everyone else just unbalancing the event and the fun players are having.

If your lucky to get in a large premade and play the events the games are same same just rolling solo/small groups and farming same thing for the last 5 years if your playing a premade and you ask how to fix this many have answered you just split solo players from groups totally or just allow solo players and up to a 4man group or 2 2man groups per side per battle.

I do hope you fix this issue fast as in the first patch you do for FP because a lot of player will quit playing FP as soon as they see its just the same old thing getting rolled 27/7 constantly by large premade teams.

P.S Plus Im sure by the many posts team players have made in this topic alone they don't want to play solo players or small groups and roll them for farming so make them prove it by just letting them playing there self's plus many of them are getting very rude and disruptive during these events being foul mothed and arrogant in games and just plain rude to other players like the fellow a few posts up and his Potato image.

Edited by KingCobra, 24 August 2018 - 01:56 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Will9761, on 24 August 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

Personally I wouldn't mind having Spawn Safety in the form of a Long Tom or a Spheroid Dropship.
https://mwomercs.com...op-or-long-tom/

A Union would be plenty, with the following limitations ...
- It must get its own locks. LRM spam is bad enough without another half dozen LRM 20s.
- It only fires upon enemies within optimum range. This would essentially mean that if you're outside of 620m, you're fine (except for the LRMs).
- It takes off after being on the ground for about a minute, damaging or even destroying any 'mech within the blast radius of its engines as it takes off. This should be long enough for even the slowest friendly assault to evac the dropzone.

[Cato Zilks]

Xannatharr, on 24 August 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

I can't tell you how many times (especially during events) that I have taken a moment at the start of the match to explain the Gate, Generator and Omega Cannon mechanics on voip. I've heard others do it too and while it doesn't always help, it does seem to be useful most of the time. (Again, during events like this).

Veteran players - during events take a second to brief people on what they are supposed to be doing and then give at least basic calls.

Even taters can roll in the right direction if you point the way politely.

LikeUntoBuddha, on 24 August 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

No one helps anyone in FW. I still find this amazing but I've been told a number of times to stop talking to the non-team members of our "team". I've been told to only speak in TeamSpeak and that is so wrong.

If nothing else this is hard for me because I have broken up hands and my left pinkie has a problem hitting the TeamSpeak button. Plus, during a match, I strongly believe in only using in-game chat and talking to and including everyone. Everyone says it is a team game yet they blow off 2-4 of the players of the 12 man team.

Can you imagine being in the Military and not talking or helping anyone else in your unit? This is one thing that comes from only .75% of Americans filling out the Military and fighting our wars in the last 15-20 years.

It has been rare but I've been in a PUG group where one player led the way to a win even though he had to get salty a few times. Anytime I see someone like this I quickly second his calls and help herd the cats.

The problem is not with the player base, it is with gamemode design. There is no reason to train people now because nobody cares about taking planets. If you care about taking planets, then you have a desire to see your side's puggles suck less. If it is just about killing mechs, just form a 12 man and rofl-stomp. Between, the static single queue, the all or nothing nature of the tug-of-war-system, and the terrible penalty free faction hopping, nobody gives a rat's *** about the map anymore. PGI has bankrupted the meaning from the gamemode and Paul's proposed changes are going to make that worse.

[Will9761]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 24 August 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

A Union would be plenty, with the following limitations ...
- It must get its own locks. LRM spam is bad enough without another half dozen LRM 20s.
- It only fires upon enemies within optimum range. This would essentially mean that if you're outside of 620m, you're fine (except for the LRMs).
- It takes off after being on the ground for about a minute, damaging or even destroying any 'mech within the blast radius of its engines as it takes off. This should be long enough for even the slowest friendly assault to evac the dropzone.

Honestly, I'd prefer if they were stationary. As the Leopard's flyby is a poor excuse for protection.

[Bishop Six]

call me Bronco, on 23 August 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Reasons why FP sucks.
1) Allowing teams to drop against solo que....I've lost 5 of the event matches in a row. Absolute stomps. After 5 matches my combined match score is 706. My match score has been typical of my team in these matches. I should not need to get my *** kicked 6 times to get my 750 for the event. I took three times to get a match over 150.... This is why FP sucks, its not fun to be on the sole end of a boot stomp. Honestly if I knew I was playing as 12 v 1 match I wouldn't have joined, which is why I stopped accepting the invites for FP play. I looked at joining teams, but the forums were all dead, so I don't know how that happens.

We are playing for many years and every FP veteran has a long friendslist. I go online, create a group, send about 20 invites and 11 people of them join...12 men group established.

[Mochyn Pupur]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 24 August 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

We had a couple of guys this morning this morning that had no idea where the Gens were or what they looked like, let alone that you have to shoot into the small window on one side.


I asked, "have you ever walked this map?" Well, of course, they never have. I understand that PGI is short of money and programmers or so I've been told. Plus something else that would be "redacted" if I say it.

If they were able and were serious, they would have an FW Acadamy. You would get C-Bills etc as a new player for walking the faction maps, finding and shooting the turrets and bringing the gates down. Then following the arrows to the Gens and Omega.

No one helps anyone in FW. I still find this amazing but I've been told a number of times to stop talking to the non-team members of our "team". I've been told to only speak in TeamSpeak and that is so wrong.

If nothing else this is hard for me because I have broken up hands and my left pinkie has a problem hitting the TeamSpeak button. Plus, during a match, I strongly believe in only using in-game chat and talking to and including everyone. Everyone says it is a team game yet they blow off 2-4 of the players of the 12 man team.

Can you imagine being in the Military and not talking or helping anyone else in your unit? This is one thing that comes from only .75% of Americans filling out the Military and fighting our wars in the last 15-20 years.

It has been rare but I've been in a PUG group where one player led the way to a win even though he had to get salty a few times. Anytime I see someone like this I quickly second his calls and help herd the cats.

Every now and then, an excellent idea pops up! Well written.

How about locking access to FW UNTIL you have walked all the maps at least once, twice or three times to familiarise the new FP player before being eligible for the FW queue (grey out the FW select button until completed - surely a simple single flag logic check)?

[Khobai]

Will9761, on 24 August 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

Personally I wouldn't mind having Spawn Safety in the form of a Long Tom or a Spheroid Dropship. Though a Dropship like the Union would be better.

I want a respawn gamemode like rush but one team has to disable a union dropship before it takes off and the other team has to defend it until it takes off.

there could be two refueling stations, taking out the refueling stations would slowdown the rate the dropship refuels, when the dropship gets to 50% fuel its weapons would come online. When it gets to 100% fuel it would take off and the defenders would win.

the union dropship could have its firepower split into three (or maybe six) destructible turrets each with 120 degree arcs to keeps its firepower somewhat balanced.


Id also like to see an asymmetrical base defense gamemode, kindve like incursion I guess, but only one base, and the base is in the center of the map and the defenders have to defend from all sides. But the base would have gates that have to be opened as well as turrets linked to generators that could be destroyed. A map like polar highlands would be ideal for that.

Edited by Khobai, 25 August 2018 - 01:32 AM.

[Roland09]

call me Bronco, on 23 August 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Reasons why FP sucks.
1) Allowing teams to drop against solo que....I've lost 5 of the event matches in a row. Absolute stomps. After 5 matches my combined match score is 706. My match score has been typical of my team in these matches. I should not need to get my *** kicked 6 times to get my 750 for the event. I took three times to get a match over 150.... This is why FP sucks, its not fun to be on the sole end of a boot stomp. Honestly if I knew I was playing as 12 v 1 match I wouldn't have joined, which is why I stopped accepting the invites for FP play. I looked at joining teams, but the forums were all dead, so I don't know how that happens.

FP doesn't suck. It's you.

[Horseman]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 24 August 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

A Union would be plenty, with the following limitations ...
- It must get its own locks. LRM spam is bad enough without another half dozen LRM 20s.
- It only fires upon enemies within optimum range. This would essentially mean that if you're outside of 620m, you're fine (except for the LRMs).
- It takes off after being on the ground for about a minute, damaging or even destroying any 'mech within the blast radius of its engines as it takes off. This should be long enough for even the slowest friendly assault to evac the dropzone.

Coming up with more and more elaborate ways to ensure spawn safety and somehow still force players to actually go outside of their cozy safe zone and play the mode does not address the actual causes of spawn camping.

Have you considered what are the reasons the enemy is spawncamping in the first place?
There are four.
First, in some modes it's the only victory condition - other than running down the clock - that a side has (see: Skirmish, Siege for the defenders).
Second, as unpleasant as it is on the receiving end, a suicide rush to deprive the enemy team of mechs is a legitimate strategy. It can be countered, forces them to split up and every mech trying to spawncamp you is NOT playing the objective.
Third, the enemy force gets more C-Bills and XP for killing your mechs than playing the objective and have no reason to cut the match short if they're already winning and there's time left on the clock.
Fourth, the enemy may be doing this simply because they like griefing - and if that's the case, no amount of penalties will change them..

How to REALLY fix it?
Variable drop zones - or simply the ability to switch to another dropship - are only a partial solution. They would help some maps/modes while being utterly unhelpful in others (see: defending side on Siege).
Having an option to delay your drop would allow your force to regroup within the dropships and drop multiple mechs at once, giving you a fighting chance instead of being fed one by one into enemy guns.
Incentivizing objective victory would go much further: if the enemy was rewarded just as much for winning by objective (bonus for each surviving mech on your side if the enemy player still has at least one mech alive) and saving time on the clock (bonus for time remaining), they would have better reasons to play the objective than waste time on killing off the remainder of your force.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Horseman, on 25 August 2018 - 02:39 AM, said:

Coming up with more and more elaborate ways to ensure spawn safety and somehow still force players to actually go outside of their cozy safe zone and play the mode does not address the actual causes of spawn camping. ...

Every time I've been accused of "spawn camping", it's not griefing (despite sometimes popular opinion, we at 228th want everyone to enjoy the game and keep playing), it's just that the other team got rolled over and curbstomped to the point that we are able to advance as far forward as their drop zone.

Being able to organize reinforcements by selecting your drop zone and/or delaying your drop would help diversify strategies in FP, and would be welcome.

It will take some pretty significant objective rewards to encourage us to not just finish the match in the most expeditious means available. The CB-per-hour for quick victories will always be better than drawing matches out longer.

Hopefully the newly discussed FP match maker will help balance the opposing teams a bit and lead to better fights and reduce the frequency of organized large groups rolling over the less prepared.

[Poor-Life-Choices]

Roland09, on 25 August 2018 - 01:40 AM, said:

FP doesn't suck. It's you.

Its constructive comments like this one that make this community so great.

[Poor-Life-Choices]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 25 August 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

Every time I've been accused of "spawn camping", it's not griefing (despite sometimes popular opinion, we at 228th want everyone to enjoy the game and keep playing), it's just that the other team got rolled over and curbstomped to the point that we are able to advance as far forward as their drop zone.

Being able to organize reinforcements by selecting your drop zone and/or delaying your drop would help diversify strategies in FP, and would be welcome.

It will take some pretty significant objective rewards to encourage us to not just finish the match in the most expeditious means available. The CB-per-hour for quick victories will always be better than drawing matches out longer.

Hopefully the newly discussed FP match maker will help balance the opposing teams a bit and lead to better fights and reduce the frequency of organized large groups rolling over the less prepared.

On the revised River city map, one spawn is right next to the citadel, where all the fighting happens. Its not a major effort to move the fight directly to the spawn and just eat the fresh mechs. Essentiall taking away 1/3 of the team. While that may be expeditious, its poor sportsmanship. If you team is up enough to push to the enemy spawn, then at least sit outside so those inside have a chance to group up. Killing mechs as they drop is BS and there is no justification for it.

[Poor-Life-Choices]

Xannatharr, on 24 August 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

I can't tell you how many times (especially during events) that I have taken a moment at the start of the match to explain the Gate, Generator and Omega Cannon mechanics on voip. I've heard others do it too and while it doesn't always help, it does seem to be useful most of the time. (Again, during events like this).

The Templars went 5-0 last night and we started with only 6 guys in the drop and worked our way up to 10 in the last match. So we had pickups with us every drop and did okay.

Had we faced some good teams in those drops the pickup players might have held us back, but most at least somewhat listened to the calls, stayed with the group and cooperated. Four different times a pickup player thanked us for calling at the end of the match and a couple said that was the first time they had been in a drop that was organized at all.

Veteran players - during events take a second to brief people on what they are supposed to be doing and then give at least basic calls.

Even taters can roll in the right direction if you point the way politely.

I've been the pickup player in a couple of matches. 2 lances were on a team. They kept all the direction on their private discord, didn't share it and left the other lance to die because we didn't know the plan. Guess what? They lost. I specifically asked for direction and they said "we will listen if you say something". That's just stupid. I've gotten great scores on teams that cooperated. Last night we had a team full of potatoes. We got a shot caller that played enough to provide some guidance and we kicked butt, and had fun.

[Eisenhorne]

bronco67coo, on 25 August 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

I've been the pickup player in a couple of matches. 2 lances were on a team. They kept all the direction on their private discord, didn't share it and left the other lance to die because we didn't know the plan. Guess what? They lost. I specifically asked for direction and they said "we will listen if you say something". That's just stupid. I've gotten great scores on teams that cooperated. Last night we had a team full of potatoes. We got a shot caller that played enough to provide some guidance and we kicked butt, and had fun.

They were dumb then. If you're not good enough to completely carry 4 players, the 8 man should have communicated. I've been on 8 man drops with very good players, we usually just tell our pug players to relax and not worry because we're going to win. And in 9/10 drops, we do (unless it's conquest, that can go either way if we get too focused on kills, losing to caps when we're 30-10 is funny). If they weren't good enough to guarantee a win, or not experienced enough to recognize if the other team had good players or not, they should have included you on calls.