1169 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

SilentScreamer, on 03 August 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

First, you have mistaken the term Mechwarrior in my post to mean the player of MWO. That is incorrect, as I am referring to a "Lore Mechwarrior", a soldier trained to operate a giant warmachine. Not a person role-playing an Online Video Game.

Two, Your post is exactly the kind of min/maxing I want to see LESS encourage in the game. We differ on opinion here. And yes, I do have multiple copies of some of my better mechs/chasis, which is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, but I would rather not have 5 different variations of the same mech just to be competitive in FP. "Keep the doors open by buying mechbays" only works as long as multiple environments that favor those builds are available. Better to support the game by making sure new players can establish themselves to complete without spending lots of $$$ on mechbays. You stop buying at 30 or 50 instead of 12 or 24. Keep the number lower, make FP more welcoming to players who have mastered 12-24 mechs.

Three. Paul already mentioned he is looking at Lore/Roleplay for a bigger role in Faction Play. Not everyone will like that stance, but it is what it is.

I don't think preventing people from matching their mechs to the map in FW is a good idea. As others have said this reduces the variety of viable builds and strats, and will reduce the need to group up, as everyone will just bring mid-range trade or dakka. It is nice to have more variety in gameplay because your group can decide to bring erll for a long range map, or set up for a ridiculous NARC and LRM match on polar. That variety, maddening as it can sometimes be, will die if the map and mode are unknown and FW will become a homogenized bore.

Edit: typo

Edited by Brauer, 03 August 2018 - 01:54 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

SilentScreamer, on 03 August 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

Slow down and re-read that post before opening fire on it ASH. Peiper's suggestion is based on chasis only, not build/equipment/loadout. Like the Solaris7 divisions PGI has setup.

Yeah but look at Solaris and balance, it's really not great. There are 3-4 chassis per div that are good and that's basically it (I've played a decent amount of it).

As I said a chasiss can be deemed to have a higher value, you put a junk build on it suddenly it's worth less than a bad chassis with a good build. This instantly breaks any semblance of a decent 'Value' calculation. Plus the overt complexities that come with it that I pointed out... It literally means another layer of balance for PGI and also understanding for Players. I can't see anyone in a logical frame of mind thinking that's good for anyone.

[Paul Inouye]

Here's a quick list of stuff that can be done pulled from comments here:

- Increase health in Incursion base buildings
- Higher ticket count in Conquest
- Call to arms timer change
- Game area indicator for Friends List (QP/FP/Comp/Sol instead of just "Deployed")

Investigating:
- More than 4 drop decks
- Removal of certain maps/modes from FP cycle
- Refresh button on Friends List

Those are mostly QoL improvements with a few direct implementations to FP only as the other stuff is a bigger discussion for the podcast.

[justcallme A S H]

Paul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Keep in mind that Call to Arms is what draws the PUG players into the queue. The back loaded delay is to allow people active in FP to be queued first and then the CtA fills.

Maybe reduce the lobby timer to 8mins and CtA goes off at 6mins? We spend sooooo much time waiting/loading and stuff in MWO. If we are gonna get a ghost drop, might as well get it done.


Also side question - when is the ETA for the podcast? Keen to hear it

[justcallme A S H]

Paul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Here's a quick list of stuff that can be done pulled from comments here:

- Increase health in Incursion base buildings
- Higher ticket count in Conquest
- Call to arms timer change
- Game area indicator for Friends List (QP/FP/Comp/Sol instead of just "Deployed")

Investigating:
- More than 4 drop decks
- Removal of certain maps/modes from FP cycle
- Refresh button on Friends List

Those are mostly QoL improvements with a few direct implementations to FP only as the other stuff is a bigger discussion for the podcast.

Excellent! Good start there without a doubt. Hopefully more to come

Definitely seeing Polar / Alpine domination removed would be good. And Solaris City added in!

The other big (QoL, hopefully basic) ones are the careeer Rank 20 (Loyalist) or Rank 10 (Merc). Probably one of the bigger bug bears for most that I chat too.

[The6thMessenger]

Paul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

About my statement about PvE... we do not have an AI system in MWO. That system would have to be built from scratch in order to have any resemblance of an AI opponent fighting you. Hence, something like this IS off the table for this discussion.

Again, thanks for the posts and keep 'em coming.

We have onslaught on Academy, standing enemies on battlezone.

You could change that into something like a damn Zombie mode, with waves of stock mechs coming after 4 players while shooting.

On a one-sided Incursion, it could be done with waypoints, that's just following a set of path like a routine patrol and only stopping to attack when seen.

AI doesn't need to be that pretty, just enough to give us a different thing for us to play. Besides, we're mercenaries -- or at least we were supposed to be, and that would probably explain why NPCs would only have stock mechs and have robotic waypoints and predictable combat style, because they follow protocol. While NPCs, akin to mercs, may play like unpredictable idiots.

[Spheroid]

DarkFhoenix, on 03 August 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

Tukkayid 3 to me felt more like how a faction play should be . A two or three week campaign event on some random planet , the personal challenges , the story and stats .

Solaris has a season and end of season payouts , something similar for FP would be nice . A whole season just battling over one planet .

That is far too slow. The mode needs the ability to take at least a planet a day(on multiple fronts) or the mode is not worth the time investment. Faction is supposed about reshaping the cartography of the Inner Sphere in real time.

There are dozens and dozens of worlds between the coreward edge of the periphery and Terra. The game would be shutdown before meaningful conquest occurred. It would take forever even on a smaller scale like the Forth Succession War or the Liao reconquest of the St. Ives Compact.

Edited by Spheroid, 03 August 2018 - 02:16 PM.

[Peter2k]

Hmm
Many things coming to me on this issue
Simple fixes, mmm


Remove the cost of adding players to the group
At this point I'd rather have big groups training/taking in lots of new players
Incentivize 12vs12 premade matches
Make it so that fighting a tough fight is way more worth the trouble than seal clubbing


Also incentivice actually playing FP instead of QP
The amount of time dedicated isn't little, the challenges and risks to single individuals greater
Make it worth they're time, even on a loss



If you're not forbidding trial mechs in FP then FP should have trial mechs available that are build with FP in mind
Would love a pre build drop deck for newish players
I'm sure a handful of players that have several thousand FP drops under they're belt would be willing to help out; right up to map specific mechs/builds



Unit coffers
Hands down, nothing like a quick fix comes to mind
Group owned mechs would be nice
Custom dropship (eye candy)

Group specific heraldry, paint jobs, decals that can be bought and given out as rewards bought with unit coffer
Or at least an inventory of a certain number from the store

Last group I was with had picked a fox decal and 3 distinctive colors
Something like that could be bought from unit coffers and given out to players
Maybe a certain limit of items and decals (could be expanded by MC maybe)


Personally i liked phase 2 the most, like others said, maybe roll back while keeping some new features (maps, modes and so on)


On AI
I know it's a though one, still didn't the training ground have some rudimentary AI opponents?
I remember they're ability to hit CT was uncanny.
Maybe it could be improved over time and frankly I'd rather drop against AI instead of having to wait 45 minutes let having a ghost drop.
But then maybe it won't be necessary with a handful of changes to rewards and QoL

Edited by Peter2k, 03 August 2018 - 02:25 PM.

[Brauer]

Paul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Here's a quick list of stuff that can be done pulled from comments here:

- Increase health in Incursion base buildings
- Higher ticket count in Conquest
- Call to arms timer change
- Game area indicator for Friends List (QP/FP/Comp/Sol instead of just "Deployed")

Investigating:
- More than 4 drop decks
- Removal of certain maps/modes from FP cycle
- Refresh button on Friends List

Those are mostly QoL improvements with a few direct implementations to FP only as the other stuff is a bigger discussion for the podcast.

Thanks for the update! This is definitely a good start.

[TWIAFU]

Paul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Here's a quick list of stuff that can be done pulled from comments here:

- Increase health in Incursion base buildings
- Higher ticket count in Conquest
- Call to arms timer change
- Game area indicator for Friends List (QP/FP/Comp/Sol instead of just "Deployed")

Investigating:
- More than 4 drop decks
- Removal of certain maps/modes from FP cycle
- Refresh button on Friends List

Those are mostly QoL improvements with a few direct implementations to FP only as the other stuff is a bigger discussion for the podcast.

Far as QoL changes;

It is feasible to allow for in-game VOIP to be active once the lobby is formed? Be great for pilots that are not in a premade with TS/Discord to be able to coordinate as soon as possible.

Is it possible to change the 1 minute launch countdown to two minutes?

Thank you for the feedback/discussion. If we, PGI and the players, can keep it up, changes can be made within design parameters to recapture what was 'lost' in CW.

Edited by TWIAFU, 03 August 2018 - 02:51 PM.

[GBxGhostRyder]

I have a few ideas that might help revive FP and MWO in general,

#1 Is double the armor per mech and balance the ammo to match to help balance the overpowered weapons and let players play longer minutes per battle in FP due to massive hits from multiple players on one target. Or remove the Alpha shot from the game and go to a chain fire system with delay per group cycle.

#2 Is MWO has for 5 years needed a Social lobby system (Like the old MSN Gamming Zone you ask why? Because it lets everyone in the game find each other for game info on FP battles technical information on mech loadouts and new player retention and recruitment for teams this is one of the biggest reasons MWO has not been able to retain new players.

#3 IS place two queues in FP one for 8v8 solo/new players and a 2v2-12v12 queue for 12 man premade and small groups only.

# 4 Revisit a new or updated reward system for FP or a 2 queue system.

I will have more to say if a official FP revival topic is posted by PGI.

Edited by GBxGhostRyder, 03 August 2018 - 03:05 PM.

[C H E E K I E Z]

Paul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Here's a quick list of stuff that can be done pulled from comments here:

- Increase health in Incursion base buildings
- Higher ticket count in Conquest
- Call to arms timer change
- Game area indicator for Friends List (QP/FP/Comp/Sol instead of just "Deployed")

Investigating:
- More than 4 drop decks
- Removal of certain maps/modes from FP cycle
- Refresh button on Friends List

Those are mostly QoL improvements with a few direct implementations to FP only as the other stuff is a bigger discussion for the podcast.

Please take a look at my post on page 6, about how to deal with unit coffers, unit made mech. I really think that would help improve 've a lot. Get more people into units less solo seal clubbers

[Paul Inouye]

justcallme A S H, on 03 August 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

Also side question - when is the ETA for the podcast? Keen to hear it

We finished the balance podcast yesterday and Daeron is editing and prepping for a release tonight hopefully. If not, it will be sometime in the next few days. Editing out all the "uhhh.." etc takes a while.

For the FP Podcast, we've tentatively scheduled early next week for recording and it's back in Daeron's hands for editing/release.

[Peter2k]

I also wholeheartedly agree to the VoIP in the lobby and an increase of the 1 minute timer



I'd also like to think that higher lvl in your faction should add a bonus to c-bill and maybe even MC incomes
And that loyalist faction should maybe go quite a bit more than 20, while leaving mercs still distinctively lower (maybe actually leave it at 10, loyalists definatly can use all the boost they can get)

If you'd increase the lvl cap on loyalists, maybe players need to be part of a group to go beyond 20 or something, incentivizing to group up and not to stay solo players

And finally maybe you could make the boni earned from faction play applicable on all game modes/income (QP/Solaris)



Finally
Probably not that easy, but I think it would also be helpful while were waiting to find a match in FP, that we could drop in a mech that is not in the drop deck in QP or Solaris
Or at least in Solaris as wait times and matches there should be faster done

Giving something else to do while waiting

Paul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Snip.

I also have to say, you coming over and posting is decreasing my saltiness

Appreciate it


At least it makes you feel like someone is reading the stuff we post

Edited by Peter2k, 03 August 2018 - 04:09 PM.

[Fryepod]

My only request is to make sure we can play IS vs IS when wanted and Clan VS Clan
IS vs IS was the bar none the most fun I've had in MWO.

Lore, probably could be added in some way while queuing for match. Being search-locked while waiting is misery.

My only other concern is loyalty points. Sure, major organized units could achieve the max rank across multiple factions easily. Units not as cohesive had a harder time. Pugs, forget about it. Maybe an increase I'm loyalty earned % per matches played with a faction or even simply a small trickle for multiple wins/ daily participation / maybe even a loyalty point sponsor for Sol7 so it can be earned better. Wouldnt want a nerf on the amount to reach max ranks. Just better ways to earn other than kill assists.

[Paul Inouye]

C H E E K I E Z, on 03 August 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

Please take a look at my post on page 6, about how to deal with unit coffers, unit made mech. I really think that would help improve 've a lot. Get more people into units less solo seal clubbers

I thought I mentioned the issues with a unit inventory system and after going back through all my posts.. I didn't.

The idea isn't a problem. It's something we discussed very early on in development. The technological impact/development time on backend systems is the problem. [insert picture of that guy with fuzzy hair holding his hands apart]... the backend systems that control player inventory/store purchases/transaction services/player profile data etc is a massive nest of hardwired connections. While this may seem like something that is just as simple as adding a database row to the Unit ID, it's really a lot more than that.

Let's walk through the notion that you want to buy a 'Mech for a Unit's Inventory.

Issue 1: Who's buying the 'Mech? Simple answer.. Unit Leader. Well, here's the problem... the backend services says player "Uber General Leader Guy" has just bought a Urbie K9. I'll put it in his inventory. Well that's no good.. it has to go into the Unit Inventory. There's no itemID injection path for this behavior.

Issue 2: Did Uber General Leader Guy buy it himself out of his pocket? Did you want to use Unit Coffer Money? There's no interface or transaction path (both store and the actual currency tracking/payment system) for this decision tree either.

Issue 3: Who owns the 'Mech? UnitID owns the 'Mech! UnitID does not have an inventory like a PlayerID does. On top of that, CSRs will need detailed audit information for who bought it, for what Unit, what currencies were used, time of transaction etc etc.

Issue 4: Player behavior issues/politics. You are in Unit "Smash Them All" and everyone has donated CB to buy new player "I Equipped 4 TAGs" a 'Mech he can use. The 'Mech is purchased and somehow the new guy is able to add the 'Mech to his own inventory yet still not own it. (This is another cluster of data handling that would be horrible to implement). Uber General Leader Guy decides it's going to be funny to kick everyone out and sell all inventory for his own CB gains.

Issue 5: PGI Engineers have perfected death stares.

In the above scenario.. that is on the tip of the iceberg when implementing something like this. This is why at this time it is something we cannot address due to development time.

[Will9761]

@Paul Inouye,

What are you going to do about the Role Play aspects of Faction Play? Sure there are people who are drawm into factions due to the books or because of how the symbols look, but it feels like a poor substance for FP.

Because factions do not mean squat and their is little reason to pick them unless an event is coming. Are you going to work to entice players to actually become loyalist? Because I actually want to see feuds of Davion players fighting Liao players again.

For factions, are you going to plan on adding notable personalities to enhance the FP experience? Because Factions deserve to be more than just eye candy you see on the forums or colors, decals, and camos you slap on your mech. I really want to take orders under leaders for a purpose. The Houses and Clans are nations with leaders after all, not just pieces of backstory on an intro screen.

Besides, it would be nice to be greeted by a notable personality like this:


I really hope you elevate the status and make it feel a bit lively instead of leaving FP boring.

Edited by Will9761, 04 August 2018 - 12:37 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Legit Paul - This is some of the best insight into MWO I think I've seen in my 3 years.

Totally explaining the restrictions here makes it much, much easier to give suggestions. All I can say is, please, continue explaining restrictions that limit certain ideas/suggestions and we can head to other ideas/thoughts that way.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 August 2018 - 04:55 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

justcallme A S H, on 03 August 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

Totally explaining the restrictions here makes it much, much easier to give suggestions.

And I can't detail like this on Twitter. heh

Peter2k, on 03 August 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

Custom dropship (eye candy)

I've seen this mentioned a few times. I don't know if it's even possible to dynamically change the look of the dropship when a match starts... but I do have this question... unless you're a 12 man premade from a single unit... who's decals/livery shows on the drop ship?

[creativeabyss]

I wanna third the "voip in lobby" idea, and raise it 1 "voip in group and possibly lfg, for easier pick up of players.