152 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Well one of the bigger problems has always been this self-fulfilling idea that wait times are so long so no one does FP which leads to long wait times. Obviously there are other factors but that's a big one.

[KrazedOmega]

W A R K H A N, on 05 August 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

I never got what all the stink was about when it comes to playing in solo q vs faction q and why so many choose to hide in solo. Shoot 12 mechs or shoot 48 mechs with multiple tries. 48 sounds way more fun to me. By the time a normal drop starts it’s pretty much over in under 5 minutes.

I don't "hide" in solo q. Faction play has longer wait times, longer rounds, and organised teams that rip pugs to shreds. I have no desire to subject myself to those when I can get faster more enjoyable games in solo q.

[Mystere]

Alkabides, on 05 August 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

I don’t know... do you want to be right or do you want to play a game with population? You can’t have it both ways in the current state of things unfortunately. I’d rather have a game mode where you can get matches, perhaps bring people back that have left even if it’s just for the weekend. However, your way is proven loserville at this point F loserville and any selfish B that would rather have it that way just so they can feel right but be alone whining how things suck.

So why even bother keeping factions if anyone can change them as often as they change clothes? Just officially make CW an anything-goes join-one-of-two-sides free-for-all minimally viable game mode.

Are people so desperate they'll take any scraps thrown at them?

Edited by Mystere, 05 August 2018 - 06:03 PM.

[Phlynn]

Never played FP before the event... and it's boring. Most matches are lost before the 10 minute mark and you're stuck playing it out when there is no point. So I can see why an incentive is being offered.

And you get to enjoy the joys of being spawn-camped when things go really bad...

Edited by Phlynn, 05 August 2018 - 06:38 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2018 - 04:31 PM, said:

Aside from time constraints, it is not fun for pugs to get farmed by the premades in GQ or times that 4x in FP. FP is a shark tank, and pugs hate to lose. Same reason why pugs avoid Solaris.

Umm I pugged my way to through 2x rank 20s. Solo drops a lot of the time. Yes it was brutal some days but the more I played the better I got at faction play...win or lose...the more friends I got to drop with. These days I rarely drop solo anymore...always a group to tag along with. Faster drops, more matches, more shooting, more players you can count on. And I consider myself anti social. There are plenty of groups out there to play with if one actually makes a minimal effort.

And what is to stop said pugs from getting stomped on solo and group q? I’ve had as many, if not more dismal matches in the normal q as ive had in FW.

[Humpday]

Wish they did some corny campaign stuff.


I'd be fun if they had a creative director producing scenarios for us to fight over.

Civil war stuff, clan war stuff ect...

Edited by Humpday, 05 August 2018 - 08:15 PM.

[SFC174]

W A R K H A N, on 05 August 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

Umm I pugged my way to through 2x rank 20s. Solo drops a lot of the time. Yes it was brutal some days but the more I played the better I got at faction play...win or lose...the more friends I got to drop with. These days I rarely drop solo anymore...always a group to tag along with. Faster drops, more matches, more shooting, more players you can count on. And I consider myself anti social. There are plenty of groups out there to play with if one actually makes a minimal effort.

And what is to stop said pugs from getting stomped on solo and group q? I’ve had as many, if not more dismal matches in the normal q as ive had in FW.

I think you missed the point. A lot of people don't care to play with a group. And a lot of people don't care to commit 20-30 min per match. It's a personal preference thing, but FP is a big time commitment and, with tonnage limitations, you may not get to play the mechs you want as often as you want (if you're an assault pilot, especially on the clan side, only 1 of your 4 mechs might be an assault).

I'm all for improving faction play, but at the current population size, I don't see it ever really recovering unless its at the expense of SoloQ, in which case people will ***** about match times there.

They've (PGI) got to figure out a way to make SoloQ mean something to FP if they ever want to ease people into it. I'm not sure they can without ganking what people like about Solo in the first place. Tough place to be for PGI, but they put themselves here - no one else to blame.

[Big Tin Man]

HammerMaster, on 05 August 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

Only due to candy (mc) being offered.
End of story.

Saturday night I ran into the same players for 3 matches in a row. Shouldn't have taken them that long for a cookie.

Mystere, on 05 August 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

Making faction membership even more meaningless than it already is is not what I would call progress.

Well, this is more triage than progress.

[Dragonporn]

It's not like people don't care about groups, it's more like FP in its current state doesn't offer anything drastically different from GQ or QP, there's no involvement. Faction you choose or play for doesn't matter, no BT feel at all, just two additional gamemodes and that's it. It's supposed to be some sort of "campaign", where global map matter or something. If it would have any meaning at all behind it, people would be more inclined into joining groups IMO and play for the something that has purpose.

Right now, it seems that microscopic community that's left for FP are simply into real unit vs. unit hardcore competition with occasional random pug seal clubbing, because coordination is a king in this game. It's so laughable to see folks claiming how they carry 12 mans on their shoulders, which is not possible even in concept. It's not like Call of Duty or Counter-Strike, in case someone is wondering.

El Bandito, on 05 August 2018 - 04:31 PM, said:

Aside from time constraints, it is not fun for pugs to get farmed by the premades in GQ or times that 4x in FP. FP is a shark tank, and pugs hate to lose. Same reason why pugs avoid Solaris.

You make it sound like people never lose in QP, or majority of matches aren't just plain stomps.

[Mystere]

SFC174, on 05 August 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

I think you missed the point. A lot of people don't care to play with a group. And a lot of people don't care to commit 20-30 min per match. It's a personal preference thing, but FP is a big time commitment and, with tonnage limitations, you may not get to play the mechs you want as often as you want (if you're an assault pilot, especially on the clan side, only 1 of your 4 mechs might be an assault).

I'm all for improving faction play, but at the current population size, I don't see it ever really recovering unless its at the expense of SoloQ, in which case people will ***** about match times there.

They've (PGI) got to figure out a way to make SoloQ mean something to FP if they ever want to ease people into it. I'm not sure they can without ganking what people like about Solo in the first place. Tough place to be for PGI, but they put themselves here - no one else to blame.

Replace solo queue with an "Endless War" mode that ties into CW. As people die, they get replaced by people in the queue as "reinforcements".

[El Bandito]

Dragonporn, on 05 August 2018 - 08:56 PM, said:

You make it sound like people never lose in QP, or majority of matches aren't just plain stomps.

W A R K H A N, on 05 August 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

And what is to stop said pugs from getting stomped on solo and group q? I’ve had as many, if not more dismal matches in the normal q as ive had in FW.

justcallme A S H, on 05 August 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

Same reason they lose in GroupQ as well.

It is no different in ANY game mode.
There are good players and bad ones. Nothing really splits them apart as there is not the population. Anyone carrying on about being farmed just doesn't get it, or doesn't want to do anything about it.
Neither can be helped.

At least in SQ solo pugs have 50-50 chance. They have less in GQ and FP. Plus, it is far more discouraging for the pugs, compared to SQ, to see (MS) 12-man group at the start up screen--and know what will happen, cause they are gonna get their arse kicked straight up for 20 minutes. Matches that are decided at the start are far more painful, the longer they have to drag on. We had plenty of enemy pugs discoing, and suiciding cause they hated the idea of playing against us, especially during this event. MC prize allure might be good in the short run, but in the long run PGI is exposing those clueless pugs to the merciless nature of FP, thus potentially alienating them.

Big Tin Man, on 05 August 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

Saturday night I ran into the same players for 3 matches in a row. Shouldn't have taken them that long for a cookie.

You'd be surprised how badly the pugs can get beaten up, we won plenty of matches 48-12 in this event. Sometimes we just capped fast to end the match sooner cause we felt sorry for em.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 August 2018 - 09:34 PM.

[GBxGhostRyder]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2018 - 04:31 PM, said:

Aside from time constraints, it is not fun for pugs to get farmed by the premades in GQ or times that 4x in FP. FP is a shark tank, and pugs hate to lose. Same reason why pugs avoid Solaris.

This event shows 1 thing Fp can be revived if they split FP queues solo players and 1 2 man group on each side and 4 man-12 man groups in another separate queue for FP.

For me this event has been very fun and exiting to see so many playing FP again the down side is when large premades roll small groups and solo players.

Splitting fp into 2 groups should have been done 4 years ago and MWO would not have lost so many new players.

[El Bandito]

GBxGhostRyder, on 05 August 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

This event shows 1 thing Fp can be revived if they split FP queues solo players and 1 2 man group on each side and 4 man-12 man groups in another separate queue for FP.

For me this event has been very fun and exiting to see so many playing FP again the down side is when large premades roll small groups and solo players.

Splitting fp into 2 groups should have been done 4 years ago and MWO would not have lost so many new players.

Maybe back in 2014 they could have afforded it, but population is too low for that now.

[Khobai]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

Maybe back in 2014 they could have afforded it, but population is too low for that now.

They really should try the split queues.

Its not like they can make FP worse.

And if they dont do anything about sealclubbing, its certainly not going to make FP better.

There is nothing to lose by trying. Because doing nothing is going to result in FP dying anyway.

Edited by Khobai, 06 August 2018 - 01:15 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Free MC , and other toys inflates FP population, nothing else.

Give it a week it will be back to normal, unless MC is going to be given all the time.

That is what should be taken from the stats of this event.

[Black Ivan]

PGI has put out a high bribe to get people ven play FP, that will fall down again when event is over. People just grind rewards and that is.

To keep people engaged in FP in t make it fnand people wann play it, but that understanding has not appened at PGI.

[50 50]

Mystere, on 05 August 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

So why even bother keeping factions if anyone can change them as often as they change clothes? Just officially make CW an anything-goes join-one-of-two-sides free-for-all minimally viable game mode.

Are people so desperate they'll take any scraps thrown at them?

Mystere, on 05 August 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

Replace solo queue with an "Endless War" mode that ties into CW. As people die, they get replaced by people in the queue as "reinforcements".

Based on the comments from Paul in the Faction Play thread, it seems like this is the direction it's moving.
No loyalists, no mercenaries.
Everyone is a free lancer that fills numbers in one of two sides.
Lots of other games have this approach and more of a drop in drop out endless (or at least greatly extended) battle.
MWO doesn't have the maps, modes or functionality to support it though so I don't really see where it's all going.

Throwing candy at the crowd is only ever results in a sugar rush followed shortly there after by sleeeeeeeeep.

Which is the other bit I don't understand.
Is the plan to make Faction Play just an endless series of events setup and regulated by PGI?
ie. a system that requires continual staff input instead of letting he community generate their own story and we get teh occasional sanctioned event to spice it up?

I just... what?!

I was really hoping the mode might increase it's scope and strive towards those original goals, but it seems to be going in another direction and we will only see some bandaid fixes.

[justcallme A S H]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

At least in SQ solo pugs have 50-50 chance. They have less in GQ and FP. Plus, it is far more discouraging for the pugs, compared to SQ, to see (MS) 12-man group at the start up screen--and know what will happen, cause they are gonna get their arse kicked straight up for 20 minutes

Except my WLR over 2.5 says that is simply not a 50-50 chance at all.

I can tell you how most games will end simply from what players are on what sides in YoloQ, GroupQ or Faction.

12mans don't scare me. I mean we've been beating 12 mans with 6mans for the past 2 days, MS 12-mans included, no arse kicking in sight.

It is all about player skill. Always has, always will be.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 August 2018 - 04:59 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

SFC174, on 05 August 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Well it certainly has increased SoloQ wait times for me. Given the population size, there's going to be a downside with any attempt to shift players into different modes. And the time commitment for FW will mean a significant part of the population will never want much to do with it.

Me and my mate yesterday EU daytime had to actually give up on the group q, we went 20+ mins without a game. As he didn't have a full drop deck it was enforced solo Q.

Khobai, on 06 August 2018 - 12:51 AM, said:

They really should try the split queues.

Its not like they can make FP worse.

And if they dont do anything about sealclubbing, its certainly not going to make FP better.

There is nothing to lose by trying. Because doing nothing is going to result in FP dying anyway.

But that is the same endless discussion with the only correct answer: the seals make themselves seals by insisting on super solo play. Team game is meant to be played socially, in teams not solo.
There is no dodging this.

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

At least in SQ solo pugs have 50-50 chance. They have less in GQ and FP. Plus, it is far more discouraging for the pugs, compared to SQ, to see (MS) 12-man group at the start up screen--and know what will happen, cause they are gonna get their arse kicked straight up for 20 minutes. Matches that are decided at the start are far more painful, the longer they have to drag on. We had plenty of enemy pugs discoing, and suiciding cause they hated the idea of playing against us, especially during this event. MC prize allure might be good in the short run, but in the long run PGI is exposing those clueless pugs to the merciless nature of FP, thus potentially alienating them.

You'd be surprised how badly the pugs can get beaten up, we won plenty of matches 48-12 in this event. Sometimes we just capped fast to end the match sooner cause we felt sorry for em.

Alas, a game that divided can not survive.

And, this is why Faction Play died... It wasn't "clueless pugs" alone. It was entire teams..... We would see MS, EVIL, 228 etc.... and that match, EVEN WHEN WE WON, just wasn't any fun at all.... Terrible maps, obtuse drop decks, meta everything, and the player-to-player discourse was horrific.

Entire team of "clueless pugs?" The team mates I had were here from day 1 in many cases and they weren't "clueless"...... Many of us are once and twice retired with advanced degrees.... We all just said "enough" ! There was nothing to gain in-game to justify the aberrant maps, game play and personalities. MWO became non-value added....our time is precious and our combined decision to leave was a business decision: why invest in something with no "value (fun?)

I wish I could have saved the "last team match" we had in FP as an illustration....when we decided, en masse, to leave.....

One person's fun can be or is another person's misery......the test of who's right is like a Leader board: Is MWO thriving or in decline?